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Mists of Pandaria: All Specs


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#201 Valhauros

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 11:22 AM

Some important changes in the latest build (15972). Some buffs to Blood (Crimson Scourge has been brought back) and some nerfs to the rest:

(B) Heart Strike: weapon damage increased by 20% and additional damage by 38%.
(B) Rune Strike: weapon damage increased by 13%.
(B) Vengeance: 2% of unmitigated damage, 20 sec duration, no cap on health %.
(B) Crimson Scourge: increases Blood Boil's damage by 40%. On attacking a target with Blood Plague, 10% chance the next Blood Boil or Death & Decay will be free.

(F) Might of the Frozen Wastes: weapon damage reduced by 20%.

(U) Unholy Might: now increases your Strength by 15%, down from 25%.
(U) Festering Strike: weapon damage reduced by 13%, additional damage by 24%.
(U) Scourge Strike: weapon damage reduced by 16%, additional damage by 29%.

(Class) Death Coil: damage reduced by 15%.
(Class) Death Strike: weapon damage increased by 18%, additional damage by 50%.

#202 Otou

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 03:28 AM

Some important changes in the latest build (15972). Some buffs to Blood (Crimson Scourge has been brought back) and some nerfs to the rest:

(B) Heart Strike: weapon damage increased by 20% and additional damage by 38%.
(B) Rune Strike: weapon damage increased by 13%.
(B) Vengeance: 2% of unmitigated damage, 20 sec duration, no cap on health %.
(B) Crimson Scourge: increases Blood Boil's damage by 40%. On attacking a target with Blood Plague, 10% chance the next Blood Boil or Death & Decay will be free.

(F) Might of the Frozen Wastes: weapon damage reduced by 20%.

(U) Unholy Might: now increases your Strength by 15%, down from 25%.
(U) Festering Strike: weapon damage reduced by 13%, additional damage by 24%.
(U) Scourge Strike: weapon damage reduced by 16%, additional damage by 29%.

(Class) Death Coil: damage reduced by 15%.
(Class) Death Strike: weapon damage increased by 18%, additional damage by 50%.


Crimson Scourge's damage increase to Blood Boil, was likely accidental (copy pasta spell IDs~). As is, Vengeance allows Blood Boil to surpass Heart Strike damage. Expect it to drop too 20%, or less.

Unholy will also see more damage adjustments.

#203 Gnomeoleon

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 03:14 AM

Another interesting thing about Crimson Scourge, it completely refreshes your diseases when you Blood Boil on already diseased mobs. Not sure if this is working as intended since it wasn't mentioned in the tooltips.

#204 Astrylian

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 03:18 AM

Another interesting thing about Crimson Scourge, it completely refreshes your diseases when you Blood Boil on already diseased mobs. Not sure if this is working as intended since it wasn't mentioned in the tooltips.


Scarlet Fever - Spell - World of Warcraft
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#205 gharnef

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 06:34 AM

Another interesting thing about Crimson Scourge, it completely refreshes your diseases when you Blood Boil on already diseased mobs. Not sure if this is working as intended since it wasn't mentioned in the tooltips.


That's actually Roiling Blood (or whatever the leftmost T1 talent is called). That's been around for a while. And yes, I am talking in situations where there is only one mob.

#206 Tyvi

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Posted 18 August 2012 - 06:53 AM

That's actually Roiling Blood (or whatever the leftmost T1 talent is called). That's been around for a while. And yes, I am talking in situations where there is only one mob.


Astrylian was right, actually (click the link, the tooltip it shows here is still the Cata one). It's baked into Scarlet Fever and will refresh diseases on anything that gets hit by BB provided they already had diseases on them. Roiling Blood could be made to function like this on multiple targets if you shifted around a little every now and then because the primary target (the BB/Pestilence Beacon so to speak) would not get it's diseases refreshed.

#207 Solluno

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 05:58 PM

I hope you won't yell at me, but: Is there going to be a clean guide for frost/unholy as there has been in the past. Or in other words has someone decided to do one?

#208 Uspoonybard

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:11 AM

I hope you won't yell at me, but: Is there going to be a clean guide for frost/unholy as there has been in the past. Or in other words has someone decided to do one?


A lot of people have been doing number crunches and all that jazz for MoP for frost/unholy and there seems to be a pretty set rotation/priority list for the three: 2h frost, dw frost, and 2h unholy. A great forum I found was here.

DW vs 2h Frost rotation (MoP PvE) GC confirmd - Forums - World of Warcraft

#209 Jessamy

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 03:35 AM

The most recent Unholy Blight theorycrafting post was in April, and was from a tank perspective. All 3 dps models in SimulationCraft assume Plague Leech, but I'm not convinced that's optimal, or at least not universally so.

Over a 5 minute fight, refreshing diseases every 30 seconds looks like this for Frost

|PL|UB
0|outbreak|outbreak
30|plague strike|unholy blight
60|leech + outbreak|outbreak
90|plague strike|plague strike
120|leech + outbreak|outbreak
150|plague strike|unholy blight
180|leech + outbreak|outbreak
210|plague strike|plague strike
240|leech + outbreak|outbreak
270|plague strike|unholy blight
300|end|end

Which yields

|rune cost|rune gain|gcd cost
PL|5U|4D|14
UB|2U|-|10

So for a Frost DK, Plague Leech costs 3U and 4gcd compared to Unholy Blight, for a gain of 4D. That's probably worth it for DW, since death runes are worth more than unholy runes. And it's probably not a significant gain either way for 2H. But for an Unholy DK over that same 5m fight, PL costs 3U3F and 7gcd compared to UB, for a gain of 4D. That seems like a loss.

