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Mistweaver Healing Compendium


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#21 arison

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:47 AM

I've updated the OP with information from the new build. I suggest those with opinions about the spec also give their feedback in the beta class forums, too -- definitely good to get feedback in as many places as possible. Also bear in mind no numbers passes have been done and lots of tuning remains, of course.
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#22 Clárissa

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 10:05 AM

Would you do the job of transferring the thoughts of the European players then Arison? Some of us can't post there.

#23 kindath

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 08:26 PM

Given that serpent statues heal for, essentially, 100% of damage dealt, I'm wondering how viable it might be to have a mistweaver wear dps agility gear (with perhaps a spellpower staff or a spellpower mainhand + agility offhand) and simply do a dps rotation in tiger stance with serpent statues out.

Obviously it would do less damage than a windwalker due to lack of mastery and RSK, but they would be returning 100% of damage done as SMART healing.

You could also incorperate stance dancing macros to use chi wave as your main spender then switch back to tiger.

Additionally, should you need to swap to straight healing, your mana pool would be the same as a regular healer (although your heals would be less powerful). You would be at full mana, since tiger stance dps uses energy. Your spirit would be zero, but you would have plenty of tea stacks up from your DPS rotation.

Thoughts?

#24 Hidden

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 10:09 PM

Given that serpent statues heal for, essentially, 100% of damage dealt, I'm wondering how viable it might be to have a mistweaver wear dps agility gear (with perhaps a spellpower staff or a spellpower mainhand + agility offhand) and simply do a dps rotation in tiger stance with serpent statues out.

Obviously it would do less damage than a windwalker due to lack of mastery and RSK, but they would be returning 100% of damage done as SMART healing.

You could also incorperate stance dancing macros to use chi wave as your main spender then switch back to tiger.

Additionally, should you need to swap to straight healing, your mana pool would be the same as a regular healer (although your heals would be less powerful). You would be at full mana, since tiger stance dps uses energy. Your spirit would be zero, but you would have plenty of tea stacks up from your DPS rotation.

Thoughts?


While Blizzard has already stated they're planning to have damage abilities maybe scale somewhat with Int, you're ignoring quite a few things here for the current build:
Statues don't heal while you're in damage presence so you'd need to do all of that in healer presence anyway (cutting your damage by 20%).
A large part of ability damage is weapon DPS so you'd want to use a DPS weapon as well.
Expel Harm is the only direct heal that does any significant amount of healing in DPS gear since it doesn't only scale with SP like all other heals. Thus you cannot just switch to normal healing - you'd be as efficient as a Restoration Druid wearing Rogue gear and switching your weapon doesn't change a lot there.
Statues also have a 6 minutes cooldown and fairly low range so whenever the encounter calls for movement you cannot heal properly any more at all.

All in all as long as damage abilities don't scale with SP that whole "deal damage to heal" thing simply doesn't work. Compared to a Priest smiting you're too unflexible and deal too low damage right now to make use of that mechanic. The only useful ability I see right now that fits into that scheme is Spinning Crane Kick since it doesn't rely on statues and switching to a DPS weapon alone makes it heal for very significant amounts in AoE situations.

#25 kindath

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:11 PM

Haha, good points. I wasn't aware that statues wouldn't heal in tiger, and for some reason I thought that spellpower weapons had similar DPS to DPS weapons.

Well, never mind then. Not sure if serpent statues really have a point.

#26 arison

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 03:19 AM

I've not bothered updating the OP for the latest patch since mana is just clearly wrong, to the point of making dps healing completely nonviable. We probably just caught a build in transition with other changes but there really isn't much to talk about besides "yep, mana costs are too high and regen is too low." Once we get another build or more info, I'll update it as appropriate.
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#27 davek

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 01:56 PM

When it comes to melee healing, has anyone given any thought to what might be most optimal setup between Caster Staff/2h Mace VS Caster MH/Caster OH VS Caster MH/DPS OH? The main reason the last two are of interest to me is that Caster OH haven't traditionally had a damage component at all so using a DPS OH might make more sense depending on how the game is dealing with that.

#28 dracjin

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 07:14 AM

When it comes to melee healing, has anyone given any thought to what might be most optimal setup between Caster Staff/2h Mace VS Caster MH/Caster OH VS Caster MH/DPS OH? The main reason the last two are of interest to me is that Caster OH haven't traditionally had a damage component at all so using a DPS OH might make more sense depending on how the game is dealing with that.


You can't use 2h Mace (only Polearms which aren't dedicated Casterweapons).

Monk (Forums)
Monk Mistweaver Feedback
We don't want to need Agility.
We don't want that either. Mistweavers should use Intellect leather. We just have to make sure that any of their damage-dealing abilities don't make Agi attractive. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

I think they will design Way of the Monk in such way, that using Caster 2h or 1h + OH Int are nearly the same and wearing a Agi OH is no viable option.

#29 Disargeria

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:39 PM

GC commented on it today.

