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[Cataclysm] Best Possible DPS with Rivkah's DPS Analyzer (femaledwarf.com)


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#41 Ðaddy

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 07:25 PM

If you changed the Shot priority of the MM (Aimed) template to:

CS > KS >Rpd Fire > Readiness > SpS > Aimed > Steady

It pushes the combined DPS to 40670.13 - an increase of 130.32.


The same is true for survival. Moving RF down to a lower priority than SpS and BA will increase the DPS slightly (mostly due to Noxious Stings I assume). This means Warper's template will end up at 36066.96 DPS. Very minor increase but still.

On a somewhat related note the low numbers for survival really make me sad.

EDIT: Actually probably due to more time for RF hasted Cobra Shot cycles since you won't have to spend GCDs putting up DoTs.

#42 Eurytos

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 04:18 PM

I think it's also worth noting that the latency has very adverse effects on various specs, for example for myself as i am playing from SEA region and have a ping of around 300, the following will happen with 300ms added into the FD settings:


If your latency around 300ms then go into your Interface > Combat settings in WoW and change "Custom Lag Tolerance" to around 400ms. This will largely negate most adverse effects of latency as far as your rotation goes.

Updated OP with the rotation changes. It's kind of odd actually. It causes RF to be used at the end of the Chimera GCD instead of the beginning of it even though it's off CD at the start. Possibly an unintended but positive behavior.
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#43 Shnuggles

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 06:15 PM

Point of curiosity here as I work to understand Zeherah's tool a little bit more thoroughly:

The biggest hurdle I've been working to overcome is in making Whitefyst's MM guide/theorycrafting mesh with the extreme high end gear used in the profiles mentioned in this thread-- trying to apply the theory being displayed here to the core being described by Whitefyst.

My current curiosity is the "Save Focus For: (Explosive, CS, KC)" drop down menu under shot prioritiy. In my current gear, with the same prioritiy, saving focus for nothing (not selected) is a 2189 dps loss, whereas in the test profile, it's a 586 dps GAIN. Is this all as a direct function of my current setup being on the lower end of haste? I'm just looking to understand the mechanic a bit more soundly before I take on any major changes.

#44 Rivkah

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 06:31 PM

My current curiosity is the "Save Focus For: (Explosive, CS, KC)" drop down menu under shot prioritiy. In my current gear, with the same prioritiy, saving focus for nothing (not selected) is a 2189 dps loss, whereas in the test profile, it's a 586 dps GAIN. Is this all as a direct function of my current setup being on the lower end of haste? I'm just looking to understand the mechanic a bit more soundly before I take on any major changes.


The "save focus for" option basically exists to get around the fact that the simulation can't accurately predict your future focus regen (since it can vary based on what shots you use as well as other factors). By enabling it, it makes sure that you don't use focus consuming shots unless you have enough spare afterwards that you'll be able to use your key shot when you need it.

Since this feature doesn't fully reflect how we make quick judgements on shot usage, the effectiveness of it will vary depending on the scenario. Sometimes using the feature will lead to you wasting focus because you end up overpooling when you would have normally regenned enough focus in time to use your good shot. Sometimes turning off the save focus will lead to you delaying your special shots. So you really just have to look and see what the effect is in your case (you can turn on the debug option to see how your shots are actually affected by your settings).

#45 Kushana

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 06:59 PM

My Survival DPS of 36202 (post 26) is still better than Daddy's. However, it does not respond well to his fix, losing 250dps in the process.

#46 Ðaddy

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 12:53 AM

True, interestingly enough giving Serpent Sting a higher prio than RF will yield the same result but when you give Black Arrow a higher prio than RF it's a DPS loss. Not that any of this matters but still.

#47 Eurytos

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 06:59 PM

My Survival DPS of 36202 (post 26) is still better than Daddy's. However, it does not respond well to his fix, losing 250dps in the process.


I somehow missed that. Did you edit it with a higher dps setup? If so, please post a new thread instead of editing an old one when you have improvements.

