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Death Knight: Cataclysm Simple Q & A


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#41 Odric

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 04:23 AM

I've read the forums on here and a few other places. I've checked my gear against Mr. Robot and also asked some other DKs on my server about it. My DPS just doesn't seem as high as it should be with the gear I have. I'm DW F DK, ilvl of 376 ( non-pvp) and I do around 18-21k on FL N Bosses. Aside from not having the Wildhammer head enchant ( currently working on it, revered so far ).. Is my rotation wrong? I am on World of Logs. I am looking for any constructive criticism you guys can give me. If I am doing something wrong I want to know so I can improve my DPS / play.


World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis


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#42 CortDK

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 09:50 AM

I will admit that I am not sure whether this question counts towards the simple or towards the outright moronic... But what would a good and proper sim for estimating DPS be? I have used Rawr for gearing, but it seems to be less than accurate as far as DPS sims go.


SimulationCraft is currently quite accurate for DKs. There are no known bugs in the output it generates, however it does have a tendency to sim some 5-10% higher than what even the best players are getting in game. Whether this is an issue of rotation perfection, or some flaw in combat/proc/damage calculation is unknown.

It is the primary source for stat weights. And is good for testing talent and gear changes. As with anything outside game, results are best tested in game. The latter can be hard to do given the RNG that exists in cataclysm.

#43 huntcaudata

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 02:04 PM

I've read the forums on here and a few other places. I've checked my gear against Mr. Robot and also asked some other DKs on my server about it. My DPS just doesn't seem as high as it should be with the gear I have. I'm DW F DK, ilvl of 376 ( non-pvp) and I do around 18-21k on FL N Bosses. Aside from not having the Wildhammer head enchant ( currently working on it, revered so far ).. Is my rotation wrong? I am on World of Logs. I am looking for any constructive criticism you guys can give me. If I am doing something wrong I want to know so I can improve my DPS / play.


World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis


Odric @ Magtheridon - Game - World of Warcraft


Simple things: Your'e not hit capped, your 2 trinket choices are somewhat poor, and your glove enchant is wrong. Get Essence of Eternal Flame, macro it with Pillar of Frost and replace crushing weight with it. Use an addon or wowreforge to get as close to hit cap as possible, but remember that hit has value past the yellow cap as well. If you're having difficulty, you should also replace apparatus with License to Slay since you can use the hit some and it's a strong trinket anyway. You're not using potions, which, frankly, you don't need to for normals, but it would up your numbers. Put strength on your gloves.

Beyond that, you're making some poor choices with cooldown usage. You should not be casting Army of the Dead during the middle of the fight unless there's complete downtime, which almost no fight has. Cast it pre-pull. You definitely shouldn't be casting it during Heriosm like you did on Baleroc. You used Ghoul only once on Baleroc even though you had time to use it twice. You forgot to use pillar during Rhyolith. It looks like Horn of Winter/Battle Shout don't have 100% uptime, which they should - you very likely have the spare GCD's and casting it generates Runic Power anyway, so make sure you're doing that.

I think it's likel you're making some rotation mistakes as well. On Baleroc, Frost Fever has only 91% uptime, which should never happen as Rime procs alone should keep it up. Blood Plague has less than 60% uptime - this needs to be 99% as well. This might be the reason your Obliterate damage is so low.

You need to look at fights, determine how long they normally last for your raid and when you Heroism and plan your Pillar of Frost, ghoul, and potion usage around that. You should also take a look at the priority list in the Frost thread and make sure you're actually following it (not just this - but for instance - keeping diseases up is priority #1).

#44 Odric

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 04:38 PM

Thanks for the help. I changed up my trinkets and I redid the enchant on my hands. I also added 2 bars on my NeedToKnow addon for Blood Plague and Frost Fever, as well as a Horn of Winter. I'll see if that helps me with my Disease being on all the time. Thanks for the reply.

I do have a question about AoD. I was told that using it while Heroism is up your ghouls get a percentage of your buffs. That doesn't apply to hero as well? I was also told that using my Ghoul was "a waste of time" by a DK in Regen. He's doing FL Heroics so I assumed he knew what he was talking about. Only reason I stopped using it frequently. I always saw it as added DPS if nothing else.

