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[Feral-Cat] Cataclysm 4.3 (Dragon Soul)


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#41 Phaidon

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 10:55 AM

As I expect my raid to kill Blackhorn HC during the next ID, we will be going for Spine 10man HC soon. I might or might not have a regular raid spot for that one, but if I do, i'm likely going to be in as DPS.
The situation is as follows: mainspec ist Resto (iLvl 393), usuall offspec is Moonkin (iLvl 390), possible offspec is Feral (iLvl 390ish). 4pc T12 as Moonkin, 2pc T12/2pc T13 as Feral, the better weapon with my Moonkin (410 Dagger, but 378 offhand from FL, still using the heroic fire kitty staff from FL as Feral). If necessary I can post more detailed information on my gear.
So, here's my questions: Which spec would you use for Spine? And as I have been sat for Ultraxion for our kill because we only needed 2 Healers and most of the others DDs surpass me in gear by some 10 iLvls, which spec from your experience performs better on Ultrax? I feel the phasing in and out really hurts my DPS as Moonkin, but have not yet had the chance to try it as Feral.
Thank you in advance.

#42 ParamountDruid

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 07:39 PM

As I expect my raid to kill Blackhorn HC during the next ID, we will be going for Spine 10man HC soon. I might or might not have a regular raid spot for that one, but if I do, i'm likely going to be in as DPS.
The situation is as follows: mainspec ist Resto (iLvl 393), usuall offspec is Moonkin (iLvl 390), possible offspec is Feral (iLvl 390ish). 4pc T12 as Moonkin, 2pc T12/2pc T13 as Feral, the better weapon with my Moonkin (410 Dagger, but 378 offhand from FL, still using the heroic fire kitty staff from FL as Feral). If necessary I can post more detailed information on my gear.
So, here's my questions: Which spec would you use for Spine? And as I have been sat for Ultraxion for our kill because we only needed 2 Healers and most of the others DDs surpass me in gear by some 10 iLvls, which spec from your experience performs better on Ultrax? I feel the phasing in and out really hurts my DPS as Moonkin, but have not yet had the chance to try it as Feral.
Thank you in advance.


Re - Spine: Boomkins are garbage on H spine. You only get 20 second windows to damage the tendons and Balance burst is garbage/nonexistent.

Re - Ultraxion: As the phasing mechanic goes, both specs are affected more or less equally. Feral is hindered even further without Shred. That being said I would base my decision on what I bring to the raid in each spec. Do you have a melee heavy, caster heavy, or balance comp? Does anyone else bring 5% crit? 5% spell haste? What about the small healing aspect of LotP? Or the 8% spell damage from Earth and Moon? You've probably already figured out hich spec to play before finishing all the questions.

#43 Daylis

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 05:40 AM

On maximizing your usefulness on Spine: Feral OT is simply the best choice.

It may not mean as much now, post 20% Tendon HP nerf, but as an Amalgamation tank, you can go pure dps gemming&enchants&glyphs, having a 4t13 tank bonus for the Barrel rolls and yet retain (at least) balance damage on the tendons, because you can go kitty for 5 of them (3 of which are Berserked).
This essentially frees up another dps spot.

Ultraxion i've also gone Feral OT role on first kills, again because of the damage a dps oriented bear brings. A fulltime cat is likely slightly better than Boomkin there, especially if you need another Hour soaker. Buffs are an important aspect as well of course.

#44 kesy

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Posted 06 February 2012 - 10:35 PM

This post is about the distribution of secondary stats.

I was wondering about the fact that even though no real hit or expertise cap is really needed (according to the original poster), the usefulness of the stats rises in aoe situations because of swipe spam (as pointed out earlier in this thread). That itself hints that reaching the caps for the respective stats is efficient. To my knowledge, however, the situations where aoe is needed, the bulk of the damage is done to targets of lvl 87. Doesn't this mean, that if one wants to optimize the distribution of stats via reforging, one should concentrate on reaching lvl 87 caps instead of raidboss (lvl 88) caps?

I did some tinkering with rawr (to optimize reforging) and simcraft (to.. simulate) and it does indeed show a difference of about 100 dps towards the build with lower hit/exp rating. I get about 300 more haste with my gear when I ignore the 8%/26 limits.

