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Patch 4.3 - Warlock Discussion


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#61 Romeus

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 05:57 AM

No, the only "friendly target" Hellfire damages is the Warlock channeling it. This has worked in the past for some trinkets/debuffs, but we won't know until it's tested.


Will of Unbinding does not stack from hellfire tick's in or out of combat.

Seed of Corruption grants you 1 stack regardless of the amount of target's that it hits.

Rain of Fire give's you a stack based on the amount of target's hit. Just tested all of them a few minutes ago.

#62 senraven

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 06:51 PM

So what are the new hard numbers for Demonology purposes? Mr Robot is showing that Crit is a bit better now then Haste with Mastery still tops, but not by a lot. Is this confirmed? And if so then whats the new setup? I've been getting haste up to 1846 (goblin) and then upping mastery from there and that has been matching dps rather nicely with other players who were going all out mastery and no haste. Should there be more focus on crit over haste now?

#63 Dartky

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 12:18 AM

I've been noticing some low numbers from my fel hunter as demonology.

I am starting to think that Master Demonologist is bugged.

We are not getting the 18.4% base to master demonologist.
Instead of: 2.3*Mastery+18.4%
we are only getting: 2.3*Mastery.
This is what my character sheets are showing.

(Yes, I tried respec'ing out of demonology and then back into demonlogy).

Running simcraft a few times, my shadow bites are no where near what they're simulated to do...

#64 Junlex

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 10:25 AM

You're misunderstanding where the 18.4% base comes from. We come with a base 8 mastery. 2.3*8 = 18.4% extra damage. 2.3*Mastery is correct.

#65 Brymmstone

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 08:08 PM

There used to be a pretty comprehensive Aff-lock thread that was found here: http://elitistjerks....sm_4_2_release/

However it doesn't seem to be reachable anymore unless you bookmarked it. Any ideas where it went and whether there are plans for an update for Patch 4.3?

Thanks.

#66 Geobram

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 09:07 PM

The thread is still there. Just make sure the forum shows threads older than 100 days or something like it. The thread will be updated as soon as Jmickey has time to update it (His post). This has all been said before.

#67 CharodeyGarona

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 07:11 PM

So what are the new hard numbers for Demonology purposes? Mr Robot is showing that Crit is a bit better now then Haste with Mastery still tops, but not by a lot. Is this confirmed? And if so then whats the new setup? I've been getting haste up to 1846 (goblin) and then upping mastery from there and that has been matching dps rather nicely with other players who were going all out mastery and no haste. Should there be more focus on crit over haste now?


I wouldn't depend on MrRobot much, especially since they are not taking into account your individual stats. Stat values will depend on each player, so any global valuation is likely to be flawed. The best thing to do is still running simulationcraft for your own case.

#68 Vladimeir

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 08:58 PM

Regarding Ti'Tahk and Tarecgosa, do we know the exact inernal cd of Ti'Tahk yet? Do we know if the buff is removed if the weapon is unequipped?

Since the weapons are comparable as is, what if one used Tarecgosa only while Slowing the Sands is active and then re-equipping Ti'tahk (unfortunately resetting the icd adding what is effectively 10seconds to the downtime of the buff.)

This allows dots to be rerolled, extra spells to be cast, and all benefit from Dragonwrath for 10 seconds.

If it is the haste that keeps the items comparable, why not utilize that haste with dragonwrath and maybe it'll be ridiculously overpowered for 10 seconds.

#69 CharodeyGarona

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 10:07 PM

Regarding Ti'Tahk and Tarecgosa, do we know the exact inernal cd of Ti'Tahk yet? Do we know if the buff is removed if the weapon is unequipped?

Since the weapons are comparable as is, what if one used Tarecgosa only while Slowing the Sands is active and then re-equipping Ti'tahk (unfortunately resetting the icd adding what is effectively 10seconds to the downtime of the buff.)

This allows dots to be rerolled, extra spells to be cast, and all benefit from Dragonwrath for 10 seconds.

If it is the haste that keeps the items comparable, why not utilize that haste with dragonwrath and maybe it'll be ridiculously overpowered for 10 seconds.


Comment on wowhead claims ti's 45 second ICD after the effect ends (that is to say, a 55 sec ICD). While I don't know whether the buff gets removed if you unequip the weapon, I'm assuming it will, since this is how previous similar items, most notably trinkets, worked.

#70 Vladimeir

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 12:02 AM

Actually, just got home and tested it. The buff was not removed when I swapped weapons.

However, switching weapons causes a global cooldown. And while, in theory, this may be something that might be advantageous, it would be a pain in the ass to do, Especially since it is dependant on RNG after you equip tarecgosas rest. One owould have 8.5 seconds, ideally, to use the bonus 2100 haste with the legendary procs which would amount to an additional 1, maybe 2 casts in the timeframe?

