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Lady Vashj


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#21 Rikktor

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 10:28 PM

We've found that Warlocks are the best at killing elementals, just put on Corruption, Siphon Life, and CoA and the water elementals are dead before they reach Vashj; soloing Tainted Elementals isn't hard, either. I've covered NW, W, and SW without too many problems unless I get 2 Tainted spawns in my area consecutively, then I start to fall behind on water elementals, but the melee who are killing Nagas can help play catch up.

The only problem we've found with stacking too many melee in the raid is the damage they take, especially in phase 3. Almost all of the spore bats shoot poison clouds onto them, combine that with an entagle+static charge and somebody is going to die.

We use an elemental shaman to kite the Striders, and then a shadow priest with 3 mages helping him. Frost shock and mind flay keep it slowed, and the shaman is able to generate a considerable amount of threat.

#22 Jager

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 10:41 PM

Hunters are by far the best elemental killers. Long range, fast attacks, and a pet makes for a side clear of elementals very fast. I'll probably have us try all melee on naga, all non-hunter ranged on striders, and all hunters (we had 4 on our kill yesterday) on elementals next week with the info re: the cleave - seems a lot more efficient than what we've been doing.


If we had 4 hunters in our raid I'd do the exact same thing, maybe with the help of one extra person.

#23 Hate Monkey

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Posted 01 June 2007 - 10:50 PM

I see people talking about the transition Phase 2 -> Phase 3, Phase 2 itself, but one thing I don't see, is people handling Phase 3.

Of the videos I have seen, Vashj is tanked in the middle of her platform just like Phase 1, melee in the middle, casters spread out around, but the problem there arises when the "enrage" timer comes about, you get poison globs going everywhere making it impossible to move without taking damage.

One thing my guild did, is tanked Vashj on the outer ring moving her around it, with the casters in the center, melee on her tail. This positioning allows for the raid to not break down when that "enrage" timer is met. When we still had bad transitions to Phase 3, we could still last over 1-2 minutes past when she should die just because the poison bolts were concentrated into 2 areas, and still lots of open room.

That allows for a little more sloppiness on the transition and still pull out a kill.

#24 Igniter

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 12:50 AM

Was going to make a paint drawing, but it seems totally worthless to. It's quite possible to have melee dominate their spawns. We had myself and two rogues on a side, and the WF totem was in the middle. With it they soloed their own tainted elementals while keeping up with their own spawns.

#25 Vodrin

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 12:57 AM

Is group looting the cores with loot threshold poor/common clever use of game mechanics or cheating?

#26 Praetorian

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 12:58 AM

Was going to make a paint drawing, but it seems totally worthless to. It's quite possible to have melee dominate their spawns. We had myself and two rogues on a side, and the WF totem was in the middle. With it they soloed their own tainted elementals while keeping up with their own spawns.

It's obviously possible for a melee class to control a quadrant. No one has said otherwise. All the guilds that learned phase 2 pre-2.1 did it this way.

My only point is that over the course of 4.25 minutes or however long phase 2 lasts, mobs will spawn with a total hp of X. All of those need to die, and the only way to accomplish that is to deal X damage total. Ideally you want to do as much of X as possible within that 4.25-minute period so that you can focus on Vashj herself in Phase 3.

A rogue can kill elementals, and can contribute a fair bit towards X in that setting. But I don't think it's arguable that the rogue would be doing much more damage if he were perfectly stationary for 35 seconds, with totems and battle shout and maybe LotP, performing efficient skill cycles on a fully sundered and debuffed mob. A rogue who runs from elemental to elemental killing them as they spawn is going to contribute less to X than a rogue who stays on an Elite and then spends 3 seconds turning to the new one as it arrives.

On the other hand, a hunter who stands in the middle of a wide swath of the stairs, sending his pet on elementals and pretty much constantly shooting something, is also going to be doing less damage than he would be doing if he were stationary in the middle, with his pet on the Elite, and shooting Elites/Striders. But the damage difference for him will be smaller than for the rogue.

You don't take rogues off elemental duty because they're bad at it. You do it because they're even better at naga duty.

#27 ikillyouheal

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 01:06 AM

We used 6 melee covering the elemental spawns, 5 rogues 1 fury warrior. We also used one 50/11/0 specced mage kiting the striders and building threat while the other casters nuked the Naga, when the Naga was low, they moved on to the strider and killed it.

She is still a very bugged boss, Striders spawning and roaming into "evade-spots" causing her to regen back 30% HP, and after that she would stand in the middle throwing Forked Lightning at people while NOT being 'immune', hitting people in melee. We suffered from alot of random disconnects aswell, dont know if that's her fault or if it's their sloppy connection.

Needless to say, one of the more interesting fights I've seen so far.
[04:04:29] <Malan> Kaubel just laid the smack down in the the blizzcon thread
[04:05:07] <Kaubel> fucking idiots. i need to go on a banning rampage and put things right once and for all.
[04:05:20] <Kaubel> our forums are infested with pussy.