So it appears that DW Frost wants Plague Leech, UH wants Unholy Blight, and 2H Frost can choose either.

#210 HellHamsterr

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 09:08 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we supposed to pick Unholy Blight over Plague Leech for any spec, given any AOE scenario, since we are losing at least one death/blood rune for Pestilence (even assuming it transfers 100% of diseases)?

#211 Otou

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 12:14 PM

So it appears that DW Frost wants Plague Leech, UH wants Unholy Blight, and 2H Frost can choose either.

It depends on what level 75 option you took, but Unholy should be able to keep diseases up with Festering Strike/Outbreak. If Unholy Blight isn't saving you from Icy Touch/Plague Strike/Pestilence, then it's not worth anything. Plague Leech on the other hand is giving you a resource rather then saving it, so it's always useable.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we supposed to pick Unholy Blight over Plague Leech for any spec, given any AOE scenario, since we are losing at least one death/blood rune for Pestilence (even assuming it transfers 100% of diseases)?

Depends on the specific situation you're in.

As a generalization it's:

  • Plague Leech - Single target winner
  • Unholy Blight - Cleave winner
  • Roiling Blood - Massive aoe winner


#212 Reniat

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 10:52 PM

I'm not sure about dps, but blood will rarely use UB. Very few raid encounters have multiple adds come once every 1.5 minutes, and even pug 5 mans can down a standard pack of trash in 40-60 seconds.

#213 Otou

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 09:02 AM

I imagine many players are interested in how the level 75 talents play out, since the pre-Mists patch hits Tuesday

Here is what we know so far:

Frost uses Runic Empowerment.

  • If you're playing 2H Frost, you want Runic Empowerment because it generates the most runes. As 2H frost, all of your runes will be used for Obliterate on single target, so you don't really care which slot RE activates.

  • If you're playing DW Frost, you still want Runic Empowerment. The use is slightly different though. The optimal rotation for DW Frost is spamming Howling Blast, and only using Obliterate to prevent both Unholy Runes from activating. This means you'll be using RE to game Death/Frost Runes.


Unholy can use any talent for comparable single target damage.

  • The difference would be in how your rotation functions with each option. Runic Corruption will follow the same pattern it did in Cata, and is the simplest to work with.

  • If you choose Runic Empowerment as Unholy, your focus will be gaming Death/Unholy runes for more Scourge Strikes. RE also has the aoe damage advantage, thanks to Blood Boil being added to Reaping. In the same method that Frost games Death/Frost Runes to spam Howling Blast, Unholy can game Death Runes to spam Blood Boil.

  • If you choose Blood Tap as Unholy, your focus will be turning Blood/Frost Runes into Death for more Scourge Strikes. Blood Tap's main advantage would be the ability to bank Blood charges for key points of the fight. For Mists, it will also help ensure you can Soul Reaper on cool down. This is done by keeping a 5 stack of Blood Charges in reserve, as well as adding more wild card Death Runes into play.


Blood can change the talent depending on the encounter

  • The talent that produces the most Death Strikes per minute is Runic Empowerment. However, this is only relevant if the encounter calls for you to spam Death Strike on cool down. For something like Yor'sahj, where there is unavoidable damage being spammed, Runic Empowerment is the best option. RE falls short when you're not using Death Strike on cooldown, and need to time your DS usage. This is because potential procs are wasted, since you can't activate a rune that isn't empty. RE works the same as Cata, where you game Frost/Unholy Runes for procs.

  • Runic Corruption is the talent that allows for the most consistent Death Strike interval, while also allowing you to sit on Death Strikes. All RC does, is speed up your basic rune regeneration rate. As long as you never have both runes in the active state, you're never wasting a RC proc. RC is the best talent for constantly keeping a Death Strike available, without wasting resources.

  • Blood Tap allows Blood to store up regeneration procs, and unload them on Death Strikes at key points. Blood Tap shines on encounters where the damage is predictable, and you can tell exactly when it will happen. Something like the impale on Madness is a good example of this. You know exactly when you're going to get hit for massive damage, and can unload appropriately. The way to use Blood Tap, is to constantly sit between 6-12 Blood Charges. Whenever you hit 11-12 charges, you cast Blood Tap to ensure you don't cap them (12 is the cap). Each Blood Tap requires 5 charges to cast, so you'll need at least 10 charges to unload a full Death Strike. Blood Tap does require fully depleted runes to work, like RE. So you'll have to unload your active Death Strikes, before using Blood Tap.


Blood Tap info

  • It works like Runic Empowerment (and Plague Leech) in that it only activates a fully depleted rune. Which means it can't be used unless you have an empty rune slot.

  • Unlike RE, the rune it activates isn't truly random. It has some special logic built into it for each spec, to improve it's use. Basically, it tries to activate each spec's least useful rune and turn it Death.
    • If you're Frost, it prefers depleted Unholy Runes.
    • If you're Unholy, it tries to avoid depleted Unholy Runes.
    • If you're Blood, it prefers depleted Blood Runes.

  • Every Death Coil/Frost Strike/Rune Strike generates 2 Blood Charges, that stack to a maximum of 12. This means you'll want to hold between 6-12 charges of Blood Tap when banking, and always cast Blood Tap when you get 11-12 stacks.

  • Blood Tap is the only talent that gives resources, when Death Coil is used for healing purposes. When you use a Lichborne/Undead heal, or the Glyph of Death Coil, RC/RE will not proc. You will however receive Blood Charges for casting them. The reason this happens, is that you receive Blood Charges on casting Death Coil/Frost Strike/Rune Strike, but RC/RE only proc upon landing the attack. Death Coil healing and Death Barrier don't count as Death Coil landing, so RC/RE can't proc.





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