The problem with this reasoning is however, that I'm not as much statistically oriented as some of the people here. My sims were made in a patchwerk sort of boss fight, which is in nature not the type of fight that the build is originally aimed for. Is there a way to actually check the usefulness of this sort of build, other than actually hard running it in actual instances? I myself have no access to heroic fights in DS.

#45 drunvalo

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:34 PM

Wanna first thank you for posting such valuable info.
I have leveled up Leatherworking. Under Legs Enchantments I get the option to enchant for 145 Stamina & 55 agility. Is this better than the Dragonscale Leg Armor Enchantment?

#46 Obblivion

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:35 PM

You must've mixed up the threads (with tanking one) or something.
It says "Legs: [Dragonscale Leg Armor]" and it hasn't been edited between your post and mine!

#47 Settingsun

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 10:48 PM

The 4T13 bonus lets Tiger's Fury activate Stampede. This pushes Glyph of Tiger's Fury above Glyph of Bloodletting unless you're an engineer with Synapse Springs or using a trinket that benefits greatly from synching up with a 30 second cooldown on Tiger's Fury. It also, of course, requires you to Ravage a Stampede activated by Feral Charge before popping Tiger's Fury, otherwise you're throwing the bonus away.

I have read elsewhere at Fluiddruid.net that it is shown as a dps increase on sims to use Glyph of Tiger's fury instead of Glyph of Bloodletting. However due to making the rotation harder due to a less time for rip that it is not worth it unless you can execute the rotation perfectly.

So should I stick with Glyph of Bloodletting or switch to Glyph of Tiger's Fury since I do have the four piece?

#48 Szynszyla

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 12:38 AM

The 4T13 bonus lets Tiger's Fury activate Stampede. This pushes Glyph of Tiger's Fury above Glyph of Bloodletting unless you're an engineer with Synapse Springs or using a trinket that benefits greatly from synching up with a 30 second cooldown on Tiger's Fury. It also, of course, requires you to Ravage a Stampede activated by Feral Charge before popping Tiger's Fury, otherwise you're throwing the bonus away.

I have read elsewhere at Fluiddruid.net that it is shown as a dps increase on sims to use Glyph of Tiger's fury instead of Glyph of Bloodletting. However due to making the rotation harder due to a less time for rip that it is not worth it unless you can execute the rotation perfectly.

So should I stick with Glyph of Bloodletting or switch to Glyph of Tiger's Fury since I do have the four piece?


It was Mew script bug with ravage having almost 100% crit chance permanently or something. Once bug was fixed, glyph of TF was dropped down below bloodletting in DPS.

#49 Leafkiller

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:43 AM

FWIW, Mew shows Bloodletting at 250dps higher than TF on my current profile (ilvl 399, mastery 1423, crit 1256, haste 1290, 5 minute Patchwerk style fight, full raid buffs and pre-potting using top of tree Mew). Nonetheless, I recommend checking your own profile in Mew, particularly if you are going high haste and low mastery (I offtank on some fights, so I went high mastery to be able to be effective in bear while not gimping cat dps).

#50 bulinutza

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 09:25 AM

I am running on a haste build (Enna @ Steamwheedle Cartel - Game Guide - World of Warcraft) and I ran some mew simulations. Indeed, as Leakfiller said, Glyph of Bloodletting is about 215 DPS above Glyph of Tiger's Fury. But another thing I discovered with the mew simulation is that Enchant Cloak - Greater Critical Strike is about 12 DPS above Enchant Cloak - Major Agility, so I was wondering why is the agility enchant still recommended as being the best? Also Rawr suggests that the Critical Strike one is better.

#51 Leafkiller

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 10:25 PM

I am running on a haste build (Enna @ Steamwheedle Cartel - Game Guide - World of Warcraft) and I ran some mew simulations. Indeed, as Leakfiller said, Glyph of Bloodletting is about 215 DPS above Glyph of Tiger's Fury. But another thing I discovered with the mew simulation is that Enchant Cloak - Greater Critical Strike is about 12 DPS above Enchant Cloak - Major Agility, so I was wondering why is the agility enchant still recommended as being the best? Also Rawr suggests that the Critical Strike one is better.


When you are talking about a number as small as 12dps, before you can determine something is better in Mew, you need to look at your settings. If you ran the default 10k iterations, then the dps error is more than 12dps.

To get a better idea of both how close these two enchants are, and if one does test out slightly ahead of the other, I just ran a test where I added 20% encounter duration randomization and bumped the number of iterations up to 30,000. This is still only testing a Pathwerk style fight though.

