# [Feral-Bear] Cataclysm 4.3 (Dragon Soul)

## 100 posts in this topic

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= Introduction=

This post contains information about tanking as a feral druid in a high end raid setting. It should be enough for beginners to gain a solid grasp on the fundamentals of the spec, and should also be a reference for players who have specific questions about our mechanics.

We'll go into more detail later, but if you have specific gearing questions you can use Rawr - Rawr or Tangedyn's spreadsheet - Simple Bear Mitigation Spreadsheet | The Inconspicuous Bear

This comes up constantly so make a note of it right here - Rawr is completely dependent on the settings you use. If your settings are wrong then you will get wrong information. Take care when using Rawr that all of the settings are correct. If you're still confused by the results then post the Rawr profile you used so that others can check that your settings are correct. Failure to do so will result in infractions.

I will do my best to keep this post up to date, but if you find something that is old or just plain wrong please send me a PM so that I can fix it quickly. Thank you.

= Overview=

As a tank you have two main jobs: Keep the boss from attacking the other players in your raid and take as little damage as possible. At this time holding aggro is pretty simple so most of the suggestions made in this post will focus on reducing your damage intake.

You may also be called on to help the raid in other ways, such as interrupting, using Innervate or Rebirth, or even helping dps during periods of time that you don't have to tank. Look for opportunities to use all of the tools available to you as a feral druid.

= Talents and Glyphs=

== Spec==

For choosing Feral as your spec you get Aggression (increases your AP by 25%), Vengeance (will be discussed later), and the ability Mangle. We also get a 2 part mastery, one for cats and one for bears. The bear portion of our mastery is called Savage Defender and increases the damage absorbed by Savage Defense by 4% per point of mastery.

For tanking you absolutely want to take Feral Swiftness, Infected Wounds, Primal Fury, Feral Charge, Thick Hide, Leader of the Pack, Survival Instincts, Endless Carnage, Natural Reaction, Rend and Tear, Pulverize, Berserk, and Heart of the Wild. A basic spec will look something like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft. Here is my personal take on how the optional talents stack up:

Perseverance - Really strong talent, any full time tanking build needs this. Only consider skipping if you are building a hybrid dps/tanking spec and can't spare the points.

Master Shapeshifter - Pretty expensive but generally worth the points.

Fury Swipes - Not strictly necessary to tank, but it's a solid damage increase and there's almost always room for it. Drop something else unless your build is very specifically tailored to a single fight and every point is already taken.

Furor - Pretty weak but you need at least 1 point to advance down the tree and Predatory Strikes has no use at all while tanking, so you may as well fill this out.

King of the Jungle - You can use Enrage on cooldown now so this is free damage. Like Fury Swipes, there's usually something else you can drop in favor of this. And you absolutely need this for a hybrid spec.

Feral Aggression - Convenient for getting a full stack of Faerie Fire up right away, but not a necessity.

Stampede - Very slight threat increase any time you feral charge, you can skip this pretty much every time.

Primal Madness - Pretty weak for the cost considering you need 3 points in KotJ to even get here, but can be worthwhile if you need the damage and have the points to spare.

Brutal Impact - Required if you have to interrupt or stun ever, useless otherwise.

Nurturing Instinct - Will give you a really strong Tranquility if you get the chance to use it, but useless otherwise.

== Glyphs==

There is only one glyph that affects your survivability as a tank, so there is plenty of room to mix and match.

=== Prime Glyphs===

[item]Glyph of Berserk[/item]

[item]Glyph of Lacerate[/item]

[item]Glyph of Mangle[/item]

None of the other prime glyphs affect you in bear form, so for full time tanks these are what you have to work with.

=== Major Glyphs===

[item]Glyph of Faerie Fire[/item]

[item]Glyph of Feral Charge[/item]

[item]Glyph of Frenzied Regeneration[/item]

[item]Glyph of Maul[/item]

[item]Glyph of Rebirth[/item]

The Frenzied Regen glyph is the only one that affects your survivability and it comes with a drawback. Faerie Fire, Feral Charge, and Maul glyphs are mostly for quality of life.