#45 Illundai

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 07:05 PM

Ghouls do significant damage over time actually, so that DK is either dumb or was trolling you. For example take our Ragnaros kill this week: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

My Ghoul did 600k damage, yes Ragnaros is a long boss but I'd say that's quite significant. Just make sure that you use Pillar of Frost first. Using a Ghoul without PoF first is a big no no. Ideally you line it up with other STR procs as well.

#46 Odric

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 11:33 PM

I will keep using my ghoul, I figured it added a reliable amount of DPS as well.. it just seemed odd not to use something that acts independently. Like Dancing Rune Weapon, it's more DPS that you don't have to control. So yea, I agree it's a plus.

#47 Pintofbrew

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 11:16 AM

Ghoul serves a very critical purpose, when you activate Pillar about 4-7 seconds in, you'll hit a small lul where there's nothing to cast, all your runes are cooling, there's not much RP, or there is RP but you're >1s away from another rune and want to Rime-OB instead. Then is the time to drop a Ghoul. Having a ghoul go off when there's Bloodlust and combining it with a Str trink like Essence and a strength pot and he tears faces.

Army is a totally different story; Army is a colossal waste of time to channel and does negligible damage compared to a ghoul. The only time Army is debatably useful is during downtime, like when Rag drops his hammer just before sons come up, or in BoT when the 4 elements combine to form captain planet. Even then, Army is nearly trivial in it's output, at best around 100k. There are technical points where army is brilliant, however, because they still do taunt adds. I'm told you can cheese a Son at Rag with an army, but I haven't tried.

#48 EwokChilli

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 03:25 PM

@Odric

I looked at your WoL report for Shannox (since you should be doing single target for that entire fight). You have 84x HB and only 55x OBs. So, either you're trying some wonky shadowfrost priority with a low Mastery value (which you should reforge much higher if this is the case) or you're hitting HB for times other than Rime (which again is bad unless you're doing AoE, which you shouldn't be for Shannox).

#49 ikool

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 11:38 PM

Hi there,

i got the following Question :

My DW DK can get +95 Haste Rating through another possible Reforging,
but will loose -46 Mastery Rating, -42 Hit Rating and -7 Expertise Rating.
I think that sounds very good, but there is one Problem. My Expertise is
actually 782, so it will be 6 Points below the Softcap.

So whats the better Deal ? More Haste & Slightly below the Expertise-Cap or beeing Capped with some less Haste ?


Thanks for any Suggestions

#50 Ascar

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 12:01 AM

Hi there,

i got the following Question :

My DW DK can get +95 Haste Rating through another possible Reforging, but will loose -46 Mastery Rating and -7 Expertise Rating.



the point of reforging is to trade one stat for the same amount of another, how can u gain 42 rating (95-(46+7)) through reforging, you are missing something.

to your question: 6 mastery below the softcap is okay if you gain enough haste as a trade for mastery/haste/crit.

#51 ikool

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 12:34 AM

Thx for your Reply,

im not missing something, i just have not inluded the Hit Rating that i would loose, it dont matters in my Situation.
But i will edit the Post to clarify it. So with 6 Mastery i think u did mean the Expertise, can you tell me why exatly
u would choose that Way of Reforge?

#52 nergal119

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 11:37 AM

For DW Frost reforging, you only have two constraints:

Expertise:
Try to have as close to 781 expertise rating as possible, with slightly above being preferable to below, given you might end up in front of bosses at times.

Hit:
Have at least 601 hit rating for strikes to not miss, but if you can't reforge it all away it doesn't hurt as much as 820 is where your spells stop missing and 2883 is where your melee swings stop missing.
Essentially the strike cap is what you are aiming for as hit loses most of its value afterwards, then loses more after the spell hit cap, so don't even bother going for the melee cap.

