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#21 tekswe

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 04:26 PM

Very interesting information Missdirected.
Considering the 10% AP buff was solely implemented to make up for the scenarios where we lose uptime or have to position in front of a target it seems rather counterproductive NOT to hardcap the tentacles expertise or alternatively make it spawn behind the boss or even better move WITH the boss. It obviously provides a good chunk of damage, but i can't escape the feeling of irritation that our DW weapon is handicapped when parried and not even mobile while other weapon procs are more passive increases. A flat 1000 agility buff is surely more attractive than a buggy tentacle when this scenario is exactly what the developers wanted to compensate us for.

#22 landsoul

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 08:36 PM

Should definitely switch the weapons to the Ataraxis, Cudgel of the Warmaster, or Hand of Morchok if SMF is your choosing.

Also, Bones of the Damned (Chest) should be the Off-piece.
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#23 Runtime

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 08:46 PM

Why would you choose Ataraxis, Cudgel of the Warmaster over Experimental Specimen Slicer when they are exactly the same except that the slicer has a slightly better secondary stat.

#24 Ran Newman

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:34 PM

I havn't done the math but as landsoul stated before the reduced cost on HS makes rage generation much stronger, so I assume he's trying to imply that haste will become stronger then mastery for TG.

#25 Kluian

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Posted 19 November 2011 - 02:16 AM

Bones of the Damned is a valor item. As far as I know in 4.3 there aren't any ways to upgrade valor items, even though you can see them on sites such as Wowhead.

#26 Darkmgl

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 06:44 PM

My guild completed madness of deathwing tonight and Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps - Item - World of Warcraft dropped which one of warriors got it in my guild. I asked her to do 10min dummy test to check out the proc and here is what I found


Posted Image



So it did about ~1mill damage over 10min raider's dummy. Please note that the tentacle is currently bugged and it spawns in front of target which is why there are few dodges, misses, and parries in that recount show. I hope blizzard fixes it before it goes live. One more bad thing about this tentacle is, it does not move at all. It sticks to ground where it spawns, so if boss or your targets moves a little bit, it will not attack it.

Tentacle did 1670dps over 10mins and it was 6% of warrior's total damage. If Blizzard fixes it, then it will do a lot more dps. It looked like every time it spawned, it did flat ~100k damage. Lets compare this to caster legendary staff, which is round about 10% damage for most of classes. After the fix, this will be almost as good as the staff.

Also note that the warrior in this test was arms and she was expertise and hit capped. I am sorry for my bad english.

Edit : Here is link of that warrior who did test Crunchycooki @ Jubei'Thos - Game - World of Warcraft All the gear is same on ptr except weapon. One more thing to notice is that the tentacle can crit some times. Have a look at this screen shot


Posted Image


That tentacle is gonna be a very iffy thing. it would have done around 15% more or so if it wasn't attacking from the front, about 1900 dps. Now you have to take that in it's context though.

1900 DPS of your total buffed DPS should only be somewhere around 5%-6% for a single target situation in current gear. On top of that this is based on T12 gear, not T13 gear so if the tentacle doesn't scale up at all (I assume the 416 version will do more than the 403 version) then it becomes a smaller part of your DPS as the rest of your gear improves. On top of that it is not a flat gain, the actual gain is the difference of the tentacle's DPS to the opportunity cost of your secondary stats that the weapon does not have. You need to include the gained weapon DPS from Gurthalak and the lost Crit/Mastery or the Crit/Haste from a Specimen Slicer/Cudgel in the calculation for a true comparison.

Its nowhere near as effective as the legendary staff even postnerf. The legendary stat 10% gain is in addition to the secondary stats so it has no opportunity cost, it is a flat out bonus. On top of that it is quite a bit more than 10% of a gain for most casters, its only around 10% for the worst classes for it. It gets much higher when you take synergy into account based on how the extra procs effect other stuff.

You're comparing a 5%ish gain (best case) to a 12%-15%ish gain. Anyways the loss of secondary stats is the biggest problem for the Deathwing weapons and it could end up making them borderline as to whether they are actually upgrades or not. 60 DPS is nice and all but those procs really need to make up for alot of lost rating points. Hand of Rag really stood out because it was a flat stat gain and a weapon speed advantage, but when you are looking at something as abstract as a summoned pet or a proc based on your max health it gets really wonky.