With the 22 agil, dps is 45718.5 +/- 11.1
With 65 crit it is: 45730.6 +/- 11.1

Bumping that up to 100,000 iterations
22 Agi: 45724.0 +/- 6.1
65 crit: 45735.6 +/- 6.1

We can safely say that 65 crit is no worse and 22 agi, and possibly as much as 20 dps higher than 22 agi for my current toon on a patchwerk fight that has a 20% encounter variance around 5 minutes.

Put another way, 65 crit and 22 agi are very close in value. If you are using the cloak for bear and cat, the agi looks a little better (basing that on a cursory glance at Tangedyn's spreadsheet) but still the values are not that far apart.

#52 silverbow25

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 08:15 PM

One thing that I really need and I really can't find here or anywhere else is just a vague relative stat weights for feral cats in T13, especially how close is mastery to agility, because I've seen one place suggesting that Agility is 5 and Mastery is 4.5 and I really have a hard time believing that mastery could be that close to being equal to agility and it really is important as it makes a huge difference which items you want to call BIS.

I've tried to do this with Mew and for some unknown reason when I click the relative stats weight page in mew it is always empty no matter what I do. I've been trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong and haven't yet. Any help would be most appreciated.

#53 ceelion22

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 04:20 AM

One thing that I really need and I really can't find here or anywhere else is just a vague relative stat weights for feral cats in T13, especially how close is mastery to agility, because I've seen one place suggesting that Agility is 5 and Mastery is 4.5 and I really have a hard time believing that mastery could be that close to being equal to agility and it really is important as it makes a huge difference which items you want to call BIS.

I've tried to do this with Mew and for some unknown reason when I click the relative stats weight page in mew it is always empty no matter what I do. I've been trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong and haven't yet. Any help would be most appreciated.


Secondary stats will never come that close to a primary stat. At best the secondary stats are worth 1/2 of what Agi is worth. As far as stat weights its pretty much;

Weapon DPS>Agi>Whatever your comfortable with. Mastery builds and Haste builds are so close that there really isn't a right or wrong way to go with them, there are some exceptions of course.

#54 sunsmoon

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 12:25 PM

One thing that I really need and I really can't find here or anywhere else is just a vague relative stat weights for feral cats in T13, especially how close is mastery to agility, because I've seen one place suggesting that Agility is 5 and Mastery is 4.5 and I really have a hard time believing that mastery could be that close to being equal to agility and it really is important as it makes a huge difference which items you want to call BIS.

I've tried to do this with Mew and for some unknown reason when I click the relative stats weight page in mew it is always empty no matter what I do. I've been trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong and haven't yet. Any help would be most appreciated.


Secondary stats are often considered to be 1/3rd of Agility. Weapon DPS is significantly above Agility. Some stats sim slightly better (haste) or slightly worse (hit/expertise), but they're all so close that the difference is only a few DPS. You'll see a much bigger change in DPS by improving your personal play.

On Mew, you need to tick the box for calculating RSV. They do not generate by default because they're so prone to abuse.

#55 aggixx

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 08:47 AM

As sunsmoon implied without explaining, Mew RSVs are practically useless for secondary stats. See this.

I would strongly recommend simply deciding whether or not you wish to hit and expertise cap, and then select either mastery or haste on your own preference.

#56 Melthu

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Posted 25 June 2012 - 01:21 PM

Bumping to keep this thread in the default 30 day filter. Note for any newcomers: The OP of this thread is still up to date for the 4.3 patch.

#57 crisiscg

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Posted 08 July 2012 - 10:40 AM

Is it still considered to be a dps increase to run out for ravage procs on fights like morchok warlord etc, outside of where you would use charge to get in range anyways i mean purely for the dps increase.

#58 ac90b671

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:57 PM

As long as you run out when you're very low on energy it's a dps increase because it's a 950% WD + 1-2 CP at the cost of a couple melee swings. If you don't need to save dash, you can pop that to run out too.

#59 ralftux

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 05:24 AM

Again a great work from Leafkiller (Feral/Guardian Ovale Script):

The Fluid Druid - View topic - Leafkiller's 5.04 Feral/Guardian Ovale Script

Thank you!

#60 Settingsun

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:21 PM

Is it worth putting up rake before Savage Roar and then refreshing it when Tiger's fury is up? Or should you shred, Savage Roar and then rake?




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