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Mists of Pandaria: All Specs


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#1 Carebare

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 09:35 PM

Please use this thread to discuss Warriors in the Mists of Pandaria expansion. Avoid excessive wish-listing and whining. Constructive criticism is fine. Make sure you are making a useful post. "I like X" is not useful. "I like X because it allows this or that" is useful. Common sense applies, if you're not sure feel free to PM a moderator or administrator. Thanks.

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#2 Sherea

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 01:42 PM

Loving the new Avatar spell, 16.6% uptime on a 20% raw increased dmg buff might sounds slightly OP as of now, but then again I'm guessing they made it to compensate Death Wish burst problems in Pvp mainly. Good call I reckon

As for pvp, the new Cripple spell looks amazing, auto slow apply finally like rogues and DK's. If that slow works through multi rending, it might just be ridiculously good in Bg environments

#3 Rynok

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:52 PM

As for pvp, the new Cripple spell looks amazing, auto slow apply finally like rogues and DK's. If that slow works through multi rending, it might just be ridiculously good in Bg environments


The tooltip Blizzard read from at Blizzcon says simply "and Rend ticks," so it would be safe to assume that, at least currently, Cripple would indeed proc off multi-Rending via Blood and Thunder or manual applications.

I am personally looking forward to the raid implications of Rude Interruption for all Warriors- 2.5% passive damage buff, depending on RNG and ICD mechanics (if applicable). With RNG and ICD factored in, it might end up being closer to 1.5% or 1.3% passive buff.
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#4 Muspel

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 01:58 PM

I am personally looking forward to the raid implications of Rude Interruption for all Warriors- 2.5% passive damage buff, depending on RNG and ICD mechanics (if applicable). With RNG and ICD factored in, it might end up being closer to 1.5% or 1.3% passive buff.

Based on the current tooltip, it seems identical to the current Rude Interruption, so I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here.

Unless you mean that warriors will be assigned to interrupt duty whenever possible.

#5 Rynok

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 05:52 PM

Based on the current tooltip, it seems identical to the current Rude Interruption, so I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here.

Unless you mean that warriors will be assigned to interrupt duty whenever possible.


Essentially, my point was that the changes to the Talent trees will open Rude Interruption up for Protection and Arms Warriors, as well as Fury Warriors. Currently, Rude Interruption is not a viable Talent choice for any spec but Fury, at least in PvE.
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#6 Muspel

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 10:57 PM

Essentially, my point was that the changes to the Talent trees will open Rude Interruption up for Protection and Arms Warriors, as well as Fury Warriors. Currently, Rude Interruption is not a viable Talent choice for any spec but Fury, at least in PvE.

Yes, but it hasn't really had any implications even in its current form for fury. Prot's DPS isn't really a big deal, and unless Arms becomes a competitive PvE spec, it's not really relevant.

*shrug*

I just don't really think it'll matter in the big picture beyond "all other things being equal, the warrior should do interrupts", which is basically the same as now, at least for Fury.



Personally, I'm curious about exactly how much of a damage boost "Enrage" is (from Death Wish and whatever that charge talent is that I'm too lazy to look up).

#7 Vulmio

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 01:15 PM

From the first tier (about charge) : I suspect 3 things :

-Charge will be useable in combat, baseline (because there aren't talents allowing this anymore for prot or arms)
-Intercept is gone (since there wouldn't be any talent for the fury spec and in combat charge + intercept would be too much)
-Charge will probably be useable in all stances

The charge/intercept diversity would be replaced by the charge talent diversity.

#8 Rynok

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 04:01 PM

Yes, but it hasn't really had any implications even in its current form for fury. Prot's DPS isn't really a big deal, and unless Arms becomes a competitive PvE spec, it's not really relevant.

*shrug*

I just don't really think it'll matter in the big picture beyond "all other things being equal, the warrior should do interrupts", which is basically the same as now, at least for Fury.

Personally, I'm curious about exactly how much of a damage boost "Enrage" is (from Death Wish and whatever that charge talent is that I'm too lazy to look up).


From my testing on the PTR, I've so far determined that Arms and Fury damage has been rather close to equalized in 4.3, at least for my personal style of play with both specs. I would, however, like to see some testing from someone who is more familiar with the Fury spec than I am before I make the claim that Arms is once again viable.