On a side note does anyone know if the whirlwind proc trinkets have ICDs?

#27 TeddyTauren

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 10:42 PM

I got the sword from a normal run last week. Instead of meleeing it mind flays. It has no ICD and I often had 2 tentacles up at once. Mind flay ticks for about 11k between 8 and 10 times per tentacle. Tentacle has a duration of 10s. It did not seem to benefit from death knight mastery and seemed to do the same damage even while naked. I have not seen it crit, the DK said he has seen it crit.
Obviously having the tentacle be ranged fixes the parry and movement problems.

#28 Slambo

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 10:43 PM

Just thought I should say that they changed the weapon on the ptr. I managed to get 2 swords on my ptr warrior, the tentacles now channel mind flay 3 times for ~100k total damage over the 10 seconds, and it can miss (spell hit). They don't share an ICD (I had 2-3 out at the same time a lot) but do have a pretty low proc rate, just doing a few dummy tests they ranged from 6% to 17% of my total damage.

Ill post some screenshots later if I remember.

Edit: damn, beaten to it. I haven't seen it crit btw.

#29 landsoul

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 06:31 AM

I got Nok'aled the 1-handed agility axe.

The proc is:

Spell crit rate
Spell crit bonus (x1.5)
(didnt see any misses cause I was over hit)
spell damage
no ICD
6.5% proc rate (1.5 PPM @ 2.6)

The crits proc Deep Wounds but not Flurry.

It's 403, Not sure if it's going to be better than a 397 1-Hander yet.


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#30 Macasiria

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 05:13 PM

Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps
It is a very excellent weapon

These were some tests in the forum
If you know the chinese,click this link:[4.3װ������]˫�ֽ�-��ɳ���,��Ԩ֮�� ���� - �����˹��ҵ�����̳ - [2186][f181]

There was a lucky player who gained two Gurthalak just at once...
With his test ,we could draw three conclusions that:

First,procs rate 2% , the procs has no ICD (same as most of the people)

Second,mind flay is spell dmg and can crit, and the damage can be increased by the spell dmg debuffs ,such as Curse of the Elements

Third and it is paramount that Gurthalak can be multi triggered by AOE when you attack the multi targets.


EG: A B C three targets , you cast cleave to them . the procs may be trggered 3 tentacles at the same time...
It is very imba in the AOE situation. World of Tentacles
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#31 Mjölner

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Posted 29 November 2011 - 05:42 PM

Gurthalak, Voice of the Deeps
it is a very excellent weapon

these were some tests in the forum
if you know the chinese,click this link:[4.3װ������]˫�ֽ�-��ɳ���,��Ԩ֮�� ���� - �����˹��ҵ�����̳ - [2186][f181]

there was a lucky player who gained two Gurthalak just at once...
With his test ,we could draw three conclusions that:

first,procs rate 2% and the procs is not ICD (same as most of the people)

second, the tentacle's dmg is spell dmg, it can be increased the dmg by the spell Dmg debuffs ,such as Curse of the Elements

third ,and it is paramount that Gurthalak can be multi triggered by AOE when you attack the multi targets.

Posted Image

eg: A B C three targets , you cast cleave to them . the procs can be trggered 3 tentacles ...

it is very imba in the AOE situation. World of Tentacles


If that's true, then there's a possibility that casting a Whirlwind on twenty mobs, will spawn 40 tentacles?
Something tells me that this might be eligable for a nerf, because that is just staggering considering they apparently do around 100k damage over 3 Mind Flay's/10 seconds. If they don't despawn after combat, and there's an AoE pack right before the boss, we could see some very skewed burst numbers.

#32 Furrymaker

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Posted 30 November 2011 - 02:45 PM

Has anyone had a chance to do any testing on ? I picked this up last night and recount showed it doing 3.5% to 6% of my damage with some procs critting for over 60k. Unfortunately we had an issue with our logs and I don't have any data from fights with the trinket. While unreliable, the procs could be incredible for aoe situations. If the proc on this trinket scales with AP as reported and truly does such a large portion of a warrior's damage I can see it challenging the other available trinkets, at least situationally.
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#33 Eetabeetay

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 05:43 AM

Got Gur'thalak tonight then brought it to heroic rag.
In case anyone wanted more data on it -
Here's our logs: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
The tentacle did 1276.6 DPS.

