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Mists of Pandaria: All Specs


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#41 Zodiac2049

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 02:54 PM

- How does increased up time on enrage and the addition of Wild Strike effect the attractiveness of our mastery??


Under the current circumstances, each point of mastery would result in a 1.4% increase in rage gained per hit. For TG this generally ends up meaning you gain an additional point of rage every other MH/OH hit combo, and for SMF every 3rd MH/OH hit combo.

Also, something it appears a lot of people didn't notice, is the flurry change which functions like enrage does now, having a 9% chance to proc off any attack.

#42 Mericet

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 03:06 PM

Last stand also has no cooldown. The shield block thing makes sense (apart from having just 1 charge, which seems weak, especially if it just keeps the same 25% increased chance to block effect), but running around with a permanent 30% extra health sounds pretty incredible.

#43 Runtime

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 03:09 PM

To be honest, It doesn't really seem with the current implementation of prots active mitigation will feel very "active" the vast majority of our mitigation is still going to be passive and the difference between poor play and exceptional play, will not be very noticeable. I really hope this ends up getting changed during beta to have more of the survivability control in the players hands.

I also noticed that whirlwind has a 6 second cooldown and still has the CD reduction by 6 seconds if it hits 4 or more targets. Flurry was changed as well, It now has a 9% chance to proc off all melee hits and raging blows rage cost was raised to 30.

Im wondering if Wild Strike is going to be worth using without a blood surge proc with its high rage cost. I cant imagine its damage being that overwhelming with it being based off of off hand damage.

#44 Otori

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 03:45 PM

Last stand also has no cooldown. The shield block thing makes sense (apart from having just 1 charge, which seems weak, especially if it just keeps the same 25% increased chance to block effect), but running around with a permanent 30% extra health sounds pretty incredible.


Yeah though it also costs 80 rage.

I agree with Runtime. SS/Rev/Dev to 80 rage and hit shield block doesn't seem that interesting.

#45 Tyvi

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 06:29 PM

The Last Stand change has to be a bug. If it was for real, you'd just have to keep 100% uptime on it like DKs do with Blade Barrier and Ret Paladins do with Inquisition and you'd be balanced around said uptime.

That would effectively remove Last Stand as a cool down so there is just no way this is not a bug.

#46 landsoul

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 07:25 PM

BT>RB>(filler)

Filler (equiv to 2 1.5s GCDs) Priority:
1. BloodsurgeWS
2. Exec
3. Rend
4. Shout
5. WS

Only considering BT, RB, and WS, a fully closed rotation will be extremely expensive. 70% of the time it will cost 90 rage every 6s, and 30% of the time will cost 60 rage every 6 seconds. We make about 10 RPS right now +/- some things... I can't imagine us hitting too many non Bloodsurge WS's.
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#47 Otori

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 07:30 PM

Regarding DPS classes, Colossus Smash was changed to an Arms only ability and costs 80 rage. This should make the new Deadly Calm a minor dps increase as you can fit 3 heroic strikes in the debuff duration.

The competing talents in the same tier seem pretty lackluster. Death Wish seems to be the equivalent of the current "extra rage on damage" component of Berserker Rage and Bullrush really has no use outside of the first few seconds of a fight. Between the new Enrage mechanic proccing off every crit, with a 10 sec duration, and Berserker Rage, there's no need for an extra 6s enrage after charge/intervene.

The Last Stand change has to be a bug. If it was for real, you'd just have to keep 100% uptime on it like DKs do with Blade Barrier and Ret Paladins do with Inquisition and you'd be balanced around said uptime.

That would effectively remove Last Stand as a cool down so there is just no way this is not a bug.



Most definetly. Devastate's tooltip is also wrong...says it lowers target's armor by 151% and stacks up to 3 times.

#48 Runtime

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 08:32 PM

I dont think its a bug. With how many things were changed on it, (rage cost, no cd) they have to be intending for us to maintain it.o

#49 Finkum

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 03:57 AM

The current Protection changes leave me highly unimpressed: rage has become too similar to Holy Power, or more generally the generator/finisher resource model typified by Rogues.

