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Frost DPS | Winter of Discontent [4.3]


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#561 Ripebear1

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 01:44 PM

Right now I'm sitting at 2523 Haste on Hastefrost spec. But I'm still running into problems with dry patches.

It's pushing me to change to unholy. Just practicing on a dummy, I can't get a single round of 6 million damage where I'm not hitting 2-3 dry patches and having nothing to do for a 2-3 seconds while waiting on all my runes.

If I'm following priority correctly what am I doing wrong?

Is there something fundamental I'm missing? I try to make sure I don't have 2 runes sitting capped at any time etc but still run into these.

Does everyone get this problem?
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#562 djxak

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 01:03 AM

Sometimes stars aligns and sometimes not. There are always been situations where you are starved with resources. When I played in haste (now I playing full mastery/1750haste), I dynamically changing my "roration" to HB spam (more RP -> more FS -> more runes from RE) if I feeling starved and changing back to Obli when feeling that I became gcd-capped again. Generally there is almost masterfrost priority. In "classic" priority for hastefrost you just wait for recources and hit obli again even if it means that you will wait again.

For me there is no difference betwen masterfrost and hastefrost priority. All the difference is how many haste I have and how many procs of RE and Rime. More haste = more Obli, less HB and vice versa. Maybe that is not right.. but I am always got to wol tops with my priority.

#563 zephie

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 03:47 PM

Been following this guy/gal for quite a while now and i must say i am quite impressed with his logs/playstyle.

(Armory) Softspot @ Silvermoon - Game Guide - World of Warcraft

(Logs) WoW Heroes - World of Warcraft PvE character info & ratings

He seems to be playing masterfrost as well although his DPS seems to be abnormally high comparing to others. Might be wrong.

#564 HellHamsterr

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 05:53 PM

Judging from his logs he isn't playing the usual masterfrost priority or else his HB damage would be way higher. In fact, he plays a more Obliterate oriented playstyle, which over 85% are crits. His Frost Strike crit % is way lower, which suggests he uses Killing Machine mainly on Obliterate and uses Frost Strikes to proc runic empowerment as soon as a rune set goes on cd. Also, he is specced to Epidemic instead of Imp. Blood Tap, which makes it even harder, seeing his haste.

He seems to be having insanely good RNG with Freezing Fog and Killing Machine procs and I think that about explains it. Too bad you can't see runic empowerment procs on WOL, however he can only have awesome RNG on that as well.

For example on his Ultraxion 10 heroic rank he had 70% Freezing Fog proc rate per Obliterate and 17.5 Killing Machine procs per minute, while for example myself on the same fight with much higher haste (assuming his haste remained around the same of what his armory says) I had 45% Freezing Fog proc rate per Obliterate and 15 Killing Machine ppm.

So all in all, a godlike player with excellent gear and excellent RNG.

#565 zephie

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 06:12 PM

I am 99% sure he went masterfrost a week ago so that ultraxion log probably involves a lot more haste. Not 100% sure though.

#566 Wuwho

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 04:40 PM

Been following this guy/gal for quite a while now and i must say i am quite impressed with his logs/playstyle.

(Armory) Softspot @ Silvermoon - Game Guide - World of Warcraft

(Logs) WoW Heroes - World of Warcraft PvE character info & ratings

He seems to be playing masterfrost as well although his DPS seems to be abnormally high comparing to others. Might be wrong.


I must admit this player's parses are fantastic and most likely the player is also, however not as slam against the player but if you closely inspect his/her dps numbers through some of the parses you will see why the dps is higher. I believe some of the parses have been generated with the help of the strategy and make-up of the group. For instance on Heroic Morchok, he/she does not get out of the black goo which will increase dps(e). Furthermore there is no rogue in the group, so fights like Blackhorn and Zonozz will allow this player to cleave more with HB and get more damage output for the same amount of attacks.

In regards to whether the player is MF or HF. I'm assuming you are referring to the parse from 3/23 not 5/3. On the 3/23 parse, its a bit tricky however I would have to lean toward HF or a hybrid build that allows for more haste. I say this because I compared that parse to one of my own that had similar fight lengths and that player had more melee attacks go out that landed and missed.

#567 djxak

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Posted 07 May 2012 - 11:17 AM

For instance on Heroic Morchok, he/she does not get out of the black goo which will increase dps(e).


All DKs do this. On 3-4 stacks use AMS and it absorbs next damage and prevent aplly new stacks. You finish with new 4 stacks (after AMS ends) and 50% hp. It is all without external heal. So, what reason to move away from goo?

#568 Wuwho

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 04:06 PM

I never said there was anything wrong with it. It was more of a comment about strategy and how that can change someone's dps. If you take a look at the sentence prior to your quotation along with the quoted sentence, you can see that it was in example of the situation.

I believe some of the parses have been generated with the help of the strategy and make-up of the group. For instance on Heroic Morchok, he/she does not get out of the black goo which will increase dps(e).


By the way, not all DK's stand in the goo. Personally, I have a 102 parse on H Morchok from actually standing out, however I also have an unfortunate miss-logged parse that was at least 8% higher from standing in. Once again, an example of how strategy can increase your numbers.