#34 Saburo

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 07:22 AM

Creche of the Final Dragon: 100s ICD


I have this on live and I am almost positive that the ICD is 2 minutes. I think you may be looking at the time between the buff ending and it appearing again since the duration is 20 seconds.

#35 Fearnot

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 08:22 AM

Just to confirm some of the information going around. Small sample size but its all I had time for tonight.

The proc is very RNG. I went about 6 million damage doing an actual rotation on a dummy without a single proc, yet on another run I had 3 up at one time from only 1 sword after about 600k damage.

Different tentacles can and will attack the same target and it almost feels like they attack w/e you are targeting when they spawn even if they multi spawn from WW/Cleave. After that target dies they seem to have a mind of their own and choose w/e they want.

Average damage of the tentacle. 11 spawned total.
Posted Image

amount of melee and cleave hits in this run.
Posted Image

2 up at a time from 1 cleave. both attacking my original target.
Posted Image

#36 juv3nile

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 08:53 AM

Looking at a log from some random guild I was looking at, it looks like it scales from haste? Or maybe it has a higher uptime if you are only using one 2her versus dual wielding. The tick damage is exactly the same, so it doesnt scale from spellpower or anything like that. But he has double the ticks basically and double the dps from it. That stays the same through every fight. It literally just seems it has double the uptime as the pally. Can someone test it as arms and see if you see a higher uptime vs fury? Or maybe there is something with the pally that makes it proc more

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis - Pally

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis - Warrior

#37 meteo

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Posted 01 December 2011 - 09:33 AM

2 up at a time from 1 cleave. both attacking my original target.


This makes me ask two questions and perhaps someone can answer it: What target priority do the tentacles use (Your target, random enemy in range or target they procced from in case of cleaves) and do the tentacles attack an other mob when their first target dies?

Concerning the logs:
Hits which could have procced the weapon assuming the warrior has a 3.6 offhand (cant acces the armory atm):
189 (warrior) vs 139 hits + eventually all the seal proccs (296) = 435

Seeing that he got about twice the proccs from the weapons as the warrior the seals seem to procc it too.

#38 Fearnot

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 04:38 AM

After some more extensive testing I can confirm a few more things

Confirmed
- Tentacles do scale with target debuffs that increase spell damage, but not player buffs
- They will pick a new target if the original target dies, tho sometimes they spaz out and don't find a new target till its too late.

As for targeting, I thinks its proximity based. I stood between 2 targets and only attacked the one infront of me. Any tentacle that spawned in front attacked the target infront of me, any behind attacked the one behind me.

I stood between 4 targets and hit bladestorm and had 6 tentacles spawn all over the place all attacking different targets, it was pretty nuts.

#39 Kaljurei

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 08:55 AM

I have this on live and I am almost positive that the ICD is 2 minutes. I think you may be looking at the time between the buff ending and it appearing again since the duration is 20 seconds.


But that doesn't make any sense. Proc Trinkets are supposed to have an ICD of (5xBuff Duration). There has been only a single Trinket that doesn't follow that rule, from what I know of, and that is Dwyer's Caber. I don't have the trinket so I haven't been able to test, but can you check whether it's always proccing after 120 seconds and not 100 seconds?

#40 Saburo

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 11:02 PM

But that doesn't make any sense. Proc Trinkets are supposed to have an ICD of (5xBuff Duration). There has been only a single Trinket that doesn't follow that rule, from what I know of, and that is Dwyer's Caber. I don't have the trinket so I haven't been able to test, but can you check whether it's always proccing after 120 seconds and not 100 seconds?


Ok, I tested it using the Proculas addon and the fastest I could get it to proc out of 32 samples was just a fraction over 115 seconds by spamming cleave and WW near the end of the proc cooldown. Spamming at any time before that has no effect. Almost all the procs were between 115 and 123 seconds.




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