So reforge all you want so long as you follow these guidelines, with everything going to haste then mastery if it already has haste. (certain fights prefer mastery, though don't ask me which since I don't bother tweaking for them)

#53 Meygaera

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 03:04 AM

I have a question for AoE'ing the adds in phase 2 Ragnaros. Sometimes in 25man it is hard to tell exactly where the add your targeting is standing and I have trouble facing the right way to use howling blast. Is it possible to simply target and attack rag and hit him with howling blast and will it hit the adds too? Does anyone have any tips on this?

#54 Predrag

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:57 AM

Is it possible to simply target and attack rag and hit him with howling blast and will it hit the adds too?


Nope, that doesn´t work.

Does anyone have any tips on this?


I use a simple target macro for aoeing the adds.

#showtooltip howling blast
/tar molten elemental
/cast howling blast

#55 Probaton

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 11:01 AM

Is it possible to simply target and attack rag and hit him with howling blast and will it hit the adds too?


Although Rag seems all up in your face he's actually too far away to even tab to when you're standing at the edge of the platform (try it sometime) and is only hittable due to his huge hitbox. As such he is waaaaay too far away to hit the adds with Howling Blast aoe.

If you're really having trouble finding the add in front of you there's always the addon tidyplates, which clears up the chaos considerably if configured correctly. Alternatively, you could position yourself at the edge of the aoe circle. That way (almost) all adds should be standing in front of you anyway as long as you're facing inward. Just make sure you're not standing out of aoe-healing range.

#56 JustinP

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:49 PM

It really depends on what your haste is to be honest. If you have fairly high haste, which Unholy does, I would go with the Crit bonus.

#57 padfoot

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 05:33 PM

Hi guys, as most of the others here, I come here looking for help. I've tried running a haste-heavy and mastery-heavy gear set to see which will improve my DPS the most. I'm mostly frustrated because I don't lack in gear, I have high up-times on the boss, don't let my diseases fall off...etc., but I feel like I'm still having a huge DPS lack. Especially in comparison to another death knight in my group, who primarily tanks, but on bosses like Baleroc/Domo, gets to go DPS - and he keeps up to par with me even though I have way more gear than him. As stated above.....it's incredibly frustrating because I can't figure out if I'm doing something wrong. Here are my WoL charts as well as my armory - I'd appreciate any help I can get. :(

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Possession @ Silver Hand - Game - World of Warcraft

Thanks in advance.

#58 Illundai

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 02:07 AM

Hi guys, as most of the others here, I come here looking for help. I've tried running a haste-heavy and mastery-heavy gear set to see which will improve my DPS the most. I'm mostly frustrated because I don't lack in gear, I have high up-times on the boss, don't let my diseases fall off...etc., but I feel like I'm still having a huge DPS lack. Especially in comparison to another death knight in my group, who primarily tanks, but on bosses like Baleroc/Domo, gets to go DPS - and he keeps up to par with me even though I have way more gear than him. As stated above.....it's incredibly frustrating because I can't figure out if I'm doing something wrong. Here are my WoL charts as well as my armory - I'd appreciate any help I can get. :(

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
Possession @ Silver Hand - Game - World of Warcraft

Thanks in advance.


At first glance you need to prioritize OB more than FS, as DW your OB damage should outweigh your FS in almost every situation.

#59 eredor

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 09:29 AM

In AOE situations in the main hand, will an Elementium-Edged Scalper with cinderglacier do more damage than an Obsidium Cleaver with rune of razorice despite the 13 ilvl difference?

#60 Dev93L

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 08:55 PM

I want to make sure I understand Frost priority completely. I read the priority system many times.

As I understand it, we Obliterate whenever the button for it is lit up. This is to maximize Rime and Runic Empowerment, because more spells/attacks are better. This is assuming you have diseases up and you are not RP capped of course.

I've previously been sitting on runes for Obliterate to try and line KM procs up. I did this when I had 1-2 pairs up. I did not do this when all 3 were up. I did a dummy test the my way, and did a dummy test with hitting Obliterate as many times as I possibly could, regardless of munching KM to FS, and I went from 11,xxx DPS to 13,xxx DPS. I know dummies are not accurate, but I would assume the damage increase trend is. I believe I understand now, but I just want someone to let me know I am not over simplifying it.




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