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Mists of Pandaria: All Specs


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#1 Carebare

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 09:31 PM

Please use this thread to discuss Druids in the Mists of Pandaria expansion. Avoid excessive wish-listing and whining. Constructive criticism is fine. Make sure you are making a useful post. "I like X" is not useful. "I like X because it allows this or that" is useful. Common sense applies, if you're not sure feel free to PM a moderator or administrator. Thanks.
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#2 Nihlo

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 01:40 PM

I collected the Druid-information I found so far. Maybe to edit the first post or to delete it.


General:
There won't be Pandarian-Druids.
Relics are gone.
Druids now have four specs: Feral -> cat DPS. Guardian -> bear tank. There are some overlap between the two and all druids can still go cat or bear form.


Moonkins:
In 5.0, Hurricane will have a new arcane version.


Bears:
Bears are losing their strong cat DPS.
Demoralizing Roar will be removed.
Active tanking should be like Death Knights: focus talent trees on staying alive, rather than threat.


Cats:
No plans for druids to equip two fist weapons for DPS.
Cats twill not have frenzied regeneration.


Trees:
Resto druids have decent single target healing, but mindless AoE healing. A new type of wild mushroom could be introduced that makes people heal when it explodes.


MoP Druid Talent-Calculator



#3 Vaccine

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:04 AM

Q: What will happen to passive abilities like trueshot aura, arcane tactics, improved icy talons and unleashed rage? Where will they go in the new talent system?
A: Many of those become passive abilities you get for your spec. We are removing some of the less interesting buffs and debuffs (+bleed damage, armor, 3% damage, resists are all on the chopping block at the moment).


Interesting snippet from the GC Q+A last night, Mangle debuff on the chopping block for removal. I wonder where that leaves Cat Mangle in regards to the Feral Cat priority list. It may just be a filler move when you can't Shred now and completely absent from normal cat rotation, which is rather odd. They also had a question they answered saying they're pretty happy to have seperate effects in PVE to PVP for abilities which is kind of rubbing it in a bit with their constant reluctance to remove the Shred positional requirement, at least in PVE.
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#4 Ultis

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 11:21 PM

I guess it will be reported on several sites, but it currently hasn't been on MMO-Champion at least, so here are the most relevant quotes from the 9 Nov 2011 Class Q&A regarding druids.

I only added those bits that contain new information and don't repeat information included in the talent preview.

Feral

Feral druids (but not Guardian druids - the new bear spec) learn Infected Wounds [as a spec ability].


in 5.0 Mangle will no longer cause a bleed damage debuff and so no longer be required in the rotation. At that point, the two abilities will be interchangeable, changing only by whether a Feral Druid can attack from behind or not


Our own internal numbers show that once the Glyph of Shred works from Mangle as well as Shred, the difference between a Mangle and a Shred rotation is actually fairly small (in the 5% range).


Resto

Our current plan for Mists is for Intellect to no longer directly increase the size of player mana pools. We intend for our mana-based DPS and Tank classes to be entirely self-reliant regardless of mana pool, so the gameplay impact for those players will be nil. For healers, Spirit will remain as the pure regen stat, and healers after multiple tiers of raid progression will clearly have far more mana at their disposal, but there will be more of an inherent tradeoff between regen and throughput stats. A healer with amazing regen will have amazing regen because of a choice to focus their stats in that direction.


One of the new abilities Resto Druids will get baseline is a replacement for Barkskin that can be cast on others with the same effect and cooldown


Cross-spec

we have a new level 87 ability abiltiy in mind for all Druids called Symbiosis that will blwo your mind and potentially add a lot of flexibility and utility, including survivabiltiy options.


Ferals and Guardians will have Nurturing Instinct, which increases spell power based on Agility, and Balance and Restoration will have Killer Instinct, which increases attack power based on Intellect.



#5 nephyron

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 11:06 AM

Balance
The new talent "Incarnation" will transform a moonkin into "the Chosen of Elune form" increasing damage done and energy generated.

Restoration
Wild Mushrooms will heal friendly targets on detonate

#6 WildGarden

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 12:04 PM

Restoration
Wild Mushrooms will heal friendly targets on detonate


Go you have a source for that? The Open Q&A from BlizzCon includes mention of one planned ability "like the wild mushroom to detonate to heal people", but that may either replace or be in addition to the Wild Mushroom spell.

#7 spiritryu

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 06:19 AM

From the MoP Talent Calculator on: Talent Calculator - Game - World of Warcraft!

Symbiosis
Creates a symbiotic link which grants the druid one ability belonging to the target's class, varying by the druid's specialization.
In exchange, grants the target one Druid ability based on their class and combat role.
Lasts 1 hour and persists through death.

Wild Mushroom: Bloom
Causes your Wild Mushrooms to bloom, healing all allies withing 6 yds for X



#8 Kluian

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 07:18 AM

Other interesting things to note

Insect Swarm (balance only) - Increases damage taken by your wrath / starsurge / starfire by 30%. one target only. Appears to no longer be a dot, just a "curse of elements" but for the druid only.


