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Fury 4.3 BiS


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#1 Sherea

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 07:29 AM

Updated post on MMO: Fury TG 4.3 BiS list

***This thread is subject to change and is a work in progress***

The following is/will be an all round guideline on how to get into 4.3 Raids as TGFury and more than just a BiS item list. I'd like to get the better group of MMO active warriors directed here to get my hands on some live parses and analysis from other players. Doing so will give every warrior playing person a good and in depth idea about Dragon Soul and everything that comes with that into this one post. WOL parses or others can be send to me in a PM on MMO or on Outland EU - Sherea. Other ideas etc are also appreciated if relevant. Thanks
(Have to keep my math mind soothed with something outside of raids and Uni! :>)

Pre-note:
This is focused fully onto Fury TG as it will very likely outperform Arms and SMF by a significant margin in the following, particular gear.
This is optimized for a HIT heavy build

Bis List:

Helm Colossal Dragonplate Helmet

Enchant: Arcanum of the Dragonmaw
Gems: Reverberating Shadowspirit Diamond (Meta), Bold Queen's Garnet (Red)
Reforge: None
Drop Location: Warmaster Blackhorn - Dragon Soul Heroic

Neck: Necklace of Black Dragon's Teeth

Reforge: None
Drop Location: Valor Points 1250, probably updated with equivalent of Crystallized Firestone

Shoulders: Backbreaker Spaulders

Enchant: Greater Inscription of Jagged Stone
Gems: Bold Queen's Garnet (Red x2)
Reforge: Mastery -> Hit
Drop Location: Spine of Deathwing - Dragon Soul Heroic

Cloak: Dreamcrusher Drape

Enchant: Enchant Cloak - Greater Critical Strike
Reforge: None
Drop Location: Valor Points 1250, probably updated with equivalent of Crystallized Firestone

Chest: Colossal Dragonplate Battleplate

Enchant: Enchant Chest - Peerless Stats
Gems: Bold Queen's Garnet (Red x2), Inscribed Lava Coral (Yellow)
Reforge: Expertise -> Crit
Drop Location: Ultraxion - Dragon Soul Heroic

Bracers: Rockhide Bracers

Enchant: Enchant Bracer - Major Strength
Gems: Bold Queen's Garnet (Red x2)
Reforge: Mastery -> Hit
Drop Location: Morchok - Dragon Soul Heroic

Gloves: Colossal Dragonplate Gauntlets

Enchant: Enchant Gloves - Mighty Strength
Gems: Bold Queen's Garnet (Red)
Reforge: None
Drop Location: Warlord Zon'ozz - Dragon Soul Heroic

Waist: Demonbone Waistguard

Gems: Bold Queen's Garnet (Red), Etched Shadow Spinel (Blue)
Reforge: Mastery -> Hit
Drop Location: [added later]

Legs: Colossal Dragonplate Legplates

Enchant: Dragonscale Leg Armor
Gems: Bold Queen's Garnet (Red x3)
Reforge: Mastery -> Crit
Drop Location: Yor'sahj The Unsleeping - Dragon Soul Heroic

Boots: Treads of Crushed Flesh

Enchant: Enchant Boots - Lavawalker
Gems: Bold Queen's Garnet (Red x2)
Reforge: Mastery -> Hit
Drop Location: Warlord Zon'ozz Heroic

Ring 1: Ring of Torn Flesh

Gems: Inscribed Lava Coral (Yellow)
Reforge: Mastery -> Hit
Drop Location: [added later]

Ring 2: Curled Twilight Claw

Gems: Bold Queen's Garnet (Red)
Reforge: Mastery -> Crit
Drop Location: Ultraxion - Dragon Soul Heroic

Trinket 1: Creche of the Final Dragon

Drop Location: added later

Trinket 2: Eye of Unmaking

Drop Location: Spine of Deathwing - Dragon Soul Heroic

Main Hand: Experimental Specimen Slicer

Enchant: Enchant Weapon - Landslide
Gems: Bold Queen's Garnet (Red x2)
Reforge: Mastery -> Hit
Drop Location: Yor'sahj The Unsleeping - Dragon Soul Heroic

Off-Hand: Experimental Specimen Slicer

Enchant: Enchant Weapon - Landslide
Gems: Bold Queen's Garnet(Red)
Reforge: Mastery -> Hit
Drop Location: Yor'sahj The Unsleeping - Dragon Soul Heroic

Ranged: Darting Chakram

Reforge: None
Drop Location: Valor Points 980, probably updated with equivalent of Crystallized Firestone

Note: The weapon damage of both weapons are displaying an odd number, they're both around 300 weapon damage higher as the PTR versions.