And the only reason I brought it up in the first place is because the other two Talents in that tier don't currently seem to have any value for PvE whatsoever, outside of trash pulls.

As for the Enrage mechanics (Bull Rush is the talent you're thinking of, with allows Charge and Intervene to Enrage the Warrior for 6 seconds), Fury's current Enrage mechanic is 10% for 9 seconds. No word from Blizzard yet on whether they will carry this mechanic over to MoP or redesign it to be more reasonable for all specs, though I suspect the latter.

From the first tier (about charge) : I suspect 3 things :

-Charge will be useable in combat, baseline (because there aren't talents allowing this anymore for prot or arms)
-Intercept is gone (since there wouldn't be any talent for the fury spec and in combat charge + intercept would be too much)
-Charge will probably be useable in all stances

The charge/intercept diversity would be replaced by the charge talent diversity.


I would agree with your second point as being the most logical, but the other two are still more speculation than anything else. We don't know yet if Blizzard is completely removing Glyphs from the game, or is simply redesigning them for the new talent trees. All they've said definitively so far is that they're revisiting Prime Glyphs because they're not happy with how Prime Glyphs were working from a balance perspective.

So, while your first and last point might be possible, it's still just as likely at this point that those things could be redesigned into Glyphs.
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#9 Faxe

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 04:28 PM

They actually said at Blizzcon that Charge will be usable in combat and in any stance. Blizzcon 2011 Talents and Classes Panel [4/4] - YouTube

#10 Rynok

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 04:56 PM

They actually said at Blizzcon that Charge will be usable in combat and in any stance. Blizzcon 2011 Talents and Classes Panel [4/4] - YouTube


I stand corrected. In that case, it would be reasonable to assume that all of the above points regarding Charge will prove correct.

I'm mainly curious to have a chance to test the new Avatar talent and its possible uses for PvE. I've seen it suggested elsewhere that it might be of greatest benefit for PvP because of the immunity to movement impairing effects, but an outright 20% damage buff for 10 seconds once every 60 seconds equates to a passive 4% damage increase. It might just be the Tier 6 talent of choice for boss encounters if it isn't changed.
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#11 Muspel

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:34 PM

As for the Enrage mechanics (Bull Rush is the talent you're thinking of, with allows Charge and Intervene to Enrage the Warrior for 6 seconds), Fury's current Enrage mechanic is 10% for 9 seconds. No word from Blizzard yet on whether they will carry this mechanic over to MoP or redesign it to be more reasonable for all specs, though I suspect the latter.

Well, I assume they're changing the damage buff percentage, since Death Wish will be absolutely horrible otherwise.

#12 Rynok

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 04:22 PM

Well, I assume they're changing the damage buff percentage, since Death Wish will be absolutely horrible otherwise.


I just did the math on the current version of Death Wish with the original damage buff carried over, and that's a rather ugly conversion. .56% passive damage buff. It seems reasonable that they will indeed buff the damage buff from enrage effects- otherwise, Death Wish will be entirely useless.
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#13 Archex

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 06:41 PM

An interesting thing to lobby for in beta is having Bull Rush also remove the minimum range for charge - if I'm taking that talent it's to help me get enraged more often, but having to hop back 8 yds to use it seems too restrictive.

#14 Muspel

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 03:29 AM

An interesting thing to lobby for in beta is having Bull Rush also remove the minimum range for charge - if I'm taking that talent it's to help me get enraged more often, but having to hop back 8 yds to use it seems too restrictive.

Bull Rush seems like a PvP talent to me, honestly.

#15 Elimbras

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 07:51 PM

I just did the math on the current version of Death Wish with the original damage buff carried over, and that's a rather ugly conversion. .56% passive damage buff. It seems reasonable that they will indeed buff the damage buff from enrage effects- otherwise, Death Wish will be entirely useless.


Well, the whole tier is nearly useless from dps perspective. Death Wish competes with 3 free HS every 2 minutes and with BullRush, which also enrages you (albeit with a higher uptime, if charge is used on cooldown, with the current numbers).