Additionally, the current design has similar issues to the 4.0 Protection paladin, where you are encouraged to sit on your rage (Holy Power) until a boss special/string of unblocked hits and then Shield Block/Last Stand (use Word of Glory) rather than spending it whenever you cap with Heroic Strike/Cleave/etc (Shield of the Righteous/Inquisition). This isn't an engaging or enjoyable mechanic, which is why WoG was given a cooldown, and why in 5.0 all Holy Power finishers have a survivability mechanic.

The easiest way to discourage this behaviour would be to reduce the rage cost of our "finishers" to something like 50 - 60 rage, but I'd prefer a change which moved away from the generator/finisher resource model.

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#50 Littch

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 01:36 PM

For fury, due to the hit being removed from Crazed Berserker. do you think they are going sort out the dual wield miss chance out? Because 60 - 90 rage without doing so is going be pretty hard to keep up at the start of the tier. Also from the look of things it kinda feels like an Enhance Shaman, spam abilities, no more rage banking or anything challenging.

#51 Mjölner

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 09:59 AM

I can't see how they're going to make us competitive with the seemingly absurd rage cost the new layout has, and also with the lack of Colossus Smash.

I hope they don't go the route of removing CS, but coincidentally doubling damage on skills to be competitive, because that'll make us pretty much slaughter clothies, and then we'll be nerfed again due to it.

But, I guess we'll have to wait and see. I do hope they figure this out, and I also hope that warriors doesn't get the whole generator - finisher model of DPS, which I hate.

#52 Muspel

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 05:00 PM

I expect that haste will become a lot more desirable for fury than it currently is, since Deep Wounds is no more, Flurry doesn't proc off crit, and mastery will increase our damage by a lot less (since Death Wish and Enrage no longer increase damage directly, but rather increase rage generation). Unless they rework our mastery, that is.

Based on the current talents, I'm speculating that hit will be our best stat, followed by haste.

#53 Ronninn

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 05:33 PM

I can't see how they're going to make us competitive with the seemingly absurd rage cost the new layout has, and also with the lack of Colossus Smash.

I hope they don't go the route of removing CS, but coincidentally doubling damage on skills to be competitive, because that'll make us pretty much slaughter clothies, and then we'll be nerfed again due to it.

But, I guess we'll have to wait and see. I do hope they figure this out, and I also hope that warriors doesn't get the whole generator - finisher model of DPS, which I hate.


The impression I got from building rage, and dumping it with high rage attacks was that it was more like hunter focus then our current rage model. I'm interested to see how it works out, and how this will impact our rotations.

#54 Alexxcri

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 10:37 PM

I am very curious how Bladestorm will interact with Fury. How it will balance SMF with TG and more importantly how in the world a bladestorming TG Warrior will not make healers run for mommy.

#55 Muspel

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 10:51 PM

I am very curious how Bladestorm will interact with Fury. How it will balance SMF with TG and more importantly how in the world a bladestorming TG Warrior will not make healers run for mommy.

Keep in mind that, in its current state, Bladestorm doesn't hit with both weapons, so it won't be all THAT powerful.

#56 Otori

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:43 PM

A new version has been released and Warriors got a very significant amount of changes:

Talent Calculator - Game - World of Warcraft

Are are some I noticed:
  • Deadly Calm now has 1 min CD.
  • New talent Bloodbath
  • New talent Storm Bolt
  • Gag Order changed to work with Storm Bolt
  • Enraged Regen changed to heal for 15% health and another 15% over 10 sec.


  • Enraged mechanic change to be triggered by special abilities critical strikes and critical blocks.
  • Removed Overpower CD.
  • Added 1.5 CDs to every stance.
  • Changed Berserker stance. Increases damage by 20% whenever an attack hits 4+ targets.
  • Battle Shout increases attack power by 20% (akin to current attack power buffs like Blessing of Might, Trueshot Aura, etc).
  • Rallying Cry back in.
  • New skill: War Banner
  • Shield Wall and Spell Reflection require shields again.
  • Fury got CS back.
  • Protection got Vengeance (though with the old incarnation)
  • Shield Block cost reduced to 60 rage. Blocks next attack and increases block chance by 25% for 6 sec.
  • Last Stand rage cost removed, 3 min CD added.
  • Devastate armor reduction effect corrected.
  • Sword and Board effect increases rage generation from Shield Slam by 5 (old incarnation increased by 10%).
  • New ability: Shield Barrier. 60 rage, decreases magical damage taken by 25% for 6 sec.

