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Cataclysm 4.3.x Raid Mechanics


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#41 Naihan

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 02:30 PM

Emphasizing that Assassination's single-target DPS is competitive rather than equal to Combat is a bit misleading. If you're talking about which specs are simming above the others, they're all about equal (i.e. Simulationcraft Results ). If you look at sites that take the median DPS for a top number (usually 100) of WoL parses and decide that it accurately represents the relative strength of the specs, nothing can be further from the truth. The current number of Combat rogues vastly outweighs the number of Assassination rogues (Blade Flurry often gives completely useless number-padding which attracts the masses), so the median number for the top 100 of Combat is sure to be much larger than that of Assassination. In simulation, at least you can rely on all things being equal. I think people that write off assassination so easily are being extremely short-sighted.

#42 eylieen

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 04:59 PM

I have no intention of turning this into a bitch-thread about combat vs assassination, but I will simply state that in my gear (close to BIS) combat sims just over 1000dps higher, and frankly playing a spec that costs 1000dps AND can't cleave simply won't cut it to me, especially when there's just so many cleave-friendly fights in DS. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE assassination, and would hugely prefer playing it, but that sort of discrepancy is too big to ignore. If they gave assassination a cleave or made its single target superior enough to combat to make it attractive on non-cleave fights it might be considered, but as it is now there's pretty much no reason to play assassination over combat (with the exception of the single aoe phase of the single aoe fight in DS). This is of course without even looking at WOL/epeenbot/etc parses, because as was said their data is skewed by people's preferences/fight gimmicks.

#43 dazed420

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 03:02 AM

Ultraxion, looking for confirmation from someone that feint does in fact work for hour. Tried it and never lived through it.

#44 zetto

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 03:12 AM

Ultraxion, looking for confirmation from someone that feint does in fact work for hour. Tried it and never lived through it.


It does work, but keep in mind you have to be topped, since it does around 150k damage

#45 Vigilate

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 04:50 AM

Spine of Deathwing:
You can shadowstep the Tendons under the plates, but doing so teleports you to the rear of his back.

Madness of Deathwing:
Shadowstep does work on the Alexstraza's platform but definitely kills you on Ysera's platform so I would lean on the side of caution when using it on this fight.

#46 xmod2

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 05:34 AM

Ultraxion, looking for confirmation from someone that feint does in fact work for hour. Tried it and never lived through it.


Will do 150k damage with feint. We had DG up on each time and I took 130k.

Normal mode also doesn't seem to give you a debuff so essentially you can stay in as many times as needed on normal mode.

#47 MikeJ714

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 07:22 AM

Be warned - I'm getting reports that during Madness, on at least the Green platform, you're unable to Shadowstep on the boss. He hasn't tried anything else, and Killing Spree seems to be working ok.

Also, Blue -was- able to be Shadowstepped.

#48 Chult86

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 08:15 AM

I don't see how Sub is better than Combat for Madness at all. You can cleave Burning Tendrils and hit the Tentacle. You can cleave the tendrils in p2, and you can cleave off of Deathwing onto the bigger adds as well. Also, having more Redirects is huge for the Meteor and swapping back to the tentacle.
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#49 MikeJ714

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 08:31 AM

Wasn't really the point to discuss if Subt was better or not. ;)

#50 Pathal

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 08:38 AM

I died on, I believe, Nozdormu's platform from Shadowstep earlier too. Looks like the side platforms are safe but not the center ones?

#51 sinnaa

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:32 AM

Updated through to here. Keep the info coming and I will keep the updates happening. If you notice something is wrong or not listed, please add your thoughts. There may just be little to say about zozz and yor, because I can't really think of anything else that is important to say.

#52 Brotherbear

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 03:33 PM

Just a heads up for Ultraxion. If you change specs during his monologue you lose access to the survival button.

I've been starting fights as Assassination, hitting Vendetta, and then hopping over to combat (usually buys me about 10-20 seconds of the Vendetta buff) but if you do that here, you'll just die horribly on Fading Light.

Even using the /click ExtraActionButton1 macro fails since it appears the button is just no longer in existence.


EDIT: I'd also like to mention that your timing to cloak Hour doesn't have to be terribly precise. On an early attempt Recount was killing my FPS, so I hit Cloak with about 1-3 seconds left until Hour and I was able to completely resist it. I didn't try cloaking Fading Light however,

#53 Whistles

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 03:40 PM

Clarifying that on Madness of Deathwing you can't use Killing Spree on the Mutated Corruptions (it just won't let you) but everything else in the fight is fine. Also the Elementium Bolt damage is Cloak resistable and not just immunable which is a pleasant change from previous tiers.

#54 kindath

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 03:55 PM

Madness of Deathwing
-You cannot attack the hands from the back, you must be in front of them.


Not sure what you mean by this. I was able to garrote and backstab the Deathwing's tendrils and the corruption tentacle from pretty much every angle.

Looking through Skada, I also don't see any dodges with only 110 expertise. I could be wrong on that count, though.

#55 Genjala

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 04:20 PM

Warlord Zon'Ozz (10man normal):
You can cloak the debuff (disrupting shadows) and it will do no dmg, but still knock you back.
You can cloak the aoe and be immune ~

#56 Hokahey

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:25 PM

I noticed on Madness of Deathwing fight. *at least on combat logs*

I'm getting about 1% or less misses. Might be similar to Ultraxion?

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#57 Aldriana

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:37 PM

As far as I know, Ultraxion gets missed normally. However, on Madness of Deathwing it does appear to be the major targets of the fight - the Arm and Wing tentacles, the Mutated Corruptions, and Deathwing himself - cannot be missed, while the other targets of the fight can be.

Its also worth noting that the arm/wing tentacles, unlike Ultraxion, can be Backstabbed.

#58 Nerio

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:10 PM

-Can Killing spree the tendons
-Can shadowstep the tendons, but doing so teleports you to the rear of his back


Interestingly enough, I was teleported to the rear of his back at the end of a killing spree on tuesday. Has anyone experienced this?

#59 Crazed

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:21 PM

Interestingly enough, I was teleported to the rear of his back at the end of a killing spree on tuesday. Has anyone experienced this?


Confirmed, I had this happen to me today on the third armor plate. It teleported me to the back as well.

#60 MikeJ714

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 11:42 PM

Did you guys have any additional adds up? I was able to KS the tendons without any issue, though my KS at one point did teleport me to a blood towards the back.




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