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Brewmaster (Tank) Basic Discussion


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#21 voltarin

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 07:14 PM

Drunken Haze does not affect other players. Source: various instance runs

#22 Tyvi

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 11:28 PM

How exactly did you test this? Did you run Brewmaster as DPS role and just applied it for the other tank and then compare the WoL miss chance to the standard 5% miss chance?

#23 huntcaudata

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 12:37 AM

I had a list of a couple of tests to run, but since I still haven't received access - if anyone is willing:

- [Answered: Yes]Stagger is a 25% proc - is this a 2-roll system like the new block
- [Answered: 3 seconds]How often does the dot from Stagger tick
- How are procs of stagger combined
- Does Guard scale with AP (some datamined versions have it as 1.9xx * AP)
- [Answered: Yes]Is the Tiger Palm buff consumed when Guard is used
- [Answered: Yes] - Does Guard absorb magic damage
- How is excess damage handled by Avert Harm - does it kill the Monk, does it absorb less damage, or is all the damage absorbed on the raid while the Monk is left at exactly 10% (during a single large AOE)
- [Answered: Yes]Does the monk still avoid attacks during Shuffle
- [Answered: Yes] - Can Fortifying Ale be clicked off / removed with /cancelaura
- [Answered: Drops Aggro]How does Dematerialize affect threat/aggro
- (not testable yet) How do the "friendly cyclone" talents affect aggro/threat
- Drunken Haze (mentioned above) - affects some bosses, not others

2 things of note:
[EDIT: Stamina increases are planned and included in Blizzard's current internal build]Monks do not appear to have any stamina or Armor increasing talents, but do have higher passive damage reduction than other tanks.
Brewmasters appear to not have any threat bonus in the current version of beta, so holding aggro is extremely difficult

#24 PowerBaton

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 07:15 AM

Can Fortifying Ale be clicked off / removed with /cancelaura


Yes, can be removed / clicked off

#25 Tecton

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 09:34 AM

I think people might be misunderstanding what you are getting at Liar (your original wording made it sound like you were asking if party members got the debuff). As far as whether or not other players get the miss benefit, that should be fairly easy to check as the mobs damage themselves whenever a miss is forced by Drunken Haze. I know I've kept Nóam's debuff rolling on several occasions as we've been levelling, but I didn't check if it was still giving the same benefit, we can check that next time we're on pretty easily (just check the combat log for any self-damage from the mobs in question). If it does, I think it's safe to assume that it will be changed, as it's too huge of a benefit that can be applied externally.

[edit] Also, regarding the Guard question, it absorbs every kind of damage. [/edit]

#26 Disargeria

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 01:44 PM

The latest change to Roll made it free, but now has 2 charges that regenerate. You get one charge back after 10 seconds and the other after another 10 seconds.

That seems a bit long, but it means tanks can finally make use of it without sacrificing large amounts of damage and or mitigation. We'll also be able to consider different T1 talents and pick up Chi Torpedo.
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#27 Disargeria

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 04:51 PM

http://i.imgur.com/swGPA.jpg

Stagger ticks every 3 seconds. It's observed to adjust to include the most recent damage and go down with time as well, like Deep Wounds.
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#28 Barirn

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 02:28 PM

Is anyone else wondering how useful Fortifying Brew is? From my perspective, it seems scary to not be able to be healed during the time it is up. Anyone else have any worries about it?

#29 Tyvi

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 02:42 PM

There has to be a drawback for something that literally doubles your health. I expect people to use it on (predictable) burst then /cancelaura it once the bonus health has been consumed.

#30 Mericet

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:33 PM

Why does there have to be a drawback for something that doubles your health? Icebound fortitude, survival instincts and guardian of ancient kings reduce damage taken by 50%, which is effectively doubling your health, and they don't have drawbacks. Those abilities last I think 12 seconds and fortifying ale does last up to 20, however. It will be interesting to see how often you can make use of those 8 extra seconds.

That is assuming when you cancel the buff your % hp remains the same, otherwise you could use and cancel it for an instant full heal, or just cancel it after your health is lower than your normal maximum which would make it more like an absorb effect that blocks healing.

The real test of whether this ability can match up to other tanks' will be how well you can coordinate the timing for healers. Using it right after healing comes in, having healers swap effectively so as not to waste time or mana trying to heal you, and getting heals right after you cancel it or it falls off will be a big deal, and it adds a serious layer of complexity that other tanks don't have to worry about.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if this ended up as a more cookie-cutter shield wall type cooldown. Maybe some kind of small flavor added in like icebound fortitude granting stun immunity.

#31 Draugdae

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:54 PM

That is assuming when you cancel the buff your % hp remains the same, otherwise you could use and cancel it for an instant full heal, or just cancel it after your health is lower than your normal maximum which would make it more like an absorb effect that blocks healing.


When I tested this on the last beta build, it kept my %health constant when I clicked off the buff. I believe it has also kept my % health constant when I apply the buff, though I have not tested that as thoroughly.