I updated the OP with your setup. That being said, it is loaded with inefficiencies so I know it can be improved upon. Right off the bat I can see that you're 4 over the hit cap, using Bloodlust at 50%, using crit+hit shoulders, and have +20 Agi/+20 Hit gem in your belt for only a +10 Agi socket bonus. All of these can be tweaked to gain more DPS, I just don't have the time to work on it at the moment.
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#48 Kushana

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:43 PM

I somehow missed that. Did you edit it with a higher dps setup? If so, please post a new thread instead of editing an old one when you have improvements.

I updated the OP with your setup. That being said, it is loaded with inefficiencies so I know it can be improved upon. Right off the bat I can see that you're 4 over the hit cap, using Bloodlust at 50%, using crit+hit shoulders, and have +20 Agi/+20 Hit gem in your belt for only a +10 Agi socket bonus. All of these can be tweaked to gain more DPS, I just don't have the time to work on it at the moment.


I did originally post it with a lower dps and then update it, but it was only 46 dps lower than the 36,202.

I fixed a couple of things you indicated (belt gem and over hit cap), and got it up to 36,214.06.

#49 Striken7

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 12:40 AM

Here is a BM setup at 37373.32.

Checked Don't overlap BW and RF, and moved BW to the top of the priority.

Changed the time of Hero/BL to 50%.

Reforged a bit out of Haste and into Crit and got an increase there as well.

#50 Haero91

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 11:45 PM

Changing cloak enchant from +65 crit to +22 agi gives another 13.64 DPS for Survival, if that even means something...

#51 Stìlgar

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 02:39 AM

What is the purpose of this thread? Would it offer any insight on what to actually do or how to prepare for any boss fight, even a target dummy? Forgive me if this seems obtuse or if I'm being dense, but I don't see how this could compliment what is already posted in the other threads. In other words, should I start prioritizing haste over crit for an arcane dump build? I think this generates too much hypothetical discussion that may detract from or conflict with real boss fights.

#52 Nerec

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 05:34 AM

What is the purpose of this thread? Would it offer any insight on what to actually do or how to prepare for any boss fight, even a target dummy? Forgive me if this seems obtuse or if I'm being dense, but I don't see how this could compliment what is already posted in the other threads. In other words, should I start prioritizing haste over crit for an arcane dump build? I think this generates too much hypothetical discussion that may detract from or conflict with real boss fights.


If you dont can get information through comparison between BIS + glyph and your armory, between recommended shootcycle / priosystem or between gemming, reforge and enchants - then this thread is meaningless for you. For other people this provide information for high end gear values, playstyle and itemization.

Whytefist also states that he will update his guide, because of a missing high haste Aim part that here get good results and can be played with reachable gear. A discussion between real fights and there impact on Aim or AS dump has every to take for himself or wait for whytefist to let him do so.

#53 Whitefyst

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Posted 07 October 2011 - 06:13 AM

I have been meaning to update the guide for this case for a while but have been busy and had hoped that the posts in the MM thread would be sufficient; however, since the posts are now a couple pages back, it seems people are missing them.

I have updated the recommendations section in the MM guide to talk about the case. In addition, here are links to the posts discussing it:

1) Initial post after the Best DPS Thread started is here.

2) Follow on post answering question on ideal haste cap for a tight CS cycle for the AI hardcast case and where I conclude that there really is not a good feasible one is here. Hence, the goals are as stated in the updated MM guide. Get enough haste to allow Matrix Restabilizer to always proc haste and where your AI casts are sufficiently hasted during haste trinket procs.

3) This post explains taking the Best Possible DPS thread in context and some of the benefits it provides. In it I provide an analysis with my current gear at the time. As my gear as improved and I have obtained Matrix, I have gravitated to doing more and more AIs but still doing a decent number of ASs when I think it is necessary to do so (moving, interruption/pushback threats, out of range of melee haste totem, ect.).