#28 Demi9OD

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 02:27 AM

We haven't really changed our setup since the 2.0 attempts, but looking at these assignments makes me think it might not be all that optimal. We have melee cover water elementals and tainted. Warlocks, Mages, and Shadowpriests do all the work on striders/elites, striders kited with CoEx (one unsalved afflic lock), mind flay, and HoJ. When she respawns we usually have 1-2 elites still up, but there certainly are not any water elementals that have made it through. We've found it more productive to simply offtank the elites for the duration of stage 3, assign 3 long ranged dps to bats (hunters, fire mages), and everyone else pounds on Vash. Never have reached the soft enrage.

#29 Hate Monkey

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 02:35 AM

Hot fix just went live for Vashj phase2.

- During Phase 2 of the Lady Vashj encounter in Serpentshrine Cavern, there was a significant chance that a Coilfang Strider could spawn at a particular point that would cause the creature to evade. The Strider evading would then reset the entire encounter prematurely. We've made a modification to the spawn point that should prevent this behavior.



#30 jaske

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 03:48 AM

Im not sure if people know, but you can put group loot on and change it with a script to make the spawns "group lootable", seeing as we tank naga's in the middle we just have a tank roll need and pop it in whilst everyone else passes. Clever use of game mechanics?

/script SetLootThreshold(0)

#31 Sebudai

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 04:03 AM

I'm sure that is the intended strategy, otherwise they would have given you some way to throw the Tainted Core to another player...

But yeah, I'm sure a lot of guilds will call it a clever use of game mechanics to make themselves feel better about exploiting something that is so obviously not intended.

#32 Praetorian

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 04:24 AM

I found that hilarious when I first heard about it, and I think most of my raid group did too. Obviously it's an exploit, and not something I'd actually do, but I still find it funny. Throwing the Cores isn't exactly particularly challenging, though. (Except for that one time someone threw a Core to the warlock kiting striders... pure genius I tell you.) If you're going to exploit, you may as well get some real advantage out of it.

Also what happens when someone d/c's and you have to wait for their roll to time out...?

#33 Vodrin

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 04:24 AM

its worse than hydross nature zerg, and not simple to fix.

They could have the tainted elementals drop an object which is scripted so that when interacted with, gives the tainted core to the interactor and dissapears (like soulwell). No loot box therefore no loot rules. Hotfixable?

(we killed using nature zerg so i'm not acting innocent)

Also what happens when someone d/c's and you have to wait for their roll to time out...?

Yep a long wait for timeout message.

#34 Sebudai

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 04:29 AM

Throwing the Cores isn't exactly particularly challenging, though. (Except for that one time someone threw a Core to the warlock kiting striders... pure genius I tell you.)


We had someone throw a core to one of our warlocks(Rikktor!) when his bags were completely full once. That was sweet.

#35 Bokchoy

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 06:00 AM

The obvious:
Phase 1 is stupidly easy.
Phase 3 is basically a check to see if you have survived Phase 2 with 20+ players up.
Phase 2 is the entire fight.

The way I see this fight, the hardest part of the fight is allocating your DPS classes to the appropriate adds based on their strengths, and maximizing DPS. I think Warlocks are great for Elementals. I know a lot of guilds prefer melee, but for a single player to provide a wide area of coverage, having ranged attacks is a huge plus. Also, DoTs do the most damage in relation to its casting time.

#36 Drakul

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 06:05 AM

Do most guilds put DPS on the bats or just leave them alone completely.

We went into Phase 3 with 25 up and 3 nagas (one at 15%) up, we burned down the nagas as fast as possible and went onto Vashj, we wiped at 11% enrage and I felt we lost a lot of damage due to the melee and the rest of the raid having to move around so frequently.

#37 heel

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 06:16 AM

Im not sure if people know, but you can put group loot on and change it with a script to make the spawns "group lootable", seeing as we tank naga's in the middle we just have a tank roll need and pop it in whilst everyone else passes. Clever use of game mechanics?

/script SetLootThreshold(0)


This is pretty much the funniest thing I've ever heard. Not sure if it's even worth the trouble to do it, though, considering how often we have someone offline.

#38 Snowy

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 06:16 AM

To me it's just an issue of mobility. Ranged can take down pretty much any elemental without having to move at all. Warlocks, as noted, are extremely efficient at just dotting them up and letting them die on their own accord. I'm hanging out near Vashj DPS'ing Striders for the most part, but it's trivial for me to toss in a SWD on any that look like they are going to make it.

#39 Arnive

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 07:23 AM

its worse than hydross nature zerg, and not simple to fix.

How is something that has such a minor effect on the fight worse than something that completely changed it's nature?

Throwing cores is easy - not throwing cores is even easier. Not a huge difference between doing it one way or the other, except missing out on a bit of fun.

#40 Wintern

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 07:30 AM

Both are exploits, one has been fixed, the other will be fixed.




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