Jump to content


Photo

[Resto] 4.3 Gear Discusson (Dragon Soul)


  • Please log in to reply
70 replies to this topic

#41 Hidden

Hidden

    King Hippo

  • Members
  • 520 posts

Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:46 PM

I personally believe that when starting heroics you should bump up your mana regen and then cut back as you feel comfortable with rather than running on fumes unnecessarily. I went from 1600->2300 Spirit and took the 2 set from LFR (I still had a 378 gloves so it averaged out as an equal ilvl/stats exchange) for now.

Depending on your tactic on Zon'ozz (1 camp or 2) it can be very mana intensive in both phases which should lean you towards more regen, I noticed issues on Yor'sahj heroic but that was without the Mana Void trick so that is a pending issue. Spine/Ultraxion seemed rough enough on normal to warrant higher regen too.. but obviously how your guild plays and your style of healing will impact this issue more for you personally than anyone else can guide you.


Are you talking about 10 man or 25 man Zon'ozz here?
I'm off-spec healing in our 10m raid and also healed Zon'ozz 10HC a few days ago using a 8/2/31 mana spec with <1200 spirit, two int trinkets and 4t12. Mana is tight but I never felt I didn't have the mana to keep the raid alive in our attempts and our kill; without dying I could sustain ~29-30k HPS for the whole 6 minutes.
Thus I'm definitely keeping my low spirit setup until there's a fight where I really feel mana starved before the end of the fight.

#42 Playered

Playered

    Soda Popinski

  • Members
  • 4054 posts

Posted 12 December 2011 - 04:25 PM

Are you talking about 10 man or 25 man Zon'ozz here?
I'm off-spec healing in our 10m raid and also healed Zon'ozz 10HC a few days ago using a 8/2/31 mana spec with <1200 spirit, two int trinkets and 4t12. Mana is tight but I never felt I didn't have the mana to keep the raid alive in our attempts and our kill; without dying I could sustain ~29-30k HPS for the whole 6 minutes.
Thus I'm definitely keeping my low spirit setup until there's a fight where I really feel mana starved before the end of the fight.


25 and our tactic involved each bounce hitting the majority of the raid, rather than having half the bounces hit only one person or having the raid split in half and having people run out with the debuff.

I don't know anything


#43 pragmata

pragmata

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 12 December 2011 - 10:38 PM

So far, I absolutely have mana issues on H-Zon'ozz and H-Ultra. H-Zon'ozz is the most noticeable: even with 2 priest hymns in the raid, a mana tide, 3/3 Moonglow 2/3 Furor, 2pc T12, and Shard of Woe, I'm at 0 mana at the end of the fight. As a result, I'm giving spirit and mastery each the same value in ReforgeLite - which leads to a 50/50 balance of the two.


Are you guys 2 healing or 3 healing (if 10man) for Zon'onzz? We were 3 healing it got it down in 5min 30 mana was tight at times but definitely had more to pump out at the end. H Ultraxion is a bit of a pain in the ass waitin for the blue crystal to come out resto's dont seem to be able to pump out as much as the other classes.

#44 Bnj222

Bnj222

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:04 PM

I would say that it may be beneficial to go with a high spirit build for fights like H Zon'ozz and most of the other heroics with how much consistant damage goes out to maintain decent regen because I know that I have to use all mana cooldowns appropriately to stay afloat. Along with how much damage goes out, hands down our 4 pc is beneficial for the time slip and will not result in how as much overhealing as youre thinking. Also, Playered, our guild is doing the same thing for H Zon'ozz, it makes for quick bounces and we've also have been healing through the debuff. Our biggest problem comes from positioning in black phases for healers.

#45 Porker

Porker

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 10 posts

Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:46 PM

For those interested in , here are some logs of me using the 410 version of it.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Seems very powerful to me.

..Forgot to add that the spell is called "Nick of Time"

#46 Koril

Koril

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 18 posts

Posted 17 December 2011 - 06:00 PM

I have just noticed that the tooltip of changed, from "critical damage" to "critical effect". I'm wondering if it affects heals now... It would clearly be the best meta for us if it does: it gives intellect over the spirit of revitalising, and has negligible requirements!

Trying to test that right now...


EDIT:
Ok I've bought one, and tested that. I have first tested with nourrish then realized it was stupid since rejuv gives constant ticks. I've done that without spec, with feral gear to get some crit rating and enable the metagem bonus.