Stats as of T12 heroic BiS gear (I took Enk as an example as his gear is closest to theoretical Bis, only second Sulf heroic is missing)

Crit: 31.10% (Human)
Haste: 5.72%
Mastery: 763

Hit: 14.89% (Hit Heavy Build)
Expertise: 691 or 26/26 (Human)

Strength: 7219

Stats as of T13 current BiS list: (IN PROGRESS)

Crit: 34.08% (Human)
Haste: 1.00%
Mastery: 707

Hit: 16.69% (Hit Heavy Build)
Expertise: 697 or 26.21 (Human)

Strength: 6866, 7666 (Eye of Unmaking fully stacked)

Damage Breakdowns (FuryTG)

[added later]

Specific Dragon Soul fight wise tips/minmax

[added later]

vs. SMF and Arms

[added later]

Hit vs Mastery as of 4.3

[added later]

Edit: Credits to Sinnermighty and others to follow for providing parses

#2 Runtime

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 07:28 PM

I think its too early to rule out the Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps as we dont know anything about the proc. There is also a hit level at which mastery becomes better than hit (somewhere around 15%) and so mindlessly reforging into hit is not the best approach. I would like to see some simulationcraft runs with different levels of hit and varying gear sets.

#3 Sherea

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:16 PM

Working on all that, I'm quite sure Mastery will be ahead of Hit by a good margin once we really start gearing in 4.3 but I'm getting support from some warrs to test it out and find out the math scaling, expect it soon enough after 4.3 goes live (hence the added later things ^^). As for the weapon, it will 'probably' be BiS but I just didnt add it yet as the procc could be anything, as you said yourself

#4 Grimraven

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 01:32 AM

I did a quick math and, assuming that new BiS gear list is approximately correct, we are getting

+2.98% crit
-4.72% haste
-56 mastery
+1.8% hit
+447 str

that looks pretty weak to me

#5 Cosmo Kramer

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 10:13 AM

I think its too early to rule out the Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps


Even more interesting will be how Souldrinker will sim - the proccrate etc. This tier there is no higher ilvl TG weapon so smf could be the better choice? Or is the str difference enough to rule souldrinker out from the start (its the tanking weapon so str should be even lower than the "normal" 1hand str dd weapon)?

1.7% of 165k life is 2.805 and i think we can assume the procrate shouldnt be abysmal low so that tanks have some use from the procc. factor in a possiblity to crit....

#6 Sherea

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 10:17 AM

Even more interesting will be how Souldrinker will sim - the proccrate etc. This tier there is no higher ilvl TG weapon so smf could be the better choice? Or is the str difference enough to rule souldrinker out from the start (its the tanking weapon so str should be even lower than the "normal" 1hand str dd weapon)?


SMF wont be viable at any point really, were already in a stage where everything tends to go better as TG, and the weapon linked above is a higher ilvl one, just have to see what the procc'll do

#7 Runtime

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 12:45 PM

I can see several people running SMF in t13 for the same reasons we did in t11. Hand of Morchok drop off probably one of the easier heroics and the first normal mode. The other thing I can see is that since we have proc based weapons, we will use those as mainhands and use ones with flat stats in OH.

#8 Athkore

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 12:35 AM

Wasn't there a weapon with 3.80 swing timer datamined by mmo-champ?

#9 Runtime

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 01:07 AM

There was but apparently when they edited all the names, they also made it a 3.6 speed. Im guessing it was Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps as it has the same proc as the 3.8 speed one that was datamined.

#10 Antiquarian

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Posted 01 November 2011 - 05:36 PM

Do we know of any raid drops that can possibly replace the Neck and Cloak for this best in slot list? Arguably gear from Valor Points will not be upgradable to Heroic status, as that is what happened this tier. Only Ranged slots from VP were upgradable in 4.2, and I expect that to be the case again with 4.3.

Just as is happening now, there were Heroic VP items datamined during 4.2 PTR but they never made it to Live servers, just as Heroic Trash items from BWD and BoT never made it to Live servers even though they were datamined from Cataclysm beta.

Luckily neither VP items have Expertise, so even if we are forced to wear the normal equivalents of each piece our relative caps can still be surmised before a Live launch. I haven't dug through all the datamined items yet myself however, so I do not know if we will have an option outside of the VP Cloak / Neck from Heroic Dragon Soul.

#11 Shadowswà llm

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 03:27 PM

I am not one of those people who hops onto the band wagon of going full hit/crit and saying screw mastery. From what was posted on MMO-Champ(data mined info any way) mastery will give a 11.6% per point(i think) vs the 4.6% we have now. Wouldn't the mastery % out weigh crit/hit? I mean I understand we still need both hit and crit but wouldn't mastery trump them past a certain point?