Perhaps during an execution phase where decimation would bring cast times down to gcds?

Either way, like I said, it probably isn't worth the hassle except in that not-human situation.

#71 Karrei

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 06:38 PM

Note that, although weapon switching causes a GCD, you are not prevented from switching if the GCD is active. So if you switch weapons just after an instanst cast by using a macro, you will at most lose a small amount of time to lag, and perhaps an opportunity cost because a non-instant spell would have been more optimal at the time.

You may get an added bonus if you enchant one of the weapons with hurricane, which, last time I checked, did not share an internal cooldown with power torrent.

#72 dakalro

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 08:27 AM

Ti'Tahk also has an appaling proc chance (50-80 seconds between 2 procs) and 18% uptime. I somehow doubt it's ever worth weapon swapping over DTR. In my current gear, as demo, I sim 350 dps higher with Sho'ravon than Ti'Tahk which makes both staves pretty even. Hopefully the heroic version has higher proc chance.

#73 Rustjive

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 04:03 PM

I somehow doubt it's ever worth weapon swapping over DTR.

I agree. Discussed this with a guildie yesterday, and even if it is a marginal DPS increase (due to lining up with DOTs falling), there still is the problem that DTR has hit and Ti'tahk does not. Even if you reforge off hit for DTR you will either be left with hit cap with DTR and 2+% miss with Ti'tahk or wasted hit rating with DTR. This probably erodes the remainder of whatever benefit you would get, if it isn't a straight up DPS loss.

#74 Vladimeir

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 06:57 PM

Ti'Tahk also has an appaling proc chance (50-80 seconds between 2 procs) and 18% uptime. I somehow doubt it's ever worth weapon swapping over DTR. In my current gear, as demo, I sim 350 dps higher with Sho'ravon than Ti'Tahk which makes both staves pretty even. Hopefully the heroic version has higher proc chance.


I have noticed the crappy proc rate as well which leads me to believe it may be on spell-cast opposed to on spell damage or healing. I didn't really play around with it too much to figure that out. But it makes sense that even with a 15% proc rate (which most items have) it may take 10-15 seconds to get it to proc if it holds to that 15% and in most instances will take significantly longer. In the middle of a fight, I'm generally putting out 5-6 actions per 10 seconds where, with most other trinkets/procs that will trigger off of damage, will be putting out double to triple that.

I also have yet to see a random proc from soul harvest, health stones, etc...

Really I should just run a combat log and figure out when and off what it procs but I have limited time for my warlock during the week.

EDIT:Apparently the proc rate was hotfixed as it is proc'ing all the time now (usually the first thing to proc) and off of all the aforementioned things that I said it has yet tod do (soul harvest, etc...)

#75 CharodeyGarona

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 06:53 PM

Ti'Tahk also has an appaling proc chance (50-80 seconds between 2 procs) and 18% uptime. I somehow doubt it's ever worth weapon swapping over DTR. In my current gear, as demo, I sim 350 dps higher with Sho'ravon than Ti'Tahk which makes both staves pretty even. Hopefully the heroic version has higher proc chance.


The proc chance for both items is exactly the same, at 15% (compare Item - Dragon Soul - Proc - Int Versatile Staff - Spell - World of Warcraft and Item - Dragon Soul - Proc - Int Versatile Staff Heroic - Spell - World of Warcraft), so the only possibility for the heroic version to have a higher uptime would be a lower ICD - which, of course, no one knows yet.

#76 stencil

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 07:48 AM

Paladins

  • Holy Radiance now has a 3.0-second cast time, no cooldown, and requires a player target. That target is imbued with Holy Radiance, which heals them and all group members within 10 yards instantly, and continues to heal them by a smaller amount every 1 second for 3 seconds.


The sections on Dark Intent in the specialization guides should be probably be updated to reflect Holy Paladins new potential as the recipient of the buff. My experiences with using DI on our Holy Paladin so far have been quite promising. The fast ticks on multiple targets will get a warlock to 3 stacks quickly. On some fights where I tested it, without giving the Paladin any special instructions, I was pleased with the results because the percentage of time at 3 stacks was much better than I'd been seeing from the other candidates. Even though the amount of time at 0 stacks was similar or sometimes worse than results from the other candidates, my average DI stack size for the fight was higher with the Paladin. On Ultraxion, of course, the uptime was fantastic.

The ten man raid I run in is druid free and I've usually been limited to choosing between a Holy Priest, Resto Shaman or Assassination Rogue for my DI. I even wrote a Skada plugin so that I could get a more detailed breakdown with uptimes for each stack size and average stack size in my quest to try to find the right person for each boss fight to use it on. The Holy Priest and Rogue have both sounded better in theory than in practice for me; they usually just don't crit enough with their hots/dots to get and keep me at a full 3 stacks.




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