There are other discussions on this case around as well.

#54 Kushana

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Posted 17 October 2011 - 02:41 PM

I got Surv to 36,222.66, superior to the OP Surv build that gives 36215.37 (claimed) or 36201.73 (actual).

#55 Haero91

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 02:14 AM

I got Surv to 36,222.66, superior to the OP Surv build that gives 36215.37 (claimed) or 36201.73 (actual).


Actual DPS for the OP Survival build is 36215.37 with cloak enchant changed from +65 crit to +22 agility, which just isn't updated in the link.

#56 Kushana

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Posted 18 October 2011 - 02:55 PM

Part of the weirdness around haste has to do with the haste plateaus of the simulation. For example, in my current best Surv build, there are 261 discrete events in the simulation. That represents a plateau until I can fit 262 in, that is, an extra shot. As a result, in most cases adding 1 haste to my build gives +0.5dps. In fact, only when I add 200 haste to my build do I see any reasonable average haste benefit, and even then it's only about 1.4dps/haste, far short of the 2-3 shown by the spreadsheet.

This gives rise to a couple of observations. One is that people may want to extend their simulation to, say, 10 or 15 minutes. While this is a poorer simulation of an actual boss fight, it does gives a smoother gradient for comparing haste to other stats.

The second observation is that a large chunk of the benefit of haste comes from fitting extra shots into a given fight. If you are in fights where you are losing shots due to mechanics, poor behaviour, or any other reason, you should be lowering the relative value of haste.

#57 Shadowwaltz

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 02:37 AM

I agree with all of that Kushana. There's definitely situations where you would want to use 20 agi/20 crit gems in yellow slots instead of 20 haste even tho haste sims higher than crit. There's also times you should reforge a piece or two out of haste and into crit.

But even with all that said, haste is still the best stat and you want more haste than anything else.

#58 Whitefyst

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Posted 24 October 2011 - 11:14 AM

The second observation is that a large chunk of the benefit of haste comes from fitting extra shots into a given fight. If you are in fights where you are losing shots due to mechanics, poor behaviour, or any other reason, you should be lowering the relative value of haste.


This is true, but it is also true that the same scenario lowers the relative value of all of your other stats as well.

Less shots, means less chances to crit. Less chances to crit means less of the bonus damage, especially with PS and the meta bonuses. It also means less GftT and Sic'Em procs lowering pet WH uptime and DPS.

Less shots means less chances to proc WQ, lowering the value of mastery.

If you are losing a chunck of shots due to mechanics, then that pretty much affects all stats roughly the same. You are not doing anything at all during that period (except maybe autos which provides some value to crit and mastery but also to haste since it affects the frequency). Once that period is over, you should be back to normal.

Losing shots to poor behaviour affacts all stats as well.

The only cases I can think of that lowers the value of haste more that it does other stats are fights with a lot of movement where we are forced to use a lot more ASs than AIs so that we are performing a smaller percentage of shots affected by haste or AoE situations where our predominate shot is instant cast MS. AoE situations really favor crit and mastery over haste.

#59 TrevvyTrev

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 03:58 PM

If you are losing a chunck of shots due to mechanics, then that pretty much affects all stats roughly the same. You are not doing anything at all during that period (except maybe autos which provides some value to crit and mastery but also to haste since it affects the frequency). Once that period is over, you should be back to normal.


True, but the really interesting thing is that the spreadsheet shows haste to be far and away the most valuable secondary stat (it even exceeds AGI in the model spec) even for BM, and for BM the value of haste vs. mastery changes significantly based on mechanics. Mechanics that cause hunters to lose shots don't always cause pets to lose uptime and vice versa. Also, as you mentioned AOE would favor mastery (with the use of an AOE pet) over haste.

#60 Guest_adamjmac_*

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 09:57 PM

Moving Rapid Fire down the shot priority to just before Cobra Shot (so that you only cast it when you are low on focus) gives +112 dps.




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