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[Feral-Cat] Cataclysm 4.3 (Dragon Soul)


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#21 Husyor

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 03:03 PM

Starting with full rage and just auto attacking on a test dummy, I was very easily able to keep enough rage and I didn't use enrage either.

On another note, when you guys drop 4pT12, are you shred spamming during berserk or still using FB once you get 5cp. I know previously I would shred spam, but once I got 4p it was better to FB for the extended duration.

#22 Harlsta

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:58 PM

On another note, when you guys drop 4pT12, are you shred spamming during berserk or still using FB once you get 5cp.


This actually never crossed my mind. Every time I use Berserk, I would spam Shred (while maintaining bleeds) and once I got 5cp I would use FB. I believe just spamming Shred you would lose some dps as you're just wasting cp. But with that if Rip or SR will drop, Id make sure to put them up before I use a FB, Unless I got 5cp up and SR is going to drop, Id use FB and then just put 1 or 2 cp SR just enough to maintain it to finish of Berserk.

#23 Bartesh

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 07:06 PM

I haven't seen this posted on the Feral guides before, but a NElf can shadowmeld in cat form. Doing so allows the use of stealth abilities while stationary; while minor, there are certain scenarios where an immediate stun (Pounce) is helpful, or a Ravage mid-fight (when the target is over 80% health especially). Fights like Madness allow the use of Ravage every two minutes, which can be helpful for starting off on an Arm or Wing for combo points.

~ Prowla (Undermine)

#24 Husyor

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 08:01 AM

This actually never crossed my mind. Every time I use Berserk, I would spam Shred (while maintaining bleeds) and once I got 5cp I would use FB. I believe just spamming Shred you would lose some dps as you're just wasting cp. But with that if Rip or SR will drop, Id make sure to put them up before I use a FB, Unless I got 5cp up and SR is going to drop, Id use FB and then just put 1 or 2 cp SR just enough to maintain it to finish of Berserk.


Well like I said, with 4pcT12, that is definitely the case, I can't remember if they also buffed FB in the same patch to make it better to FB during berserk, but I know prior to 4.2, during berserk you would just shred spam.

Had to do some digging and found this:
Ferocious Bite damage has been increased by 15%. In addition, its base cost has been reduced to 25 energy and it can use up to 25 energy, for up to a 100% damage increase.

#25 reaper1020

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Posted 24 December 2011 - 09:50 PM

Curious question, what kinda formula would i use to calculate the EP/average agility gained from Kiril, Fury of the beasts

not asking you to do the math for me, im wonder how would i set up the formula so i can do it for this item and items alike

#26 david0925

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 04:01 AM

Curious question, what kinda formula would i use to calculate the EP/average agility gained from Kiril, Fury of the beasts

not asking you to do the math for me, im wonder how would i set up the formula so i can do it for this item and items alike


1 ppm, stacking buff starts at 19 seconds left and ends at 0 seconds left

so 1 seconds of 1-9 stacks each, 10 seconds of 10 stacks

#27 asdf01

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 08:21 PM

So, I've looked at several tutorials on rotation feral cat / feral bear .. However they do not teach all the orders which you must use the skills, but simply uses them as I wish someone would show the order to use a rotation with high dps for raid / pvp

#28 ceelion22

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 03:19 PM

So, I've looked at several tutorials on rotation feral cat / feral bear .. However they do not teach all the orders which you must use the skills, but simply uses them as I wish someone would show the order to use a rotation with high dps for raid / pvp


As far as Raids and PvE is concerned there isn't a set "rotation" (beyond the preferred optimized opener). Its more of a priority system now. With procs and CD use the priority shifts and skews so much that saying do step 1-4, rinse repeat just doesn't work.

#29 asdf01

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 03:33 PM

I had seen a druid giving 40k dps, so I get confused to learn that can not reach 20, then wonder what to do and what skills to use

#30 Gaviin

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 06:27 PM

To state the obvious, there's a section in the first post of this thread labeled "Rotation." You should check that out and practice it, as it will get you most of the way to optimal DPS.

#31 Ilmatar

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 07:11 PM

If you are having trouble learning the rotation, the mod 'Ovale' used in combination with the script over on The Fluid Druid is a great way to learn: The Fluid Druid - View topic - Leafkiller's 4.3 Feral Ovale Script

#32 Corren

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 06:30 PM

you should also check the mechanics of the fight. To reach 40K dps, the druid has to be both very good and very well stuffed (heroic 410) or the fight has to include some mechanic buffing dps, like Madness of deathwing or warlord zon'ozz.

