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[Balance] Cataclysm 4.2 Firelands (OLD)


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#501 Erdluf

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 02:13 PM

Rawr reported a better result for it at one point, but it wasn't explained by what mechanism their model had the bonus adding more DPS.


There were a few issues. Largest (by far) was that Rawr was double-counting Starsurge damage. At the place where he summed the damage from all sources, he included SS twice in the sum.

That was fixed in the code on Oct 1. I believe first release with the fix was Oct 16.

#502 Tecton

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 02:01 PM

A few points for the main thread to update when you're doing a sweep, Hamlet:

Spec

Lunar Shower isn't used at all for PvE now since the change. It was a source of some debate at the beginning of the tier, but I'm fairly sure everyone has dropped it by now.

The standard spec could use updated too, removing Lunar Shower/BotG and grabbing Dreamstate/Gale Winds while having a couple of points left over for Furor/Perseverance/personal choice. Example: WoW Talent Calculator - Sigrie.

Glyphs

While using 4t13, dropping glyph of Insect Swarm for the glyph of Starsurge (assuming we can Starfall every Lunar Eclipse as a result) is looking like slightly more DPS. Probably worth a footnote. This might get tricky to assess for mult-target situations, to compare the loss from multi-dotting to the extra stars from Starfall. As a sidenote, it's still appearing as Glyph of Nourish.

Glyph of Innervate is probably worth pointing out too since it was changed if you plan on innervating healers/etc. Doesn't increase personal mana gain any more.

Gems

The new epic gems are:

Red (50 int): Brilliant Queen's Garnet - Item - World of Warcraft
Orange (25 int/haste): Reckless Lava Coral - Item - World of Warcraft
Purple (25 spi/int): Purified Shadow Spinel - Item - World of Warcraft

Set Bonuses

Obviously, still up in the air, but it's looking like it won't be worthwhile upgrading until you can get the 4t13 bonus with 3/4 Heroic pieces, assuming you have 4t12 with 4x391 pieces.

Trinkets

Notable trinkets this tier are:

Will of Unbinding - Item - World of Warcraft - Stacking Int buff on damage, totalling 780/880/990 Intellect fully stacked.
Insignia of the Corrupted Mind - Item - World of Warcraft - Massive Haste proc, lasting 20 seconds.
Bottled Wishes - Item - World of Warcraft - Lots of passive Haste, and a spellpower on-use effect.

For AOE situations, this might shine:

Cunning of the Cruel - Item - World of Warcraft

Enchants

Depending on gear setup, Greater Mastery on gloves is a viable enchant too. Similarly, some profiles use Haste on bracers rather than Int to sneak past a breakpoint.

Professions

It's probably worth noting that since they reverted the buff to Jewelcrafting gems, once you're using all epic gems (a while off, admittedly) it obviously loses some of it's value (down to 51 net Int gain).

#503 Boomkiñ

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 07:04 AM

Id like to post that I have tested both haste and Mastery reforging and I have gotten to notice I do more damage output in Mastery BUT I rely on a DI to do this. Anyone else try this yet?

#504 Latas

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 07:54 AM

Id like to post that I have tested both haste and Mastery reforging and I have gotten to notice I do more damage output in Mastery BUT I rely on a DI to do this. Anyone else try this yet?


Wouldn't that depend on your values of haste for both reforges?

#505 Boomkiñ

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 08:24 AM

Well Pretty much I would be sitting at about 1600 haste, with 20.01+ mastery, with a DI I have held 30k+ on a target dummy but as haste I cant hold 25k+ as haste. What are your thoughts about this. Ive ranked as mastery reforged on various fights but cant even get in the top 200 as haste.

#506 nephyron

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 11:45 PM

I was going to try the mastery reforge thing on Wrathcalc and noticed that changing the options 5% haste and 8% spell damage don't affect dps.

#507 azzagachoo

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 11:54 PM

I was going to try the mastery reforge thing on Wrathcalc and noticed that changing the options 5% haste and 8% spell damage don't affect dps.


I presume that's because you still have moonkin form and earth and moon in your spec, however removing either of these will reduce your dps more than just losing the 5% haste and 8% spell damage would account for since they have other benefits strapped onto them.

#508 Boomkiñ

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 02:38 AM

Well like I said I have ranked in BWD (my test) as mastery but have not as haste no where near the top 200, Id be happy to take a screenshot or w/e of my dps on a target dummy with mastery and a DI if that helps at all, but personally I find so long as you have a DI and keep NG up when applying moonfire/sunfire, your total dps output is higher than sitting at say 2639 haste with 15.00 or so mastery.

#509 Latas

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 02:42 AM

Just checking but you do have DI when you are reforged haste right?

#510 Boomkiñ

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 07:07 AM

Yah I typically get DI when reforged haste as well , but the 1 extra tick is nothing compared to having abour 3k more damage per tick and increased damage from starfire/wrath. Mastery Reforging is all about knowing how to manage your dots making sure that ur sunfire/moonfire is the one AFFECTED by natures grace and not ur insect swarm to get maximum damage.

#511 Stommped

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:38 PM

Yah I typically get DI when reforged haste as well , but the 1 extra tick is nothing compared to having abour 3k more damage per tick and increased damage from starfire/wrath. Mastery Reforging is all about knowing how to manage your dots making sure that ur sunfire/moonfire is the one AFFECTED by natures grace and not ur insect swarm to get maximum damage.



Well I can tell you that 3 of the 5 fights you parsed in BWD (Magmaw, ODS, Maloriak) are extremely cleavy fights that favor sitting in Solar to dot multiple targets and Wild Mushroom. It is a safe bet to assume that Mastery will surpass haste in these situations. I believe someone posted Simcraft results awhile back that if you are multi dotting on Shannox effectively in your Eclipse, that Mastery pretty much is equivalent to haste. Now these fights have more than 3 targets to dot/aoe (when you consider Slimes in ODS), so mastery indeed should yield higher DPS.

This should not be the case for your single target fights, Atramedes and Chimaeron. Your WoL records do not show any other BWD 10m other than the one the 12th when you got these 5 rankings. If you're saying you ranked 5 times w/ Mastery reforged in BWD, but failed to rank w/ Haste reforged in the BOT 10m you did on the 24th then you are comparing Apples to Oranges. With no other BWD being recorded, there is no way to know that you couldn't have parsed higher with haste reforged (at least on Atramedes and Chimaeron).

As far as the training dummy results you are seeing, it doesn't make sense. You should log at least 5mins on a dummy in both gear sets, with the same buffs and only dotting 1 target. A screenshot of Recount is not enough as we cannot break down the damage of each spell. From there we should be able to figure out why you seeing those numbers.

#512 Latas

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 07:55 PM

3k per tick more for a difference of 5 mastery seems way off. 5 mastery would give you a total of 10% more damage and for you to be getting 3k more per tick that would have to be a 30k tick base.

#513 Boomkiñ

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 09:43 PM

There are more logs of BWD under a different name on a different server that I was on about a month ago, if you looking through the logs for LOST TIME on cenarius u will find this same character in BWD there with far less damage on all the same fights.

#514 Latas

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 02:52 AM

There are more logs of BWD under a different name on a different server that I was on about a month ago, if you looking through the logs for LOST TIME on cenarius u will find this same character in BWD there with far less damage on all the same fights.


How about you give us a chardev of each setup so we can see what we are comparing.

#515 Larron

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 10:07 PM

Does anyone know if Spell-Weaving on Madness of Deathwing scales with Lunar eclipse? If so, might be worth going for some extra mastery on this fight?




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