With :
- rejuv ticks for 1338
- rejuv crits for 2756 (i.e. : x2.03 multiplier)

With , to keep the exact same amount of intellect :
- rejuv ticks for 1338
- rejuv crits fo 2676 (i.e. : x2 multiplier)

Looks like it works, let's swap our gems dudes!

#47 Thedave

Thedave

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 28 posts

Posted 17 December 2011 - 08:47 PM

Are you guys 2 healing or 3 healing (if 10man) for Zon'onzz? We were 3 healing it got it down in 5min 30 mana was tight at times but definitely had more to pump out at the end. H Ultraxion is a bit of a pain in the ass waitin for the blue crystal to come out resto's dont seem to be able to pump out as much as the other classes.


We were 3-healing that one, but we had a really non-ideal comp (lots of melee), so it was a post-enrage kill. This week was really different for some reason... 27m damage taken by the raid instead of the 35m we took last week. Not really sure how to explain the difference, but mana was a LOT better this week.

I'm currently sitting at 2350 in-combat mp5 (with Shard of Woe and 3/3 Moonglow 2/3 Furor) and it seems like more than enough to make it through a DS heroic. I started the tier at 2000 in-combat mp5, and that extra 350 (along with gains in Int) has made quite a difference. I'll probably be reforging more spirit off to find a more exact sweet spot, but I'd recommend trying 2300 out when learning HMs - if you're struggling on mana.

#48 Carebare

Carebare

    ::stare::

  • Members
  • 5200 posts

Posted 18 December 2011 - 01:28 AM

I am assuming that there has been some math done on the Resto 4 piece set bonus. Can someone please post a link to it here? There are comments that it's bad, but it would be relevant to this thread to lay it out here so that it can be properly considered when making gear choices. Obviously at heroic levels there isn't much in the way of competition (there's actually nothing other than taking moonkin gear), but prior to that it adds an interesting dynamic-- particularly given the mana intensity of some of the fights and the mp5 value of 2t12. I see that TreeCalcs gives it a value of 1184.88 hps, but is that under optimal (no overheal)/routine/sub-optimal conditions (mostly overheal)? Of course it's important to remember that t13 gives 3 sockets to chest/legs and t12 gloves were rather poorly itemized.
i miss raiding with carebare :< she makes me feel like i am not the only person that hates everyone
Aldriana: I am an asshole, it just so happens that some of my colleagues are even *bigger* assholes.
[R] [85:Neux:2]: i hear if you die on Good Friday they are going to make it where you can't get rezzed until easter sunday
Khazal: Yeah, I don't know about Magic Rainbow Unicorn Land, but here in Reality, Rhyolith is the worst encounter Blizzard has ever designed.

#49 Aibe

Aibe

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 18 December 2011 - 05:44 PM

Regardless of the debate on the value of the 4pc T13 bonus (which I'm also curious to see some hard data on) I think we've concluded that any BiS list will include 2pc T13 and give us the inneravte bonus. Has anyone with the bonus got a Jaws of Defeat to pair with it? Is the Reduction from Jaws being applied before or after the inneravte bonus?

My thinking being applying a buff like Bottle of wishes on inneravte cast and using Jaws while within the 2pc Bonus window is likely to result in rather effective combination if used appropriately.

#50 Hamlet

Hamlet

    Mike Tyson

  • • Guide Author
  • 11581 posts

Posted 18 December 2011 - 11:04 PM

Most of the discussion on 4T13 was back in the other thread when it appeared on PTR. For rough math though, just assume a 10% raw buff to your Rejuv output (this is basically what TreeCalcs does).

TreeCalcs is just looking at a raw healing situation (no overheal). This can cut both ways since in reality the bonus overheals, but so does all your other healing (which is your basis for comparison). For example the 4pc ICC bonus was equal to or slightly more valuable than its TC value, since you got a smart-target instant Rejuv that on average was probably slightly less likely to overheal than your normal blanketing Rejuvs. In this case though, the healing added by the set bonus is likely to have a much lower effectiveness % than your usual healing, since it's being tacked onto a worse-than-average target--someone who just had a Rejuv on them for 12s.

Or to put it differently--which is usually going to be worse for overhealing: the first 12s of a 24s Rejuv, or the second 12s? Probably the first, which is why the contribution from 4T13 is going to be weaker than its raw value suggests.