#32 Tyvi

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 05:06 PM

Why does there have to be a drawback for something that doubles your health? Icebound fortitude, survival instincts and guardian of ancient kings reduce damage taken by 50%, which is effectively doubling your health, and they don't have drawbacks. Those abilities last I think 12 seconds and fortifying ale does last up to 20, however. It will be interesting to see how often you can make use of those 8 extra seconds.


Neither of these are class abilities though. Fortifying Ale is something every Monk spec gets. Or maybe it's because Blizz doesn't want FA to combo with Avert Harm. It's probably too early to tell.

If it wasn't for the fact that Shuffle only affects melee swings, I wouldn't even be so sure if Brewmasters even needed Shield Wall ability since Shuffle + Purifying Brew looks like a really good combo and it only has a 45 sec CD.

#33 Aspir

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:57 PM

For any that are curious, here is a World of Logs parse of some time I spent on the beta in Naxx today playing my 85 Brewmaster. Warning: I am in no way claiming that I am actually playing Brewmaster properly! Just hoping this might help some at the EJ crowd figure out what we're actually supposed to do.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

Most of my time I was trying to just solo things, but later on I had a friend join me to bring some extra DPS to get through a few bosses. Solo, my best on Patchwerk was about 50% before he ended up enraging and killing me. (Premade monk ~378 ilvl).

I did find Jinyu's Cider to be much stronger as a tank, rather than Ascendence (+1 Max Chi) as Jinyu's on-demand Full Chi was great.

NOTE: I had to hack out a particular line in the log files because World of Logs (and raidlogs) were barfing on it. For reference, it's this type of line (MISFIRE):

4/1 10:49:45.184 SWING_MISSED,0xF1303E7500000E4F,"Sapphiron",0x10a48,0x0,0x0100000000000CBD,"Aspyronk",0x511,0x0,MISFIRE

--

A couple other things I wanted to mention:

- Dizzying Haze works on some mobs+bosses, but doesn't work on others. For example, Malygos was immune, but Patchwerk was affected by it.
- The Tiger Palm buff (+5% to Guard) IS consumed as soon as you do your next Guard
- You DO still avoid attacks during Shuffle. Click the spoiler for a combat log segment against Patchwerk.
Spoiler


#34 Berthold

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 08:07 AM

I have been thinking about our mastery. It has two components, it reduces the dot component of a staggered hit and it gives us an absorb shield. Let's take a look first at the staggering:
At first this sounds interesting and useful, but will we actually stack mastery for this?
If we take a look at the other tanks, we can see that they all have a chance to lessen the damage from a hit using absorbs/shield block etc. This means that a) over the long run, they will take less damage and B) flatten spiky damage.
In my opinion, B) is the more important, but our mastery doesn't help with that. As we always have a 25% chance to stagger, every fourth attack is flattened out already, leaving a dot that just drains a little bit more mana, but doesn't "surprise" the healer.
On the other hand, a warrior can increase his *chance* to block using his mastery, thereby turning full hits into lessened hits.

The second part of our mastery increases our guard shields. This could actually be useful against B). However, as we will often have a stagger dot running, the shields might be consumed just for the dot.

All in all, if B) is (again) the real problem, I could see ourselves stack dodge over mastery (given a similar long-term reduction effect for the current DR level).
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#35 krekot

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 10:02 AM

When brewmaster will use one-handed weapon we can put 2 tank enchants.

What happend with tanking enchants. They will refresh or stack?

#36 towelliee

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 06:54 PM

Don't think we were meant for 2H but I do think if we dual wield and both enchants work especially the absorb colossus one we are in for a treat and a quick hot fix.

#37 Hinalover

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:40 AM

I know this is dated, but I know GC made the comment right after Blizzcon that Blizzard is designing Windwalkers to be using fists while Brewmasters would be using stalves. However he also mentioned that they could change that.

For weapons, the two signature items are fists and staves. At the moment, we are focusing the Windwalker on fists and the Brewmaster on staves, but we might give players more flexibility than that.


Blizzard Insider #42 -- Meet the Pandaren Monk - World of Warcraft

#38 Hamsda

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:39 AM

That sounds like the most logical step, too, since staves itemized for feral druids or hunters would then probably be good for brewmasters and the fist weapons could be used by enhancement shamans and rogues. This would help blizzard reduce the amount of items which can only be used by a small percentage of all speccs.
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#39 Kirion

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 08:19 AM

That sounds like the most logical step, too, since staves itemized for feral druids or hunters would then probably be good for brewmasters and the fist weapons could be used by enhancement shamans and rogues. This would help blizzard reduce the amount of items which can only be used by a small percentage of all speccs.


Hunters will lose melee weapon slots. So we probably looking for glaives and feral druid type staves.
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#40 PowerBaton

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:08 PM

Totally offtop but probably some of you would have to try other specs, there is a bug that allow you to change spec.

1. Spec into mystery talent, in first or 2nd tier
2. Queue into dungeon or go into some phasing area
3. When you join the dungeon or your area get phased, your talents and spec gets reseted
4. Then relog and spec again into something else if you want to

Did just 3 times in a row and it works for me kinda fine. :)




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