The one major glyph that I strongly recommend for all feral tanks is actually the Rebirth glyph. Even as a tank it's usually possible to toss a quick Rebirth at some point in a fight, and there is a world of difference between resurrecting someone mid-fight with 20% health and 100% health. This isn't quite as good now that battle rezzes are available to other classes, but Rebirth is still the strongest since you can rez at 100% health so if possible you should still try to use yours.

=== Minor Glyphs===

[item]Glyph of Challenging Roar[/item]

[item]Glyph of Dash[/item]

Glyph of Mark of the Wild

[item]Glyph of Unburdened Rebirth[/item]

These are the only minor glyphs with any possible in-combat usefulness. Feel free to use other minor glyphs for quality of life purposes.

= Gear=

== Stats==

General information on combat ratings can be found here: http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29453-combat_ratings_level_85_cataclysm/

Armor

Arguably the most important stat for tanks, armor consistently reduces your damage taken from physical attacks, which is almost always going to be your highest source of damage taken. With the Thick Hide talent and the Austere meta gem we have a 4.393752 multiplier on armor from leather gear. The amount of armor on gear is directly related to its item level and you can't gem for it, so the only way to "stack" armor is by using an armor trinket.

Agility

Agility increases your attack power, chance to crit, and chance to dodge. It does not provide armor anymore. Each point of agility provides 2 AP, which is good for both threat and Savage Defense. It takes 324.85 agility for 1% crit and 243.58281085 agility for 1% dodge (see the above link for details on diminishing returns). Agility is one of your primary mitigation stats. Like armor and stamina the amount of agility on gear is tied to item level, but it can also be affected by the presence of gem slots.

Stamina

Stamina is one of your most important tanking stats. With Heart of the Wild we gain 18.6984 health per point of Stamina (19.63332 with Mark of the Wild). Like armor, the amount of stamina on an item is directly tied to its item level. Stamina also increases your Vengeance cap by 1 AP per stamina.

Dodge

Although none of our gear (aside from possibly trinkets) comes with dodge on it, you can reforge your gear for dodge. It takes 176.71899 dodge rating for 1 point of dodge. The mechanics of diminishing returns on dodge can be found in the above link.

Mastery

It takes 179.28 mastery rating to gain 1 point of mastery. Each point of mastery increases the size of your Savage Defense shield by 4%. Mastery and crit interact in a fairly complicated way when it comes to Savage Defense, so you should use Rawr or the spreadsheet to help you determine which is better for your current gear setup.

Crit

You need 179.28 crit rating to gain 1% crit chance. Increasing your crit chance increases your threat and also increases your Savage Defense procs.

Hit/Expertise

You need 120.109 hit/expertise rating for 1% hit/expertise. These are the best secondary stats to increase your threat and have marginal effects on Savage Defense uptime. Mobs do not parry-haste anymore so expertise is no longer a significant defensive stat, however expertise is twice as effective as hit up to 6.5%, since it works on both dodge and parry. As of 4.1 you need neither hit nor expertise to interrupt.

Haste

You need 128.05701 haste rating for 1% haste. Haste increases your melee attack speed, which will increase your threat. It also has a marginal effect on Savage Defense uptime. However, in both cases haste is very weak and should generally be avoided in favor of something else.

== Gems==

Your only real meta gem choice for tanking is [item]Austere Shadowspirit Diamond[/item]. In specific cases you may find [item]Effulgent Shadowspirit Diamond[/item] or [item]Powerful Shadowspirit Diamond[/item] useful, but generally speaking Austere will be just fine.

For the rest you'll mostly want agility or stamina. If you're ever in doubt you can default to [item]Delicate Queen's Garnet[/item], but be sure to keep your meta gem activated. Use Rawr or the spreadsheet to help you figure out what you need.

== Set bonuses==

The 2T13 bonus causes Mangle crits to have a 100% chance to proc Savage Defense if you have Pulverize up. This doesn't change anything in terms of rotation or gear, but it's now more important to make sure you have maximum uptime on Pulverize.