#33 Silkworm

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:48 PM

you should also check the mechanics of the fight. To reach 40K dps, the druid has to be both very good and very well stuffed (heroic 410) or the fight has to include some mechanic buffing dps, like Madness of deathwing or warlord zon'ozz.


I have seen 73k on LFR Deathwing without heroic gear. This kitty was in bear form most of the kill combat. So here is the log where he was kitty but it was not a kill.
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis
If you check the armory he is not decked in 410 heroic gear. 391 equipped feral gear.
Snidd @ Nordrassil - Game - World of Warcraft

I tried to calculate his pure dps to compare with my 388 kitty gear dps, which is only 35k at best (10 man). I removed trinket proc, T13 bonus ravages and bear form hits. I have been a tree since vanilla so I'm not your best keyboard bashing dps but I need to understand the difference.

Numbers x1000
44903 total (~45 Mil)
73,3 dps (73300 dps)

44903- (5280(spellweave) + 2150(lightning strike trinket proc) + 859 (4xT13 bonus ravage hits) +350 (bear hits)) =36264 total damage. 36254 / 613 active dps time = 59k dps

Here is our 10 man Deathwing combat from last night, in case anyone can give me some ideas.
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I checked our gear and he is over 600 agi more, %3 crit more. We are both hit capped and expertise almost capped.

Maybe its not a good idea to compare dps on 25 and 10 man. I'm sure we are missing several melee buffs with limited 10 man groups. I will try to post an updated LFR kill as kitty to see better results.

#34 Corren

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:45 PM

Note that I said that the feral had to be very good and well equiped OR that the fight had ton include some buffing dps mechanic.

In 10M raid, in some tries I managed to reach 50Kish dps. My guild finally killed the boss last week without me :(

If you look at some of the first kills, (in heroic mode, though) of great guilds, you'll notice all the dps are at least at 85K dps, so 73.3K in normal mode is not surprising.
His equipment is really good though : both BIS trinkets (one of them is 410 heroic...), BIS weapon in its 403 ilvl version, 4T13, which allows him to ravage for free without using the charge (and since on that fight, the charge can't be used before the last phase, it's a completely pure dps gain).

Understanding the difference between you and this feral is not really difficult : you say you've been mostly a tree so far, that explains almost everything. For every class, not only the feral, you have to be used to its mechanics to perfectly master the "cycle". Once you've mastered it, you have to be able to apply it successfuly on bosses with movements, where dots are harder to refresh and maintain on the target(s), where sometimes Berserk is best to keep for aoe situations, where using charge is impossible and provide less CP etc...

If added to that you don't have the same equipment as him, it's nothing but normal that you can't compete with him.

Oh and in ten man, your dps will always be inferior to a 25man feral druid as good as you, as you pointed out : a question of buffs.

#35 Silkworm

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 09:08 AM

Understanding the difference between you and this feral is not really difficult : you say you've been mostly a tree so far, that explains almost everything. For every class, not only the feral, you have to be used to its mechanics to perfectly master the "cycle". Once you've mastered it, you have to be able to apply it successfuly on bosses with movements, where dots are harder to refresh and maintain on the target(s), where sometimes Berserk is best to keep for aoe situations, where using charge is impossible and provide less CP etc...

If added to that you don't have the same equipment as him, it's nothing but normal that you can't compete with him.

Oh and in ten man, your dps will always be inferior to a 25man feral druid as good as you, as you pointed out : a question of buffs.


I understand this, especially the getting used to melee combat/encounter and getting used to being a dps. But what amazes me still is the difference in numbers. I never expected that, the difference between a regular player like me and a real good dps can be so high even taking into account the gear and buff issues.

Thanks for your insight and on to the learning curve.

#36 Lyricist

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 09:56 PM

Couple other factors to think of, Ciang;

LFR tends to have weaker supporting dps, so the cast time of Cataclysm (with the increased damage buff that comes alongside) has a much greater duration than a well orchestrated guild raid group will have. I have also found that most LFRs tend towards a different strategy for platforms, which can also artificially inflate damage.