Lvl 60 tier talents flushed out more

Wild Charge (cd unknown) -

Human form - Fly to an ally. Next heal costs no mana
Bear Form - Charge an enemy, immobolize them and grants you 30% haste (time?)
Cat Form - Leap behind enemy and cause your next Ravage to cost no energy, not require stealth, and have no position requirement.
Moonkin - Bound backward and gain 20 lunar or solar energy, whichever is more beneficial.
Travel form - Leap forward 20 yards and take 20% reduced dmg for 10 seconds.
Flight form - Increase flgith speed by additional 20% for 30 seconds.
Aquatic form - Increases swim speed by additional 200% and take 20% reduced dmg for 10 seconds.

Incarnation (3 min cd) - 30 second buff

Balance - Improved moonkin form that increases arcane / nature dmg by 20% and reduced damage taken by 15%. So while in moonkin form you now have 40% increased nature / arcane dmg and 30% damage reduction.
Feral / Resto bonuses seem the same.



#9 Cylebren

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 07:28 AM

I admit, the Wild Mushroom change looks interesting, especially considering how they seem to have rolled Efflorescence into Swiftmend. Cenarion Ward also seems interesting. Kinda like Earth Shield but perhaps not quite as good? But at least we'll finally have a friendly target damage reduction.

I'm still very much on the fence with MoP 'flavor talents' for resto druids. But change is still possible and probable.

#10 Vaccine

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 07:31 AM

And the worlds longest tooltip award goes to... Ferocious Bite!

Feral Changes:
- Ferocious Bite had Blood in the Water, Rend and Tear and Glyph of FB rolled into it.
- Swipe now deals 20% extra damage on bleeding targets.
- Thrash now works in cat,
- Savage Roar back to WotLK version, increases all Physical damage.
- King of the Jungle (TF) rolled into TF.
- Rend and Tear rolled into Shred.
- Glyph of Bloodletting/Shred rolled into Mangle/Shred.
- Shred still exists with it's positional requirement. :(
- NI changed to "Increases your nature spellpower by 100% of your agility". Should at least boost Wrath spam it would seem for time away from a boss.
- iLotP rolled into LotP.
- Ravage had Predatory Strikes rolled in, the ravage part.
- The other half of PS still exists as a trained passive.
- Skull Bash has the BI mana cost increase.
- New Might of Ursoc ability, a bit like Last Stand. Appears in the Feral part as well as Guardian so I guess this is some halfway ability to compensate for removal of SI from Feral.
- Infected Wounds now passive trainer ability for Feral but AS debuff removed.
- Symbiosis new class ability, lets you copy a targets spell and gives them one of yours. Lives or dies by what abilities we get to use.

Nothing too surprising except the SR change, I guess that's done with eyes on PVP/Arena.

Still not that impressed with the actual talent tree in that it doesn't really seem to force many decisions when I'm kitting it out for PVE Feral. Probably the only one that will be changed fight to fight is the level 60 tier depending on how good the Treants are and whether Charge is needed or not.
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#11 Kermit

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 07:58 AM

The Resto and Boomkin specializations have a new passive ability, Killer Instinct: "Grants 100% of your Intellect as Agility when you shapeshift into Bear Form or Cat Form". Nice for us resto druids to not have wrath spamming as our only choice when it comes to off-dpsing / questing.

EDIT: Another interesting thing is that Resto druids gain "Ironbark" instead of Barkskin at level 44. Ironbark is basically a targetable Barkskin. The CD is 2 minutes compared to 1 minute for normal Barkskin though.

#12 a civilian

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 07:59 AM

The Nurturing Instinct change might make it worthwhile to use Predator's Swiftness procs on Wrath, especially with the Master Shapeshifter talent.

#13 Tecton

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 10:00 AM

A quick browse through the spell details seems to show the following notable details (i.e. not just the result of a talent disappearing) for Resto/Moonkin:

  • Revive is going Resto only? It's marked a spec specific spell now rather than class, which seems most likely a mistake.
  • Regrowth is having the glyph baked in (refreshes duration whenever it heals someone under 50% HP). Also now Resto only, as is Nourish and Lifebloom.
  • New base ability: Might of Ursoc. Increases HP by 30%, raises HP to 30% if below that for 20 seconds. 3 min CD.
  • Lunar Shower is going baseline, meaning we won't have the option (other than not training it, I guess!) to avoid having Moonfire/Sunfire generate energy.
  • Hurricane becomes Arcane Storm while in Lunar Eclipse.
  • Wild Mushroom: Detonate appears to be Balance only now, similar to Bloom being Resto only.
  • The cooldown on Starfall is reset when entering Lunar Eclipse.
  • Moonkin Aura now provides 5% crit to the raid rather than Haste.
  • Nature's Grace is now fired by entering an Eclipse state, rather than by triggering from a DOT.
  • Skull Bash now only available if specced as Feral/Guardian.

Not comprehensive, just what I noticed from my first read.

#14 Rodpad

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 10:53 AM

A few changes that haven't been mentioned yet:

  • Moonkin Aura provides 20% extra damage, up from the current 10%.
  • Nature's Grasp now only has 1 charge.
  • Stampeding Roar now also removes roots and snares from all targets that are in range of your roar.