#51 Carebare

Carebare

    ::stare::

  • Members
  • 5200 posts

Posted 19 December 2011 - 12:30 AM

It will definitely vary by fight. In some cases you can assume almost no overheal, whereas others it's likely to be mostly overheal. Certainly not our strongest bonus to date, but not severely weak. In the absence of other gear options at an ilevel of 410 it looks like I'll probably do offset of moonkin legs to make the haste break point an easy target. I think my first stab at looking at complete BIS had us at 3300+ spirit if we stuck with full 5 piece Resto, so the sacrifice of one slot makes a lot of sense. I'm not a huge fan of top level gear BiS lists simply because there is no more progress to be done for this entire expansion, so including pieces from Deathwing is kind of silly. For that reason I tend to leave a fair amount of wiggle room in terms of breakpoints because that tends to be more realistic.

chardev 9 In case anyone is interested. Chardev is a bit screwy at the moment, so I didn't finish up the gemming/enchanting.
i miss raiding with carebare :< she makes me feel like i am not the only person that hates everyone
Aldriana: I am an asshole, it just so happens that some of my colleagues are even *bigger* assholes.
[R] [85:Neux:2]: i hear if you die on Good Friday they are going to make it where you can't get rezzed until easter sunday
Khazal: Yeah, I don't know about Magic Rainbow Unicorn Land, but here in Reality, Rhyolith is the worst encounter Blizzard has ever designed.

#52 ebah

ebah

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 19 December 2011 - 08:44 AM

Are you guys 2 healing or 3 healing (if 10man) for Zon'onzz? We were 3 healing it got it down in 5min 30 mana was tight at times but definitely had more to pump out at the end. H Ultraxion is a bit of a pain in the ass waitin for the blue crystal to come out resto's dont seem to be able to pump out as much as the other classes.


My guild 3healed 10man hc zonozz, and first kill had some mana issues (had around 2200spirit that time).

HC Ultraxion i had no mana issues, also i used red crystal, and paladin started with green and switched into blue when it spawned. My (druid) 51k hps & pally had 52k.

Had some tries yesterday on gunship hc with me & pally healing (p1), had no mana issues there with 2300spirit.

#53 P_H

P_H

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 40 posts

Posted 04 January 2012 - 10:56 AM

I'm really kind of underwhelmed by the Maw of the Dragonlord mace that drops off of Madness.

After doing some quickie testing outside of Stormwind, I found out the following things:

-Cleansing Flames hits for a variable amount between ~4.5k-7k. There are outlier values, with some hitting for 2k and others for up to and a bit above 8k. It seems to hit most often for around 6-7k in a raid setting from skimming through my logs for tonight.
-It can crit. Based on my own logs, it's between 20-25% (small sample size is small).
-It has an ICD of around 15 seconds, but usually procs every 20-23 seconds.
-It does proc off of HoT ticks. It seems to proc off of direct heals and HoT ticks at the same rate. It proc'd much less often when spamming Nourish and Healing Touch (every 30-50s) than when I had only Lifebloom rolling (the aforementioned 20-23).
-It does not scale with spell power in any conceivable way. It also does not scale with Harmony (was a long shot anyway).
-It has a very underwhelming 9 yard range.
-It has a very wide area of effect. It's something like 150 degrees in front of the caster.

It will be great on Yor'sahj, Ultraxion, Spine and Madness, or any fight where the raid will be stacked up and stationary. I suppose that's half the fights, but for the rest, where there's a lot more movement and constant repositioning, it will possibly be worth it to switch to a different main hand if it's of higher ilvl. My logs seem to reflect this, but I wasn't aware of the range limit on the mace until just now and so wasn't really positioning myself to gain more benefit out of it.

It's still very much so the Trauma of t13, but it's a lot less impressive than early parses I saw seemed to make it out to be. I was especially surprised at its short range.

EDIT
Healing values are based off of the Normal Mode mace.

#54 Playered

Playered

    Soda Popinski

  • Members
  • 4054 posts

Posted 04 January 2012 - 01:51 PM

You cluster on Morchok, Warlord, Yor'sahj, Ultraxion, the hard part of Gunship, Spine and Madness. It would be easier to say that the mace is only of low value on Hagara because it only provides real benefits if you are in the middle during the frost phase which does not happen that often.