As to your dps... first thing, you mangle too much, particularly in a group with another feral who is spending time as a Bear. More uptime on your bleeds and savage roar will also give a nice boost, though the downtime between targets can cause trouble there.

#37 Jerflo

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 09:32 PM

Hey everyone, i'm just curious about my feral dps atm. I've got ilvl 382 gear and am only holding at about 20-21k on the boss dummy (is this any good?). I can't seem to find anybody or popular ferals on my server so i figured i'd ask here where the best are :P. Also can someone explain the reasons to get exp/hit cap now instead of prioritizing crit/exp, and why mastery isn't as good anymore. Here's a link to my armory, Drubomb @ Dragonmaw - Game - World of Warcraft . If anybody has any suggestions or if they could tell me that if i get hit/exp my dps would boost for sure then i'd much appreciate the advice :). Sorry that i could only give the dummy dps, i don't have the most DS progression atm, mostly just LFR. Thanks guys! :D

#38 Corren

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:02 PM

Giving a lfr dps would be way better than the boss dummy, since you would be in a closer raid-like situation. 20-21K on a dummy really doesn't mean anything apart from showing whether or not you have mastered the cycle, and I must admit I wouldn't be able to tell if 21K on a dummy is bad or not. I would rather say yes but well...

As for the stats, in fact, at the very begining of Cataclysm, dots were overpowered because they scaled very highly with the brand new Mastery. After that, patches nerfed our dots and upped our direct attacks : mutilation, shred and ferocious bite. Then, since those don't scale with mastery, the latter lost most of its value.
Now, all stats are rather close to each other, simply because as feral druids we have a rather balanced style of dps, our dots being as important as our direct damages.
But being hit/exp capped still isn't required. You can perfectly just change those into haste/crit/mast whichever you like the most, depending on your dps style.

However, you should know that stats are not as important as the others depending on the situation. For example, if aoe situation are very important in a fight, hit and exp value's gonna reach the sealing, so to speak. On the contrary, being on a fight where you have to dot-and-run, mastery is going to be ahead from other stats. So in the end, you have to chose whether or not you want to adapt to each different situation or to just keep the config you feel the better with.

#39 Quejinn

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 09:09 PM

I have tried to do some research on using Ferocious Bite during Berserk and I am trying to sift through everything to find the best way to maximize dps during Berserk.

Is it generally accepted as a dps loss if you Ferocious Bite during berserk unless you are close to 13 energy?

I believe it is a dpe loss to do so because the extra dmg doesn't factor in the 50% energy reduction from Berserk so you get 200% Ferocious Bite at a cost of 12.5+25=37.5 energy versus two ferocious bites at a cost of 12.5+12.5=25.

I guess what I am interested to know is whether to just spam Shred/Mangle (fight dependent) while maintaining Rip, Rake, and Savage Roar until you get your energy pool down to approx. 13 energy and then it would be ok to Ferocious Bite? Assuming that Rip/Rake/Savage Roar all have a good duration left on them, of course.

The question then is regarding 2p-T13 and the ability to refresh Rip at 60% rather than 25%. I assume that casting a Ferocious Bite to refresh Rip regardless of energy would be better dpe of course because you are in essence still casting two finishers for a maximum of 37.5 energy and only 5cp rather than having to earn 10 cp and casting rip for 30 energy and at 13 energy casting a Ferocious Bite for 13 energy for a total of 43 energy. This should translate to better dps also but instead of spamming Ferocious Bite every time you have 5cp you should really just continue to spam Shred/Mangle (fight dependent) until Rip is about to fall off and then refresh it with a Ferocious Bite, correct?

#40 ParamountDruid

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 10:12 PM

Is it generally accepted as a dps loss if you Ferocious Bite during berserk unless you are close to 13 energy?

I believe it is a dpe loss to do so because the extra dmg doesn't factor in the 50% energy reduction from Berserk so you get 200% Ferocious Bite at a cost of 12.5+25=37.5 energy versus two ferocious bites at a cost of 12.5+12.5=25.


Your comparison is flawed. Of course Ferocious Bite with high energy during Berserk will be a DPE loss over FB with low energy. The comparison should be looking at is:

37.5 energy for one FB v. 40 energy for 2 Shreds.

Should you choose to not FB at any point during Berserk you will instead be Shredding in it's place.




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