#569 Kapaya

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:07 PM

Hello im abit unsure with is BiS weapon for frost dk or No'Kaled, the Elements of Death{hc]
Because one of my guildmate told me it was Nokaled.Thx for the help

#570 gharnef

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:58 PM

Hello im abit unsure with is BiS weapon for frost dk or No'Kaled, the Elements of Death{hc]
Because one of my guildmate told me it was Nokaled.Thx for the help


If you're an orc, No'Kaled is the clear winner on pure single target hastefrost. If you aren't orc it's a bit closer, but in pure single target it's still the winner. The problem arises in masterfrost and AoE since while mastery does scale with 1/3 of the proc, it loses you a large chunk of strength which means that your howling blasts won't do as much. So you mostly you're going to have to base it on the fight.

For any fight without any major AoE, No'kaled is the clear winner (Morchok, Zon'ozz, Ultrax), but for fights where you'll be getting a huge boost in your dps from AoE or missing lots of melee swings due to movement (Zon'ozz, Hagara, Blackhorn, Madness) Souldrinker will be better due to stronger HBs. Spine is somewhat of a wash since SD's proc will help against the debuff a little bit and I'm not sure how their procs work (ICD / pure % ?) in relation to tendon DPS, but No'kaled's proc is very relevant if it were to proc on a tendon.

That's the long answer.

The simple answer is No'kaled.

#571 Crovax

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 12:00 PM

In my case as Orc, H HoM x2 is better than H SD x2 for MasterFrost. Just do a SimCraft check to be sure.

#572 daltonj2012

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 02:55 PM

I know this it is already late in the patch and expansion, but I've recently been really wondering about trinket BiS for DW HasteFrost. I currently have heroic Bone-Link, Heroic Creche, and reg Eye (I'm only 6/8 Heroic atm due to just server transferring off my awful progressed realm two weeka ago).. My gear has been getting a lot of changes lately because of new fights, and I was thinking about trinkets a lot lately. it says Creche is better, but I'm just wondeirng if it really is? is that Crit better than the occasionally extra hit from Bone-Link.

#573 Iysdexia

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 09:26 PM

As someone consistently ranking in the top five on most of the fights on 10man, I can confirm that a lot of the top parses are aided by group make-up and how your group does the fight (or in other words spoon feeding extra dps to the person trying to rank).

#574 HellHamsterr

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 08:50 AM

I'm using with Razor Ice for mainhand and with Fallen Crusader for offhand as masterfrost, and lately I've been using a second as offhand with Cinderglacier, swapping it from whenever Fallen Crusader is up, and popping the other one back to get a new Fallen Crusader.

Apart from wasting one GCD to swap offhands and maybe a minor decrease in Fallen Crusader uptime, I don't see anything negative about weapon swapping especially when on low resources, but my problem is that I can't sim this properly. Has anyone tried to sim this to see how big of a dps increase (or decrease) it can lead to?

I'll get some logs on Wednesday for comparison.

#575 Titus Pullo

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Posted 29 May 2012 - 02:46 PM

I'm using with Razor Ice for mainhand and with Fallen Crusader for offhand as masterfrost, and lately I've been using a second as offhand with Cinderglacier, swapping it from whenever Fallen Crusader is up, and popping the other one back to get a new Fallen Crusader.

Apart from wasting one GCD to swap offhands and maybe a minor decrease in Fallen Crusader uptime, I don't see anything negative about weapon swapping especially when on low resources, but my problem is that I can't sim this properly. Has anyone tried to sim this to see how big of a dps increase (or decrease) it can lead to?

I'll get some logs on Wednesday for comparison.


You might also consider looking at swapping out the mainhand with Razor Ice for the one with Cinderglacier once you get five stacks of Frost Vulnerability debuff up and switching it back as needed to keep up the debuff. I think that would be more damage than swapping out the offhand and losing Fallen Crusader chances.

#576 HellHamsterr

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:14 AM

So I tested both on a dummy before raiding and I concluded at least for myself that Cinderglacier weapon swapping isn't worth it.

Razor Ice main hand swapping required 2 GCDs every 18-19 seconds which is way too much, while Fallen Crusader uptime by offhand swapping seemed to be even lower than I figured. Even when used optimally, like for example only swapping offhand with Fallen Crusader up and on very low resources that makes me wait at least 1 GCD so it's making a swap supposedly worth it, both were always at least 10% damage less than not swapping (300 second test).

Now I know this may change during long aoe scenarios where you dont need to use every single GCD on howling blast asap so you can Cinderglacier with Fallen Crusader up, but even then you probably lose FC uptime and dps.

#577 Lordkirigi

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 05:45 PM

From the OP:

"Obliterate has been reduced from 160% to 150% base weapon damage (Hotfix 5/19/11)
Frost Strike now deals 130% weapon damage plus 277, up from 110% weapon damage plus 305."

Those numbers dont seem to be correct, because in game tooltips show vastly different numbers.

#578 twogurusindrag

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Posted 17 June 2012 - 09:43 PM

The talent specs no longer link to proper pages- they are all blank.

<<Working again>>




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