Edit: I went crit/hit heavy for this week of raiding to see if its a dps loss or dps increase vs my mastery heavy build.

#12 Muspel

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 03:31 PM

I am not one of those people who hops onto the band wagon of going full hit/crit and saying screw mastery. From what was posted on MMO-Champ(data mined info any way) mastery will give a 11.6% per point(i think) vs the 4.6% we have now. Wouldn't the mastery % out weigh crit/hit? I mean I understand we still need both hit and crit but wouldn't mastery trump them past a certain point?

Edit: I went crit/hit heavy for this week of raiding to see if its a dps loss or dps increase vs my mastery heavy build.

That's not what MMO-champion said at ALL.

Each spec starts with a base amount of mastery. In fury's case, it's two. It used to be eight. For a short time on the PTR, they accidentally reverted to eight, but it's since been fixed.

Mastery is worse than crit, always. It's worse than hit until you reach very high amounts of hit (about 15%, IIRC, though you should check a spreadsheet since it varies somewhat based on your other stats).

#13 landsoul

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 09:22 AM

Well, this thread is just all kinds of silly. T12 obviously favors TG due to weapon choice and availability and the TG-particular set bonus. That does not mean T13 will obviously favor TG. Why do people just post speculations based on ignorant assumptions?

The 2pT13 set bonus has several outstanding implications on scaling, stat balance, spec and gear choice, etc. Just look at it and think about it for a few minutes. A cost reduction for our excess rage spender.

What do I mean?
  • TG does not > SMF.
  • Mastery Builds will become obsolete

Posting BiS lists so very early on is also kind of dumb, and it always happens and is annoying. No one is going to be clearing the heroic bosses and getting -all- the gear they want so early.
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#14 Darkmgl

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 02:22 PM

Theres some really cool implications when you combine the 2pc and 4pc, you can get some seriously amazing burst in IR if you get colossus up for a large portion of it along with all the excess rage you would generate to dump using SMF. The burst potential is just completely insane, especially if you're in your other cooldowns. You can already see this a bit in Arms when you get lucky with CS and in Fury it is gonna be even burstier.

TG never really felt so far ahead that it couldn't swing back the other way again. It only really dominated the T12 tier because of Zoids and Hand of Rag really having no SMF counterparts that were as good and wanting the higher hitting Raging Blows. It also stinks having to blow Firestones on classes that don't really need them to be effective as opposed to something like a Frost DK that has no other alternative. You could down the first heroic boss and walk away with some solid TG weapons while you could clear the entire instance for months and still be bottom of the pecking order for 391 SMF axes.

As said a DW 1 hander with a stat offhander could be a very interesting possibility if it keeps that 15% proc rate and has no ICD.... The extra self healing too would be noticible, at least in a 10 man environment.

The 10 point reduction on Heroic Strike almost feels too powerful. Need some testing to back it but boy is it gonna get spammed alot again, especially if SMF becomes the way to go. Blizzard really should know better by now then to increase the rage efficiency of a skill that much, we will likely want to aim for enough rage to spam it on gcd during every IR. I feel like I would have to ask myself in a SMF situation if I would choose Heroic Strike over Raging Blow during IR if I didn't have the rage to do both, and I know they don't want HS to be that powerful. Obviously it'll be whichever hits harder, but they seem like they would be pretty damn close when you equalize the rage....

#15 Collision

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Posted 04 November 2011 - 07:14 PM

The 10 point reduction in heroic strike will make HS deal more DPR than RB on average for SMF. It would take something like 900-950 mastery to make RB do more DPR than a 20 rage HS, which is unlikely to happen for SMF.

So, during inner rage SMF would never use raging blow.

Overall though, the rotation would still mostly the same. Bloodthirst still does far more DPR, and a 30 rage HS will deal more DPR during CS than a 20 rage HS outside of CS. Just use heroic strike whenever you have more than 80 rage outside of CS, and unload all the rage you can during CS regardless of whether or not inner rage is up.

There might be incredibly rare cases with the 4 piece that you would want to save rage during CS for the next CS. Say, if bloodthirst procs a CS, and in 6 seconds CS will come off CD along with Inner rage. In that case, you would want to save up rage for the 2nd CS as you would be able to take advantage of a much higher DPR HS.

I did some fucking around in simcraft with ONLY 2 piece t13 enabled, changing the rotation so that during inner rage raging blow is not used, and inner rage was used on CD without trying to min/max when you toggle inner rage and it was around a 900-1k dps gain, or around 3%.

So yeah, 2 piece is huge.

#16 Flaps

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 12:20 AM

The 10 point reduction in heroic strike will make HS deal more DPR than RB on average for SMF. It would take something like 900-950 mastery to make RB do more DPR than a 20 rage HS, which is unlikely to happen for SMF.