I'm sure there are more though.

Arms rotation still doesn't seem figured out. Slam costs too much and so does CS, which is cornerstone due to Sudden Death. Rage generation for Arms has also been nerfed (at first look, not considering that MS now generates rage) due to the removal of Anger Management which used to generate 1 rage/3sec while in combat and increase rage generation from hits by 25% (MoP enrage mechanic, but with a 100% uptime).

Prot seems to work like Fury currently does, with 3 sec Devastate and filler GCDs in between, and the only important skills that cost rage are Shield Block/Barrier, Thunder Clap, Rend, Spell Reflection, Execute and HS/Cleave, so unless you're pressed to push threat or DPS, your only choice is between reducing physical or magical damage.

Fury's rotation remains how Landsoul posted it, with CS being baked in. Considering it's cost, the necessary rage per minute to keep a Fury rotation going seems even more ridiculous.

#57 Rynok

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Posted 07 December 2011 - 11:45 PM

Bloodbath (Instant, 2 minute CD)
You carve up your opponent with your weapons. For the next 12 seconds, your special attacks cause the target to bleed for an additional 30% damage over 6 seconds.


Storm Bolt (Instant, 30 second CD)
Hurl your weapon at the enemy causing 100% weapon damage and stunning the target for 3 seconds. Deals an additional 300% weapon damage to targets that are permanently immune to stuns. Replaces Heroic Throw.


Seems like Deadly Calm may be the talent of choice in MoP for all specs, unless the CD on Bloodbath is drastically reduced. Of course, depending on Heroic Strike and Cleave baseline damage, the same could hold true for Storm Bolt, as well. I wonder if they'll update Glyph of Heroic Throw to also apply to Storm Bolt?
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#58 Otori

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 12:12 AM

Possibly. Storm Bolt replaces Heroic Throw and glyphs like Sunder Armor work with Devastate, which replaces that it.

Storm Bolt could have a place in a single target rotation (maybe not for SMF), because 400% weapon damage is very significant (would hit much harder than Overpower, for instance) and I see a lot of rage issues with both DPS specs. The main problem though is if it will still reset your swing time as HT does.

This is a very problematic tier because both Bloodbath and Deadly Calm are straight out DPS abilities so it's really easy to math up which one is better. Without going into numbers, I can see BB being amazing on packs of mobs with TC, Bladestorm/Shockwave, Heroic Leap, etc.

Storm Bolt brings Warriors stun potential to the roof...we can have up to 4 stuns (Throwdown, Shockwave, Stormbolt and Charge).

#59 Rynok

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Posted 08 December 2011 - 12:42 AM

Which will be rather useless in most PvE situations.

As for Bloodbath being amazing, as I already stated, I'd be much more impressed with it as a talent if its CD wasn't so high. Lowering the CD would make it more competitive with the other two.

I agree with Rage looking like it might be an issue with the new expansion. From the looks of it, everything is currently overpriced and underpowered, and Arms doesn't seem to even have a rotation at this point.
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#60 Zynth

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 04:14 AM

With the latest version of the talents up I'm a little worried about the Prot Rotation. The cool downs of SS and revenge are 6 and 9 sec respectively. With Sword & Board only procing from revenge we would want SS prioritized over revenge, but that seems to create scenarios where the "free" SS is wasted due to it coming off CD anyway.

For example:

0.0 SS
1.5 Rev no S&B
3.0 -
4.5 -
6.0 SS
7.6 -
9.0 -
10.5 Rev S&B proc here is wasted
12.0 SS

0.0 SS
1.5 Rev S&B
3.0 SS
4.5 -
6.0 -
7.6 -
9.0 SS
10.5 Rev original cycle repeats

This seems to be a pretty big flaw.




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