#15 Vaccine

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 11:12 AM

[*]Skull Bash now only available if specced as Feral/Guardian.
[/list]


I thought they might be removing healer interrupts but Holy gets to keep Rebuke and Resto keeps Wind Shear, albeit on a 15 second cooldown now. Not that it was the easiest thing to use but in some cases like Nef platforms it could still be handy for Resto/Moonkin.
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#16 Tecton

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 12:04 PM

I thought they might be removing healer interrupts but Holy gets to keep Rebuke and Resto keeps Wind Shear, albeit on a 15 second cooldown now. Not that it was the easiest thing to use but in some cases like Nef platforms it could still be handy for Resto/Moonkin.


Yeah, it's a utility I've made use of on occasion for Alysrazor adds/Nef platforms/etc as both balance and resto. As well as the obvious PvP loss, it's a bit of a puzzling change when it's not being mirrored to other classes, especially since it's far more inconvenient than the examples above to use.

#17 Raath

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 01:26 PM

I thought they might be removing healer interrupts but Holy gets to keep Rebuke and Resto keeps Wind Shear, albeit on a 15 second cooldown now. Not that it was the easiest thing to use but in some cases like Nef platforms it could still be handy for Resto/Moonkin.


On the plus side Solar Beam is baseline for moonkin, so it is only resto losing an interupt.

#18 nephyron

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 02:01 PM

-2% spell dmg from Balance of Power
-8% spell dmg from Earth and Moon
-2% spell dmg from Earth and Moon Secondary effect
+20% dmg from moonkin form (+10% buff) <- compensate for 3 above nerfs
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-10% damage from moonfury aura
Wrath, Starfire, Starsurge base damage increase by 10% <- compensate for moongury aura
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Starfire 2.7 sec cast time (3.2 sec actually -0.5 from talent) <- cast time won't change from actual patch 4.2
Wrath 2.5 sec cast time (+0.5 sec cast time) <- cast time will go up because actually it's 2.5 -0.5 from talents
No more nature's grace, only 1% haste when you hit an eclipse (-14% haste each eclipse) maybe a tooltip error
No more 5% haste from moonkin form (now gives 5%crit)
No more Prime glyphs (-20% dmg for Moonfire and -10% dmg for Wrath)
No +100% crit damage from moonfury aura <- maybe it's a baseline mechanic for all spells? (heal/dmg)
+30% dmg from insect swarm, nice for PvE, but since it's limited to one target they could just increase the damage of our nukes by 30%. Useless in PvP because it can easilly be dispelled and there's no dispel protection on it.
Will this +30% compensate for the lost haste and the MIA prime glyphs bonuses? Maybe yes, but what about Wrath Cast time?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Symbiosis mechanic is unclear: does it take away one our spells and change it for the other class spell? (moonfire for icelance for example) or does it add a new spell?
The extra spell ould replace Symbiosis (like Dark Simulacrum)... where does it go for the linked friend ?
If it add a new spell: they haven't told us if it will be a damaging spell (i think it's useless because we have our own)
If it add an utility spell: yay it could be fun to steal from a lock the teleport or some kind of immunity form paladin / mage etc
If it add an healing spell: could be useful considering we are going to lose Regrowth, Lifebloom, Nourish in Balance spec
For healers this will be amazing because it could take something like PW: Barrier or another raid CD from healers.
What will happen when a Resto druid uses it on a Warrior / Hunter / Rogue / Mage ?

#19 Raath

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 02:52 PM

It does seem that IS is becoming non-damaging, however, so the 30% buff needs to counteract 14% haste lost and an entire DoT damage loss, assuming no tooltip bugs, which it may not at this point. Remember that damage numbers are "easy to fix" as blizzard keeps telling us so I wouldn't worry about our actual DPS until we have some real evidence to back it up. The loss of an entire DoT could also be a way of nerfing our multidotting abilities, however.

Additionally the 5% haste isn't disappearing entirely, it just seems that moonkins won't provide it. It is still in the Shadowform description currently.

I agree they havn't made Symbiosis clear yet, I would imagine that it will be that we gain a new spell but don't lose one, obviously speculation. This could cause similar issues as DI does now (incidently DI is becoming a raid buff of 6% spell damage), in that there may be crying over which class gains most from it. For instance, an arcane mage gaining moonfire could be huge. Again it is hard to tell until the mechanics are made clear and the spell swap list is given. It does say that it is based on our spec and role as to which spell we gain, and the targets spec and role for the one they gain.

I see no changes so far that would affect moonkin stat priorities so far, if anything more emphasis on haste since more haste -> more starfall in the new system.

Lunar Shower becoming baseline saddens me, there has been a significant amount of discussion on the matter, with the conclusion being that it is simply an inherently weak mechanic, due to the low damage gain, the stacking mechanic, and the loss of control of eclipse. This could potentially be a large nerf in AoE situations with mobs that die relatively slowly (think Maloriak).

#20 nephyron

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 03:27 PM

Cyclone has 20yard range and without the talent it will be awkward for a 40yard class to run within 20yards just for cyclone




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