The 4T13 bonus turns Frenzied Regeneration into a raid cooldown. This let's you be part of a raid cooldown rotation on fights that require it, but in those cases it also relgates FR to an absolute last resort as a personal cooldown. Unless and until someone provides evidence to the contrary, Xenoborg's work is the final say in the mechanics of this bonus:

1. When you cast Frenzied Regen a separate buff called Mass Regeneration is applied to the raid, correct?

Yes, spell ID here :Mass Regeneration - Spell - World of Warcraft

2. If you then swap to cat form do you get a Mass Regen buff on yourself or do you lose all benefits?

You lose all benefits, the raid continues to have the benefits. They won't get healing, but still get the increased healing taken.

3. Are there any notable limitations to how the buff is applied, such as range, different phases, etc.?

The spell data from above indicates range to be 100y.

4. What happens if you cast Frenzied Regen while you still have the debuff from shifting into bear form?

You get the normal effects as if you did not have the 4pc.

5. The current consensus seems to be that the health buff applied to raid members is 15% of the bear's max hp, is this accurate?

Yes, regardless of buffs on yourself or raid member it takes a snapshot of your health increase at cast and gives half of that to the raid.


Char   After     Before   Increase
Xeno	257936	198413	59523
1	170410	140649	29761
2	178822	149061	29761
3	232926	203165	29761
4	178914	149153	29761
5	163340	133579	29761
6	175938	146177	29761
7	167426	137665	29761
8	173292	143531	29761
9	163823	134062	29761
10	167372	137611	29761
11	165440	135679	29761
12	173054	143293	29761
13	171388	141627	29761
[/code]

[b]6.	Additionally, temporary health buffs such as Power Word: Fortitude and Rallying Cry increase the Mass Regen health buff, correct?[/b]
Yes, they increased both the health given and the healing done by mass regeneration ticks in proportion with the tanks increased health.

[b]7.	What happens if temporary health buffs are gained or lost after Mass Regen has been applied, on either the bear or the other raid members?[/b]
Losing a health buff mid regen (I click off my mark of the wild) reduced healing tics to their new expected value.  It did not reduce the health bonus.

[b]8.	If Frenzied Regen is glyphed then raid members gain 15% healing taken with Mass Regen, correct?[/b]
It still gives a 30% increase to healing received.
Testing with a priest using desperate prayer, which heals for a set 30% of current max health (+6% and +12% from other priest talents)
Before, 142k, healed for 50.57k
After, 177k healed for 82.0k (That is 63.04 from new max health + 30% healing bonus for mass regen)

[b]9.	If Frenzied Regen is not glyphed then raid members are healed for 1.5% of the bear's max hp every second, correct?[/b]
After the nerf, it is now 0.75% of the bears max health a second, if 10 rage is consumed (0.075% per rage consumed).  As seen 2 posts previous.

[b]10.	Does this healing depend on whether or not the bear who used Frenzied Regen has rage?[/b]
Yes, directly proportional to rage consumed.

[b]11.	Does this healing continue to work if the bear changes form, dies, enters a different phase, etc.?[/b]
Dieing or changing form stops any healing you may have been giving, but does not effect the increased health or healing taken buffs on the raid. Tested it just now, it does not apply to people in other phases.  The healing applies to whoever is in the same phase as you at any given moment.  The health increase and healing taken increase apply to whoever is in your phase at the start and will stay on regardless of phasing.

[b]12.	This healing can crit and also benefits from talents and abilities that increase healing taken, correct?[/b]
Yes.  Whether or not it crits on you is independent from if it crits on other people, crits on you do not heal them for more.  Crit rate on 1500 ticks was ~16, near to my raid buffed spell crit.
Thursday - WOL example showing crits and a warlock (Demon armor) and a feral cat (Nurturing Instinct) taking more healing.

Thanks to Xenoborg for his testing on this topic.