So, during inner rage SMF would never use raging blow.

Overall though, the rotation would still mostly the same. Bloodthirst still does far more DPR, and a 30 rage HS will deal more DPR during CS than a 20 rage HS outside of CS. Just use heroic strike whenever you have more than 80 rage outside of CS, and unload all the rage you can during CS regardless of whether or not inner rage is up.

There might be incredibly rare cases with the 4 piece that you would want to save rage during CS for the next CS. Say, if bloodthirst procs a CS, and in 6 seconds CS will come off CD along with Inner rage. In that case, you would want to save up rage for the 2nd CS as you would be able to take advantage of a much higher DPR HS.

I did some fucking around in simcraft with ONLY 2 piece t13 enabled, changing the rotation so that during inner rage raging blow is not used, and inner rage was used on CD without trying to min/max when you toggle inner rage and it was around a 900-1k dps gain, or around 3%.

So yeah, 2 piece is huge.


You seem to forget that HS is off the GCD so I don't see why you'd stop using RB and last time I checked it was RB proccing the 4p CS and not BT.

#17 Runtime

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 12:55 AM

It was a data mined change. Obviously not offical but you can read it hear.

MMO-Champion - Patch 4.3 - PTR Build 14809

As for what he was talking about, If you only had enough rage income for either 1 HS or 1 RB he is saying that you would choose HS. This is due to the set bonus making HS more DPR than RB which in the current model means more dps.

#18 Collision

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 03:42 AM

You seem to forget that HS is off the GCD so I don't see why you'd stop using RB and last time I checked it was RB proccing the 4p CS and not BT.


Made up numbers incoming, but the logic is the same.

Before we get 2pc T13, the DPR estimates for RB and HS for SMF are something like...

HS: 800
RB: 1000

With this model, HS is the least efficient attack we have and as such is the lowest in priority, so we TRY to only use it as a "Rage dump" to prevent rage capping outside of colossus smash.

When you get 2 piece T13, the DPR estimates become more like this during inner rage. (Once again, made up numbers.)

HS: 1100
RB: 1000

So raging blow is now your "Rage dump" effectively. However, you will (ALMOST) never run into an issue with rage capping as you can use heroic strike every 1.5 seconds during inner rage, so you can spam heroic strike as much as you need to prevent rage capping and you will never have to use raging blow.

The only reason we have to use heroic strike today is because you would rage cap without it. During IR with 2 piece T13, you would never have to worry about rage capping as you will always have an ability that will deal more DPR than raging blow available to burn off the excess rage.

As the previous poster said, the 4 piece bonus was changed to proc off bloodthirst.

#19 Auron

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 02:28 PM

I think its too early to rule out the Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps as we dont know anything about the proc. There is also a hit level at which mastery becomes better than hit (somewhere around 15%) and so mindlessly reforging into hit is not the best approach. I would like to see some simulationcraft runs with different levels of hit and varying gear sets.


I wanted to pose a possible assumption of Gurthalak and also Souldrinker probably in that overall they would have to compare to the agi 2h imo which is currently probably compareable at 1000 agi with the proc Your melee and ranged attacks have a chance to trigger Fury of the Beast, granting 120 Agility and 10% increased size every 1 sec. This effect stacks a maximum of 10 times and lasts 20 sec.

If that does hold true that gives a general baseline of where I believe the 416 weapons will be bis for sure

#20 Missdirected

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 12:27 PM

My guild completed madness of deathwing tonight and Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps - Item - World of Warcraft dropped which one of warriors got it in my guild. I asked her to do 10min dummy test to check out the proc and here is what I found


Posted Image



So it did about ~1mill damage over 10min raider's dummy. Please note that the tentacle is currently bugged and it spawns in front of target which is why there are few dodges, misses, and parries in that recount show. I hope blizzard fixes it before it goes live. One more bad thing about this tentacle is, it does not move at all. It sticks to ground where it spawns, so if boss or your targets moves a little bit, it will not attack it.

Tentacle did 1670dps over 10mins and it was 6% of warrior's total damage. If Blizzard fixes it, then it will do a lot more dps. It looked like every time it spawned, it did flat ~100k damage. Lets compare this to caster legendary staff, which is round about 10% damage for most of classes. After the fix, this will be almost as good as the staff.

Also note that the warrior in this test was arms and she was expertise and hit capped. I am sorry for my bad english.

Edit : Here is link of that warrior who did test Crunchycooki @ Jubei'Thos - Game - World of Warcraft All the gear is same on ptr except weapon. One more thing to notice is that the tentacle can crit some times. Have a look at this screen shot


Posted Image




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