It's in fact interesting to see how little dps choices there is: tier 1 is mobility, tier 2 is self-healing (what's the new mechanism for Victory Rush ? You can't put a slow 30% heal on 3 min cd in competition with a 20-rage victory rush every 30s in the current implementation), tier 3 is crowd control, tier 4 is interrupt, tier 5 is enrage / little dps, and only tier 6 offers real dps choices (guess it will be avatar for single target, and bladestorm for aoe fights).

For an all-around prot specs, the choices seems to have more interest however (because a tank cares more about self-healing, and potentially interrupts / crowd controls in heroics / 10-men raid).

#16 Rynok

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 10:50 PM

For an all-around prot specs, the choices seems to have more interest however (because a tank cares more about self-healing, and potentially interrupts / crowd controls in heroics / 10-men raid).


This was my thought exactly. I'm very interested to see what they're doing with the baseline mechanics in order to compensate for the changes to talent trees.
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#17 Darkmgl

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 03:11 PM

This was my thought exactly. I'm very interested to see what they're doing with the baseline mechanics in order to compensate for the changes to talent trees.


They tried to emphasize strongly at the panels that the key abilities would just be baked into the specialization skills or baseline skills you gain and that only really fluff talents (which they already pruned most of already) would be removed completely. I'd expect to see passive fluff like War Academy, and Cruelty that really don't need to be there just getting eliminated and the effectiveness of the skills they changed being improved to compensate for all specs.

What interests me is some of the talents that used to be modified by talents/masteries when they were skills. They said something along the lines that what you see is what you get with the talents now so they either baked in the additional effects or they dropped them completely. This really makes some of the talents pretty lackluster (mostly for other classes).

Theres some interesting things out there though. I'm finding the offering of Bladestorm and Shockwave hard to not just always go for Shockwave in unless the Fury Bladestorm is going to strike with both weapons.

It will be interesting to see how the lack of cross speccing might affect things too. Take Deep Wounds for example. That is either going to need to be baked into multiple specs (baseline, which means prot would get it too) or Arms is going to be the only one walking around with it.

It will also be interesting to see how glyphs are affected by the cross talent stuff now too. If the glyphs for them remain for certain classes then it is possible that your talent choices may be influenced by glyph slot limitations.

I'm also wondering how they will handle SMF and TG, if it will let us mix weapons and how that would possibly create interesting play.... Maybe they could provide some sort of parity bonus for doing that. Offhand Rage Builder anyone?

#18 cbgoding

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 04:50 AM

Offhand Rage Builder anyone?


This xpac has been around for how long, and the "high speed = high rage" myth is still alive? Good lord. The faster the base speed of the weapon, the less rage you receive from a swing. You actually get LESS rage as smf due to the lower flurry uptime and lower item levels. It just feels like more rage because of slam taking priority over rb.

#19 Elimbras

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 06:11 PM

It will be interesting to see how the lack of cross speccing might affect things too. Take Deep Wounds for example. That is either going to need to be baked into multiple specs (baseline, which means prot would get it too) or Arms is going to be the only one walking around with it.

In fact, priest have specific specs "abilitites" which are baked into the two healing specs (namely in-fight regen and defensive magic dispell on friends). Both of them are not baseline (and shadow has neither), but both disc and holy have the same exact version of it.

#20 Rynok

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 06:55 PM

In fact, priest have specific specs "abilitites" which are baked into the two healing specs (namely in-fight regen and defensive magic dispell on friends). Both of them are not baseline (and shadow has neither), but both disc and holy have the same exact version of it.


I think I understand the point you're trying to make, but you might want to elaborate a bit on it to make it relevant to a discussion of Warrior-specific changes.

Further, the entire point of the post to which you're replying is that the emphasis is on taking these spec-specific abilities found in Talent trees and making them baseline for the upcoming xpac, regardless of whether or not they are currently baseline or not. The question of whether or not Arms will be the only spec that has Deep Wounds or not is entirely valid speculation in that context.

To continue the discussion, I'm also curious about talents such as Tactical Mastery and Incite. Tactical Mastery will likely disappear entirely, sans a drastic overhaul to Warrior Rage mechanics, but I'm curious to see whether or not they roll Incite into Heroic Strike's baseline.
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