== Enchants==

Head: Arcanum of the Earthen Ring (90 stamina/35 dodge, revered Earthen Ring) or Arcanum of the Ramkahen (60 agility/35 haste, revered Ramkahen)
Shoulder: Greater Inscription of Unbreakable Quartz (75 stamina/25 dodge, exalted Therazane) or Greater Inscription of Shattered Crystal (50 agility/25 mastery, exalted Therazane)
Back: Major Agility (22 agility) or Protection (250 armor)
Chest: Greater Stamina (75 stamina) or Peerless Stats (20 to all stats)
Wrists: Agility (50 agility)
Hands: Glove Reinforcements (240 armor) or Heavy Savage Armor Kit (44 stamina) or Greater Mastery (65 mastery) or Major Agility (20 agility)
Legs: Charscale Leg Armor (145 stamina/55 agility)
Feet: Heavy Savage Armor Kit (44 stamina) or Assassin's Step (25 agility/minor run speed) or Major Agility (35 agility) or Earthen Vitality (30 stamina/minor run speed)
Weapon: Mighty Agility (130 agility) or Windwalk (600 dodge/increased move speed on proc) or Mending (heal on proc)

== Professions==

Blacksmithing offers more agility than any other profession once you're able to fill every socket with epic gems, and the second most stamina.  Leatherworking offers more stamina than any other profession.  Once every sockets can be filled with epic gems Jewelcrafting becomes markedly worse than most of the other options.

Alchemy: 120 stamina from [item]Flask of Steelskin[/item] or 80 agility from [item]Flask of the Winds[/item].  Resistance flasks or armor elixirs are also possibilities.  You also gain access to [item]Lifebound Alchemist Stone[/item], which is potentially useful for a new tank.
Blacksmithing: 2 extra sockets for up to 150 extra stamina from [item]Solid Deepholm Iolite[/item] or 100 agility from [item]Delicate Queen's Garnet[/item].  The best profession at this time.
Enchanting: 120 stamina or 80 agility from ring enchants.
Engineering: Quickflip Deflection Plates - Spell - World of Warcraft boost armor by 1500 for 12 seconds on a 1 minute cooldown or Synapse Springs boost agility by 480 for 10 seconds on a 1 minute cooldown.  Also Grounded Plasma Shield - Spell - World of Warcraft
Herbalism: Minor heal and 480 haste for 20 seconds on a 2 minute cooldown.
Inscription: 120 stamina or 80 agility from shoulder enchant.
Jewelcrafting: Up to 78 stamina or 51 agility from Chimera's Eye gems once all sockets can be filled with epic gems.  Among the weakest professions at this time.
Leatherworking: 155 stamina or 80 agility.  Gives more stamina than other professions and can also be useful for the level 80 resistance enchants.
Mining: 120 stamina.
Skinning: 80 crit.
Tailoring: Swordguard Embroidery - Spell - World of Warcraft chance to proc 1000 AP for 15 seconds.

== How to Gear==

Generally speaking you want to look for the highest item level agility gear you can find.  This is because armor, stamina, and for the most part agility directly correlate with item level.  Agility jewelery is better than even perfectly itemized strength tanking jewelery.  You'll want to reforge haste/hit/expertise to dodge, crit, or mastery if possible.  Use Rawr or the spreadsheet to determine which of the three is your best bet.

As a tank you need to be ready to alter your gear between fights if needed (note: trinkets are an excellent way to easily swap around large amounts of armor/stamina/agility).  There is no one gearset for tanking that applies equally well to all fights.  Again: There is no one gearset that is optimal for tanking for all fights.  Test out different gearing strategies and talk to your healers to determine what's best for your raid.

= Rotation=

For the basic tanking rotation you want to follow a short set of rules:

1. Keep Demoralizing Roar up
2. Mangle on cooldown
3. Keep up at least 1 stack of Lacerate
4. Thrash
5. Keep up the Pulverize buff
6. Keep up a 3 stack of Lacerate
7. Faerie Fire
8. Lacerate as a filler
9. Spend excess rage on Maul

Keeping up Demoralizing Roar is the most important part of your rotation.  If you Mangle on cooldown and spam Lacerate in between you'll hold threat over 98% of dps players.  Keeping up Pulverize is very important defensively, especially with the 2T13 bonus.  On multi-target/AoE situations use Thrash and Swipe on cooldown while spreading Mangles, Lacerates, and Mauls around.  Also keep in mind that different situations may call for slight differences in priority.  For example, Pulverize can be moved up in the priority if every ounce of survivability is critical, but at the cost of some threat/damage.