Since there will be situations where attacking is better (Halfus) or phases where you can't attack at all, Mistweavers will need to plan on carrying both 2h and MH/OH for maximum flexibility.
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#30 Clárissa

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:26 AM

The three changes I was most interested in: (Source: Mists of Pandaria - Build 15640 - New Items, Abilities, and More - Wowhead News)

- Crackling Jade Lightning: Channels Jade lightning at the target, causing 1674 Nature damage over 6 sec. When dealing damage, you have a 15% chance to generate 1 Chi. If the enemy attacks you within melee range while victim to Crackling Jade Lightning, they are knocked back a short distance. This effect has an 8 sec cooldown.

- Stance of the Wise Serpent: Increases healing done by 20%, and replaces your Energy resource with Mana. Also grants hit rating equal to any Spirit gained from items or effects. Any ability which costs Energy will now cost Mana instead. In addition, you also gain Eminence causing you to heal the lowest health nearby target within 20 yards equal to 50% of the damage you deal.

- Summon Jade Serpent Statue: Summons a Jade Serpent Statue at the target location. Lasts for 15 min. Only one statue can be active at a time. Eminence (Passive) When the Monk deals damage, the summoned Jade Serpent Statues will heal the lowest health nearby target within 20 yards equal to 50% of the damage done. Serpent's Salve (On - Click Effect) Allies can right-click the statue to instantly be healed for 9722 to 11297. 10 Charges.

Does this mean we would convert 100% of our damage into healing? If so, Crackling Jade Lightning looks very favourable, doesn't require melee, and if Blizzard's words are anything to go on they want us to use intellect gear over agility gear for healing. The Chi generation has an 8 second CD which is also something to consider.

#31 arison

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:30 AM

This build has a ton of changes. I'll get the OP updated today. In all previous builds, CJL didn't heal, but if it does, that's a very nice improvement.

The build also appears to have massive changes to our Chi generation. At first glance they look good and significantly will change how Mistweavers use Chi.
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#32 Clárissa

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 12:46 AM

Also Arison, these our the tier 14 set bonuses: date:2012-04-25 t14 - Wowhead Search

Item - Monk T14 Mistweaver 2P Bonus - Spell - World of Warcraft
Item - Monk T14 Mistweaver 4P Bonus - Spell - World of Warcraft

If these stay the same I would consider purely using Surging Mists, Renewing Mists, Uplift and Chi Wave for healing. Cherry Mana Tea should cover it. Also Brew: Mana Tea, Monk: For each 4 Chi you consume through use of spells and abilities, you gain a charge of Mana Tea. Use Mana Tea to consume the charges. Mana Tea can stack up to 50 times. This would mean for each 1 Chi we will gain 1% of our total mana.

#33 dracjin

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 09:36 AM

The three changes I was most interested in: (Source: Mists of Pandaria - Build 15640 - New Items, Abilities, and More - Wowhead News)

- Crackling Jade Lightning: Channels Jade lightning at the target, causing 1674 Nature damage over 6 sec. When dealing damage, you have a 15% chance to generate 1 Chi. If the enemy attacks you within melee range while victim to Crackling Jade Lightning, they are knocked back a short distance. This effect has an 8 sec cooldown.

... If so, Crackling Jade Lightning looks very favourable, doesn't require melee, and if Blizzard's words are anything to go on they want us to use intellect gear over agility gear for healing. The Chi generation has an 8 second CD which is also something to consider.


The 8 second CD is refering to the Knockback Effect.


Very interesting are the new, healing related Glyphs:

Glyph of Mana Tea: Your Mana Tea is instant instead of channeled and consumes two stacks when used, but causes a 10 sec cooldown.

Glyph of Renewing Mists: Your Renewing Mists travels to the furthest injured target within 40 yards rather than the closest injured target within 8 yards.

Due to the changing of Blackout Kick (2 Chi) there is no scenario of using it over Tiger Palm (if they heal via Eminence)

Although the new talents seem to be too strong in their current form (especially Karma):
Tigereye Brew now costs 3 Chi, up from 1 Chi. Now has a 60 sec cooldown, down from 90 sec. Now Increases your damage and healing done by 15%.

Karma *New* - Reduces all spell damage taken by 90% and clears all magical effects on you, reversing them back to their original caster if within 40 yards. Lasts for 6 sec. 1 Chi. Instant. 1.5 min cooldown

#34 dracjin

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 08:19 AM

I have tested the new beta built yesterday, and it's pretty fun.

