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Patch 4.3 - Warlock Discussion


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#21 TheQwertiest

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 05:00 PM

Yeah I have no dispute with the simulation itself, I should have quoted specifically what I was responding to:

All I'm saying is that the quoted 1100 DPS loss from the DG is tied specifically to the fight length of 7.5 minutes, and that for shorter fight lengths (or if using 2-piece T13) the DG bugfix is a much bigger loss.


Uhm, but there is no DPS loss:
T12H	        4.2      PTR    Delta
Total w/ DG	37519	 39418	5.06%
Total w/o DG	34580	 37567	8.64%

4.3 gives us 2k dps even with DG nerf. And even w/o using DG in 4.3 your dps will be the same as in 4.2 with DG =)

Hm... Could it be that you're referring to this line only:
Doomguard	2939	 1851	-37.02%

Sry for misunderstanding in that case =)

#22 Xayide

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Posted 05 October 2011 - 05:28 PM

Uhm, but there is no DPS loss:

T12H	        4.2      PTR    Delta
Total w/ DG	37519	 39418	5.06%
Total w/o DG	34580	 37567	8.64%

He means that the DG is responsible for far more DPS in shorter fights, thus its nerf becomes larger if you sim shorter fights. In the same way, for 2-pc T13 the DG will be responsible for relatively more DPS than for T12 (on fights longer than 6min). Bottom line, the nerf can be larger than was implied depending on fight length and on the presence T13 2-pc.

#23 netsach

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Posted 06 October 2011 - 07:10 AM

what are the scale factors for PTR fixes?


I totally forgot, i'll add them here now :

Warlock_Demonology_T12H_ptr :  DPS/Int = 3.7436
       Int   = 1.0000(0.0253)  SP      = 0.7817(0.0253)
       Hit   = 0.7758(0.0254)  Crit    = 0.4523(0.0252)
       Haste = 0.5749(0.0251)  Mastery = 0.5871(0.0255)


#24 Seiru

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 05:33 PM

More changes (10/13):

-Soul Fire now scales with 72.6% of spell power, up from 62.5%

Demo:
-Master Demonologist now grants a base bonus of 18.4% (down from 20%) and 2.3% (down from 2.5%) per mastery, up from 16% and 2% per mastery.
-Impending Doom is now also activated by Soul Fire.

Destro:
-Cataclysm now increases Fire damage by 30%, up from 25%.
-Fire and Brimstone now increases the damage of Incinerate and Chaos Bolt on Immolated targets by 5/10/15%, up from 2/4/6%.
-Burning Embers now deals damage equal to 25/50% of Soul Fire and Imp’s Firebolt, up from 15/30%.
-Buning Embers damage cap has been raised.
-Shadowburn now deals Shadowflame damage, instead of Shadow damage.
-Improved Soul Fire now lasts 20 sec, up from 15sec.

#25 Jahrasta

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Posted 13 October 2011 - 06:54 PM

More changes (10/13):

-Soul Fire now scales with 72.6% of spell power, up from 62.5%

Demo:
-Master Demonologist now grants a base bonus of 18.4% (down from 20%) and 2.3% (down from 2.5%) per mastery, up from 16% and 2% per mastery.
-Impending Doom is now also activated by Soul Fire.

Destro:
-Cataclysm now increases Fire damage by 30%, up from 25%.
-Fire and Brimstone now increases the damage of Incinerate and Chaos Bolt on Immolated targets by 5/10/15%, up from 2/4/6%.
-Burning Embers now deals damage equal to 25/50% of Soul Fire and Imp’s Firebolt, up from 15/30%.
-Buning Embers damage cap has been raised.
-Shadowburn now deals Shadowflame damage, instead of Shadow damage.
-Improved Soul Fire now lasts 20 sec, up from 15sec.


Missed the removal of the previous Demonic Knowledge change.


  • Demonology

  • Demonic Knowledge now provides a damage bonus of 20%, up from 15%.



#26 netsach

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Posted 15 October 2011 - 09:37 AM

As of svn build 9896, T12H profile shows the following results (i haven't done any destro prio list / stats update)

Edit: please delete or ignore, the PTR sim with scale factors is available here from the official site

#27 netsach

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:54 AM

PTR 14899 : (destro) Cataclysm now increases Fire spell damage by 25%, down from 30%.
PTR 28/10 : (pet) The Voidwalker ability Suffering now works like the hunter pet talent Taunt.

#28 Dastey

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:34 AM

I guess the cataclysm nerf should put destro down to around 36,2 - 36,4k again. Making it clearly the worst specc of them al. On another note there has been reports that corruption has recieved an 8% stealth nerf on the PTR. Guess we will have to test if this is the case cause this will bring down all warlock speccs.