= Raid Utility=

As mentioned above, as druids we offer a lot of potential raid utility even while tanking.  Most fights have downtime or tank swaps that allow you to use Rebirth or Innervate if needed, so keep your eyes open for these opportunities.  If you have a fairly extended period of time that you aren't tanking you can use Tranquility as well, which is quite powerful now.  Ferals are great at interrupting with 2/2 Brutal Impact thanks to the 13 yard range on Skull Bash, so help out on interrupts when needed.  Also be aware that with 4T13 Frenzied Regeneration becomes a raid cooldown, allowing you to help out in situations of high raid damage.

We are also hands down the best at swapping between dpsing and tanking in a single fight.  You can pick up every major tanking and dps talent in a single spec, you can use all dps glyphs since our tanking glyphs are very marginal, and agility serves both specs quite well.  On any boss that allows a tank to dps for parts of the fight, a feral should take that role.  This would be my recommended setup: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft  Spend the final 3 points in some combination of Perseverance, Brutal Impact, and Nurturing Instinct.  Agility is best for both so gemming overlaps.  Lean towards reforging crit/mastery since those are beneficial to both, but if the fight demands it you may have to reforge some dodge as well.

= Mechanics=

== Vengeance==

Every time you are attacked while in bear form you gain 5% of the damage done as attack power, up to a cap.  Despite the tooltip your vengeance cap is stamina + 0.1*base_health.  Vengeance decays over time so you must keep getting hit to keep it up, and is removed completely if you shift to cat form.

Note: At this time Vengeance does not appear to be decaying.  Whether this is intentional or a bug is unknown, I'll update this section once we know more.

== Armor, Dodge, Base stats==

Whitetooth has done an incredible job on the formulas for armor, dodge, resistance, and has base stats information.  Instead of repeating it all here just follow this link: http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t29453-combat_ratings_level_85_cataclysm/

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Out with the old, in with the new. As always feel free to PM me about any issues you have with the guide.

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I haven't seen any information about testing our new 4pc set bonus so here are some results from last night:

Always gives the raid 30% more hp.

If not glyphed will heal each person for up to 3% of the tanks max health per second.

If glyphed the raid will also get 30% increased healing.

Additionally, after shifting into bear you get a 15s debuff called recently shifted so you will know how long you need to wait to use it.

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Always gives the raid 30% more hp.

If not glyphed will heal each person for up to 3% of the tanks max health per second.

If glyphed the raid will also get 30% increased healing.

This sounds odd.

Glyph reads: While Frenzied Regeneration is active, healing effects on you are 30% more powerful but causes your Frenzied Regeneration to no longer convert rage into health.

Yet, the way you make it sound, when glyphed you get the "rage conversion" healing as well as 30% increased healing. Is this true?

Or did you mean to say:

You get 30% increased health and either:

A) 3% of tanks max health per second (unglyphed)

or

B) 30% increased healing (glyhped).

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Worth noting that Vengeance does not seem to decay, ever, so long as you are taking some kind of damage every 2 seconds, even if you avoid. I don't know if this is a bug or intentional, but I believe Tangedyn has updated his spreadsheet to reflect this. Dellingr (my warrior co-tank) and I tested it out yesterday, and naked cat whacking him for 31-ish blocked damage was causing his vengeance to go up (albeit slowly) even through the misses, dodges, and parries.

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My Bear Spreadsheet has been updated for 4.3

2T13 bonus is ~400 AEP worth of mitigation.

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Or did you mean to say:

You get 30% increased health and either:

A) 3% of tanks max health per second (unglyphed)

or

B) 30% increased healing (glyhped).

Yeah this is what I meant, sorry if I wrote it in a weird way.

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I'd like to know wether it's better to reforge into exp/mas instead of dodge. Rawr has recently suggested exp/mas is much better.

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I'd like to know wether it's better to reforge into exp/mas instead of dodge. Rawr has recently suggested exp/mas is much better.

In order to get accurate stat weights, you need to know what the unmitigated boss damage is. Exp/Mastery tend to show better results when the damage threshold is low. That's something we are still working on, though I imagine for normal DS you can get by just fine with an exp/mastery build. Heroic DS, I'd bet my reputation on Dodge still being the superior choice as far as reducing damage.

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As Rawr is so dependent on its settings, from this point on anyone who thinks Rawr is giving them strange or bad information needs to include their Rawr profile when asking for advice. It is impossible to give accurate feedback without knowing what settings you're using, especially since 98% of issues are the direct result of using improper settings.