For clarification:

Eminence now works properly. ALL damage done is converted to heal ( auto attacks, all chi based attacks, chi wave damage, expel harm damage, Crackling Jade Lightning, Spining Crane Kick heals for 150% (200% with Statue))

Chi Generation is much more enjoyable now:

Expel Harm - 2,5% Base Mana, cheapest way to get 1 Chi
Jab - Manacost reduced to 3% Base Mana
Renewing although grants 1 Chi (if casted, not via Uplift; nyi in tooltip)
Crackling Jade Lightning - 15% per Damage Tick
Surging - 5,5 % Base Mana, most expensive way to generate 1 Chi
Soothing - 20% per not overhealed tick

A lot of other changes which make our life easier:

Healing Sphere, you can cast them instant with a 0.5 CD now, they will have their uses now.
Life Cocoon - very strong cd now, Soothing healing is although doubled
Fortifying - now works proper (great!)
Uplift - now resets Renewing Mist to the correct duration
Renewing Mist - now trackable via Blizzard UI (infight)
Jade Serpent Statue - on click heals are strong now
Transcendence - 45 sec CD
Transcendence: transfer - 25 sec CD, 0,5% Base Mana (with glyph you are able to travel 50 yards)

Talents:

Tigereye Brew - 15 sec + 15% heal/damage, 3 Chi
Karma - very strong now, cant believe that it will go live in that way

Mana Consumption:
I think the current mana balance is ok. you are able to burn down mana quick via Surging.

#35 Hildegard

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 11:17 AM

I noticed that when switching from Tiger to Serpent Stance one Chi is lost, the effect seems to have a cooldown. The reason why I am still experimenting with the Tiger Stance is that all useable spells cost energy, which may come to effect when mana gets really tight during progression, right now I barely ever go below 90% during 5men boss fights with Premade gear.

The question is, if the Chi loss is intended in order to discourage the stance dance. But if so, why is the Spear Hand Strike only useable in Tiger Stance?

Edit: Forget about stance dancing for anything. Skills cost mana and energy and therefore this idea for mana management is not viable.
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#36 kindath

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 04:48 PM

Soothing mists DOES have a chance to generate chi even on full overheal ticks, for what it's worth.

Oddly enough, healing sphere is probably one of our strongest heals at the moment. It only costs 2% of base mana, heals for 20k at 85 (compare to 11k soothing mists ticks and 37k surging mists) and has a spammable 0.5s GCD that doesn't activate the GCD on any other abilities. You can aim it on top of a target and it'll heal them instantly. On top of that, if there's more than one target stacked up, it'll heal both of them for the same amount. I've tried casting it directly in between two targets ~5 yards apart and it's healed both of them instantly.

Granted, it doesn't generate chi, but I'd expect a couple changes to that before it goes live.

#37 Clárissa

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Posted 26 April 2012 - 09:26 PM

The multiple healing effect of Healing Sphere is a bug that's not supposed to happen. However yes, the Sphere's are much better. I'm still concerned about the Mastery though, I don't think it's competent enough (with regards to real terms healing) compared to the other healing masteries.

Hildegard, what rotation of spells are you using in the 5 mans? I'm very curious.

#38 Hildegard

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 07:18 AM

If damage is moderate I use CJL and CW. If the tank takes damage I use SooM on him and anyone taking spikes. Instead of using SuM, I usually "burst heal" with CW. During boss fights I add the Jade Serpent Statue and occasionally RM on movement fights, like phase 2 of the first boss in the temple. This is mainly based on the fact that the dungeons are undertuned, especially the Brewery. I found CJL, even without the statue to provide decent group healing. If I get unlucky on Chi procs I sometimes throw in SuM and EH. I noticed after healing three dungeons that I forgot about Revival and Healing Sphere and never used them.
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#39 dracjin

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 09:11 AM

CJL Mana Costs are buggy or the tootip is wrong. Tooltip says 1,5% Base Mana + 1,5% Base Mana each second.

It only costs 1,5% regardless how long the channel takes.

Soothing (same mechanism) works as intended.

If CJL Mana Cost would function like intended, it will burn your mana a lot more.

At the moment you regenerating more mana during the channel than you spent.

#40 bluebadger

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 03:04 AM

I constantly run out of mana when doing 5-mans on my 85-premade. I have terrible connection problems, so leveling hasn't worked out very well. He's in 100% standard, premade gear.

Primarily I've been using Soothing Mists as my go-to heal on anyone that needs topping off, with a Surging Mist thrown in for heavy healing, primarily on tanks. I also try to keep the HoT up on 2-3 people and use Uplift to burn off my Chi to keep it up. Chi Wave is generally used on cooldown.

I'm typically NOT doing very much DPSing, so that might be a factor? I guess DPSing would result in overall getting and using more Chi, which would give me bigger stacks of Mana Tea. I've noticed it stacks slower in the latest patch than in the previous. The new icon (leaf) is a bit confusing, since the old buff icon matched the actual spell icon, but meh.


I haven't been able to stay on long enough to check since last patch, but is Cracking Jade Lightning now a healing spell as well as a DPS spell? Or are we using it to DPS and healing via Statue/Eminence? The way people have been discussing it has me lost a bit.


Overall, gotta say that Mistweaver Healing is amazingly fun and unique. The mana management is the biggest issue I'm seeing at the moment. Keeping chi flowing is no problem, but keeping mana levels up is driving me nuts.




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