#29 zinnin

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 06:25 PM

I guess the cataclysm nerf should put destro down to around 36,2 - 36,4k again. Making it clearly the worst specc of them al. On another note there has been reports that corruption has recieved an 8% stealth nerf on the PTR. Guess we will have to test if this is the case cause this will bring down all warlock speccs.


Just tested corruption got the exact same hits on both live and PTR.

I noted this in the simcraft thread, but they made Shadow Embrace effect Bane of Doom and the 12% more damage from Deaths Embrace is now starting at 25% instead of 35%.

#30 plopinou

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 04:03 AM

Incinerate on the PTR seems to do a lot more damage than in simulationcraft.
Was it buff ?

Simulating 10mn DPS on a dummy boss with my gear gives me an average hit of 13644 and an average crit of 28984.
But on the PTR, while my soul fires and conflagrates hits for the sames values than the simulation, my incinerates are hitting for ~ 15850 and critting for 33400, which is a nice +16% dmg.

Anyone can confirm this ?

#31 senraven

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 06:48 PM

So I'm trying to figure something out. Originally it was (for demonology spec) the t13 2pc would boost your summon time by 45 sec and 15 sec for non-demonology and now it's 20 sec for demonology and 30 for non-demonology? Am I getting this correctly? Was there any talk of why the change and why all of the sudden instead of demonology getting a benefit it's now being penalized?

#32 Klavarnae

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 11:19 PM

In what way is it getting penalized? It's ptr stuff which usually gets changed. Demonology doomguards are already superior because of mastery so to me it just makes sense that demonology would get a shorter buff duration to them then the other specs. They are still getting 20 seconds added on, which in no way is being penalized.

#33 senraven

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:04 AM

"To put under a disadvantage or handicap." By the very definition of the word, it is getting penalized 10 seconds. Yes, it's PTR, stuff will get changed but to go from 45 seconds buff to 20 seconds while others are going from 15 to 30 is rather drastic. Yes, doomguards are doing a tone of damage right now but that's why they're fixing it, right?

#34 zyvix

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:50 AM

According to the most recent 4.3.0 simcraft results, the doomgaurd does 12304 dps while active for demonology and 6389/6345 for afflction/destruction. Ignoring the cooldown component of the set bonus, the 2 pc gives demo 246k extra damage (12034*20) while affliction and destro get about 192k extra damage. In no way is demo being penalized with this set bonus. In fact, as it stands demo gains the most from the 2 pc bonus.

#35 senraven

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 02:24 AM

Thank you Zyvix, I appreciate the hard numbers run down :) glad to see them too. I guess I'm just dissapointed in the reduction of the coolness factor of having a second demon out with me for almost 2 minutes

#36 dakalro

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 03:01 PM

Incinerate on the PTR seems to do a lot more damage than in simulationcraft.
Was it buff ?

Simulating 10mn DPS on a dummy boss with my gear gives me an average hit of 13644 and an average crit of 28984.
But on the PTR, while my soul fires and conflagrates hits for the sames values than the simulation, my incinerates are hitting for ~ 15850 and critting for 33400, which is a nice +16% dmg.

Anyone can confirm this ?


I've found a similar difference between 422-3 live and PTR destro tests, same stats, no proc items equipped, same spec. From what I saw it was just Incinerate.

With 5280 SP I was getting 6540 hit average on simulationcraft and 8000 average on PTR dummies. This was on PTR after the patch that scaled back Cataclysm to 25%.

Can't explain the difference and between work and having to do 3 clears of Firelands + PTR bosses I didn't have much time to actually figure stuff out. If someone else could help test I would appreciate it.

#37 pjokl

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 05:17 PM

â—¦[Fire and Brimstone] now increases the damage of [Incinerate] and [Chaos Bolt] on Immolated targets by 5/10/15%, up from 2/4/6%.


That should explain the difference.

#38 Zakalwe

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 08:39 PM

That change is implemented for the PTR simulations though, so it wouldn't explain a discrepancy if you're simulating with ptr=1.

#39 Zakalwe

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 09:25 PM

Actually, looks like they finally made incinerate work the way the tooltip always said: On the PTR, the additional 1/6th of the damage which is added when immolate is up on the target now scales with your spell power. It's never done that before, it's just been a flat 1/6th of the base damage.

#40 Maderthaner

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:03 PM

on the t13-2p bonus.

In my opinion the change is a step in the right way, however a DMG Burst with 6 Minutes CD is still problematic.
Warlocks surely have a problem with burst dmg and the demon could be a way out of it....

At least one Problem seems to be fixed: after a wipe (and the next pull) the demon seems now to be ready again....




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