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As Rawr is so dependent on its settings, from this point on anyone who thinks Rawr is giving them strange or bad information needs to include their Rawr profile when asking for advice. It is impossible to give accurate feedback without knowing what settings you're using, especially since 98% of issues are the direct result of using improper settings.

Rawr4 Repository:

US.Kil'jaeden.Silverose.Bear

It's possible I'm using improper settings, so please let me know if that's the case. Rawr is suggesting exp/mas is roughly twice as valuable as dodge, when reforging. This is true for both 10/25 man raid setups. I hadn't read much about this previously, so I was curious about it, and thought it should maybe be explained in the intro to this thread. Thanks for responding earlier.

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I'm having the same issue. If you look at the RSV graph and the mastery RVS is very high, try changing the type of boss under the boss handler from whatever it defaults to on load, to any other one. Before I did that, mastery was valued at near 3x what it was after I changed it. For me, all the RSV were inflated in some way or another, but mastery was more than everything else.

Agi 226

Mastery 165

Armor 147

Exp 145

Dodge 89

After switching to the average boss, and then back to easy(this was the only thing I changed), the RSVs changed to this:

Agi 102

Armor 83

Dodge 66

Mastery 54

Exp 44

This happens on a fresh reload of my profile, and US.Kil'jaeden.Silverose.Bear. I'm no expert in Rawr or RVSs in general, but going through the other bosses listed in both 10N and 10H, Morchok, Zon'ozz, and Madness have very large values for the RSVs. Does Rawr, with a fresh load, do some kind of average of all the bosses to give you a general RSV for that tier?

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I just tested the 4 piece druid tanking bonus and it only gives a 15% hp bonus for everyone else, VS the 30% I see in the OP. Let me know if you guys want me to test anything else.

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I just tested the 4 piece druid tanking bonus and it only gives a 15% hp bonus for everyone else, VS the 30% I see in the OP. Let me know if you guys want me to test anything else.

Are you sure about this, I just tested it a few more times and it seems like its 30%. The % is a little off, but Im pretty sure its just because I have health bars rounding to the nearest 1k.


Char     Before         After        Increase

Myself	  222k       	288k	       1.30

R Druid	  129k	        162k	       1.26

Rouge	  141k	        185k	       1.31

Shaman	  127k	        171k           1.34

Hunter	  154k 	        198k	       1.29

Warlock	  143k	        187k	       1.31



edit: We all had Mark, but no other health affecting buffs.

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Checking around I've seen claims of both 15% and 30% health to the raid. Screenshots might help clear up the confusion, especially if the disparity is due to strange interactions with other buffs or talents.

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When I mouse over the buff, it says 15% HP and 30% healing glyphed.

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Tooltips are very often incorrect, you should compare health before and after to see what the buff actually is.

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I was testing the 4pc myself and got similar results where it seemed to be above 15%, but less than 30%. Something of interest is that a quick search through wowhead brings up some good points.

Here is Frenzied Regeneration: Frenzied Regeneration - Spell - World of Warcraft (click to see values). Notice the "max health" value is set at 30.

Here is Mass Regeneration(the raid buff): Mass Regeneration - Spell - World of Warcraft (click to see values). The "max health" value is set at 15.

I tested it both unglyphed and glyphed and the hp bonus was the same amount. Will be nice next week when more people have the 4pc to mess around with.

I am going to do some more testing during our raid on Sunday to see if I can nail down the exact amount it's currently giving.

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Did some testing with the unglyphed version of the 4pc tonight in DS/Firelands. It actually is kind of a lot of HPS (bursting up to 45k+ in Firelands). During Madness of Deathwing one use at the correct time yielded around ~6.7million of raid healing, with a very low margin of overhealing ~5-6%. There could be some situations where it's more useful than the glyphed version. Also, if you are still doing Baelroc and get HP stacks, use your 4pc for the most ungodly HPS you'll ever see.