For me (in 25/heroic) it boiled down to:
Morchok 5.4%
Warlord - 5%
Yor'sahj - 6.9%
Ultraxion - 10%
Warmaster - 5.6%
Spine(H progress) - 7%~


For 10 mans it probably is slightly weaker despite the scaling of the heal depending on the amount of targets it hits but for this tier of content it is incredibly strong to the point it could be the most powerful proc of all the Deathwing weapons. The only bad thing about it is that you have to watch your positioning somewhat more thoughtfully which is something I still forgot to bother with more than I should. I honestly cannot say that even at 5% that I find the proc underwhelming for us especially when you note our struggles with raid wide AoE healing which this mace wonderfully provides for us.

I don't know anything


#55 Shelendil

Shelendil

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 105 posts

Posted 04 January 2012 - 08:22 PM

From my experience it's worst on Zon'ozz at 4.7% healing. 6% on Hagara. Invaluable on Yor'sahj with purple. Overall it's a 4.5-9.5% healing boost that has zero mana or gcd cost associated with it.

When comparing 403 Maw to 410 Vagaries, the proc from Maw needs to surpass ~1500 hps to be worth the loss of spellpower and secondary stats. It does this for me on every fight except for Zon'ozz, where we spread out for the heavy damage phase.

#56 P_H

P_H

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 40 posts

Posted 04 January 2012 - 10:19 PM

I do raid 10m, but there's a gargantuan disparity between the numbers you guys are getting and mine. I'll try to position myself more thoughtfully next week with the mace and see how it goes.

#57 Phaidon

Phaidon

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 04 January 2012 - 10:56 PM

It is certainly weaker for 10 man raids. Which does not at all make it a bad weapon, I'd just gladly switch it for a better choice on certain fights as I couldn't get more than like 2% out of it for Heroic Zon'Ozz due to our tactic. Doesn't seem to be especially useful for Heroic Hagara, either. While you have to position yourself carefully, it helps out nicely on SoD, MoD, Ultraxion (should be the same for heroic) and, at times, Morchok. I find it hard to comment on Yor'sahj, because I am yet to kill him on Heroic and didn't actually try to make the best of it on Normal so my numbers for the mace were pretty subpar. As the angle in which it hits targets in front of you is, as commented above, fairly wide, it should in theory work nicely on Yor'sahj, too.
Don't expect to go above 5-6% even on good fights though without really having an eye on your positioning all the time - which I found difficult because some heroics are rather stressful to heal through. Anyway, this will probably get better as I kill them more often.

#58 Yeni

Yeni

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 14 posts

Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:07 PM

Haven't seen it mentioned anywhere so far as it is inconsistent with usual itemisation and can be easily overlooked - while moonkin legs have better stats then resto on the first glimpse, they actually have 20 int less on every difficulty level. Combined with the fact that moonkin gloves have red socket as opposed to resto which got blue, moonkin gloves as an offpiece seem a preferable choice.

#59 aleks0410

aleks0410

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 09 February 2012 - 05:48 PM

Haven't seen it mentioned anywhere so far as it is inconsistent with usual itemisation and can be easily overlooked - while moonkin legs have better stats then resto on the first glimpse, they actually have 20 int less on every difficulty level. Combined with the fact that moonkin gloves have red socket as opposed to resto which got blue, moonkin gloves as an offpiece seem a preferable choice.


The red socket is nice, yes, but isn't the moonkin chest the better option? Or am i missing something here. By now 2005 haste should be easily obtainable and the moonking chest has mastery instead of haste.

#60 Kjeldorian

Kjeldorian

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 119 posts

Posted 09 February 2012 - 06:35 PM

Let's just go over the heroic tier comparisons, excluding the VP gear since there is no 410 equivalent.

Helm - Differences are a small margin in the secondary stat 29 haste (boomer) vs 41 spi (resto)

Shoulders - Differences are in one secondary stat, crit (boomer) vs mastery (resto)

Gloves - Assuming an epic red gem (because the socket bonus is small), the result is 10 int, 276 haste (boomer) vs 8 mastery, 268 spi (resto).

Legs - Biggest difference between tiers here, 381 haste (boomer) vs 20 int, 366 spi, 21 mastery (resto)

Chest - Secondary stat difference, 337 mastery (boomer) vs 16 spi, 325 haste (resto)

Drawn conclusion, you can safely exclude the helm and shoulders from this comparison. Since most of the 410 pieces already have mastery as a secondary stat, reforging for said stat can be excluded when comparing the legs and gloves for offpiece and becomes a question if you need haste to help reforge stats off of other pieces not evaluated to meet your haste break point. Assuming haste is not an issue due to other pieces, I would view the chest piece to be strong because of the extra mastery.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users