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This is just me for the stat priority, I reforge to ensure get as close to hit/exp cap (hell even used agi/hit gems if i like the socket bonus) then the rest dodge. Mastery is a good stat but with some of the fights and 2 tanking mastery still does not weigh up as much as dodge. I am a firm believer in mastery has lower priority if you dont have hit/exp cap'd cause there will be no SD proc if you miss or get parried/dodged. I do focus on reforging to hit/exp since the DR I currently have on dodge is just retarded and I know as I move from H FL to DS gear it will be even worse.

I do have a question about armor though, is there a cap on it at 75% reduction or did i miss read that? If there is by chance does anyone have the actual number that is so I can ensure i dont pass it.

My Druid is Archangelass on Dalaran.

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Armor Reduction Formula for level 81 and up

The armor reduction formula has also been changed for levels 81 and up.

• Level 81 and up:
$DR=\frac{Armor}{Armor + 2167.5 \times Level - 158167.5}$

For tanks, you will want to know what's the armor cap when facing level 88 bosses, here's a quick table:

[table=head]Armor Reduction for level 88 attacker| Armor needed

50%| 32572.5

55% | 39810.8

60% | 48858.7

65% | 60491.7

70% | 76002.5

75% | 97717.5

[/table]

Even in BIS gear you don't have a chance to go much farther than about 60k passive armor, so while there still is a cap, its not really obtainable except during some procs.

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Checking around I've seen claims of both 15% and 30% health to the raid. Screenshots might help clear up the confusion, especially if the disparity is due to strange interactions with other buffs or talents.

Could the shaman healing buff possibly be the culprit on the confusion? Not certain as I don't have 4 piece yet but it could throw the % off a bit giving the timing of the buff being up or down on certain players.

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Yeah this is what I meant, sorry if I wrote it in a weird way.

So if you had ~210k health buffed, that would be ~230k with ancestral healing and ~300k with frenzied regeneration. Thus frenzied regeneration would heal for 9k health per second per player; across 25 players that's 225k health per second.

In order for the 30% healing from the glyph to be better, the healers would need to be doing more than 225k/.3 = 750k healing per second, which is 2-4 times typical burst healing values. Therefore, in almost no cases is the glyph worthwhile. You would use the glyph if only a small fraction of the raid needs healing when you use frenzied regeneration.

Also, if you could use frenzied regeneration on cooldown without overheal it would average 225k/9 = 25k hps over the fight. On Ultraxion it would average 100k hps over the fight.

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I was thinking about trinkets last night and here's what I plan to be using: Any other suggestions or ideas would be appreciated.

Morchok: Wrath of Unchaining (Stacking Agi), Resolve of Undying (Stacking Dodge)

Damage incoming is pretty much all physical, with effects that increase damage taken, further boosting agi/dodge over stam or mastery.

Yorshaj: Wrath, Mirror

Good old mirror comes back again, on a fight where 75%+ of the damage you take is magic, its a no-brainer.

Zon'ozz: Wrath, Mirror

His beam does a lot of damage as a huge spike so probably mirror again.

Hagara: Wrath, Matrix

Even on heroic tank damage was very low on the PTR so dodge wouldn't be as good. Not enough unavoidable magic damage to need mirror. Lots of time off the boss means stacking trinkets will probably fall, and will give plenty of time for Matrix to come back off CD.

Ultraxion: Wrath, Indomitable Pride (Stam, Shield Proc)

A close call, but for now I'm going to use Indomitable both because Ultraxion can melee pretty hard in the window between CDs, and to have more health for Hour. Resolve could definitely be used here though.

Blackhorn: Wrath, Resolve

Huge tank damage in a short amount of time rules out Indomitable proc, and any increase to the chance to dodge sunder help a lot.

Spine: Wrath, Indomitable Pride (Amalgamation tank) or Matrix (Blood tank)

Infrequent periods of very high mob damage is perfect for Pride. If your on bloods you probably just want to maximize the damage you can do to the tendons.

We spend about 75% of the fight in cat so you want Agi trinkets. Magic damage is too constant for mirror to help much, and Pride won't help with Impales.

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Xeno, I think you nailed it on the trinkets. Great explanation as well! Question for you, take wrath out of the equation, which trinket would you sub in for it? Matrix? Spindle? I could see matrix being a good sub but I think spindle, and even stay/seed have a good arguement as well for the fights where the damage is more predictable.