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Mistweaver Healing Compendium


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#441 Spleener

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:32 AM

A couple of notes on RJW-

-The cooldown scales with haste, which is to say that its cooldown is always equal to the duration.
-The per-tick reduction on healing is still 40%, but it's also still that for the damage despite the tooltip change last build. I'm going to assume that it's going to be a 20% reduction in healing and damage once that's corrected- I'm pretty sure a blue confirmed that somewhere, but I can't find a link.
-It ticks 9 times, as opposed to SCK's 4. That actually means the difference in healing is a little less than it would appear, since 6/2.25 * .8 = 2.133333 while 9/4 * .8 = 1.8. This is because both spells get a 'bonus' instant tick on top of their periodic hits, which bumps up the shorter spell more than the longer one.

So it's basically 1.8 SCKs for the mana cost of one, and only one GCD.
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#442 Spleener

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 11:39 AM

Updated the calc for 5.4: MoP Mistweaver Calculations
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#443 Spleener

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 12:54 PM

First observation from looking at the numbers on the update:

At constant stats, 2T15+2T16 is a ~2% increase in ReM healing over 4T16. Which means that in practice there is no increase since you're gimping your ilvl by keeping 2T15, and on top of that 4T16's bonus is superior in practice because it's smart and thus will overheal less.

So no, you should not be holding on to 2T15 for this tier. Drop it for 4T16 at the first opportunity.
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#444 lairpie

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Posted 04 September 2013 - 10:14 PM

First observation from looking at the numbers on the update:

At constant stats, 2T15+2T16 is a ~2% increase in ReM healing over 4T16. Which means that in practice there is no increase since you're gimping your ilvl by keeping 2T15, and on top of that 4T16's bonus is superior in practice because it's smart and thus will overheal less.

So no, you should not be holding on to 2T15 for this tier. Drop it for 4T16 at the first opportunity.


That's making the big assumption that others in your raid group, whose gear should be just as valuable to you as your own (often more valuable as a healer), don't gain more than the raw stat upgrades from the items. If getting T16 is barely a benefit for MW monks other than the raw stat upgrades, and many other specs get amazing set bonuses in addition to the stat upgrades, you're hurting your raid by taking t16 over them. Someone with a good 2t15 bonus such as both BrM(even post nerf of 2t15 it is good) and MW monks should certainly be keeping it until everyone with awesome 4t16 bonuses has them, then likely jumping to heroic tier once it's just a stat upgrade for them vs a stat upgrade and a bonus sidegrade for you.
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#445 Spleener

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 03:50 AM

I wasn't saying anything about its priority against other protector set bonuses- I agree, it's probably less of a boost than many other 4-piece bonuses- I was more refuting the idea that's been floating around here a lot that 2t15+2t16 was going to result in more healing done than 4t16.
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#446 Mórgoth

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:29 AM

Oh my god, please, support your statements with math before you write anything! You compared 7 RMs to uplift healing one target. Do you assume that I use uplift once during 14 seconds? You know, I raid heroic, not LFR. And I wasn't asking which heals for more, I have logs for that.

Besides, you didn't answer my question anyway. Crit buffs both, so why not crit?


except that crit buffs both, you forgot to say that buffs the chance of getting more mana tea stacks after spending 4 chi :)

#447 Lansook

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:27 PM

I recently did some testing to see what triggers Eminence heals, and what does not. In summary, not much does. Specifically, only the following abilities do: Jab, Tiger Palm, Blackout Kick, Crackling Jade Lightning, and Xuen. When Serpent's Zeal is up, auto-attack and Tiger Strikes do.

None of the second-tier talents cause Eminence healing (although each has their own healing component). Spinning Crane Kick (or Rushing Jade Wind, when talented) does not, nor does Chi Torpedo (again, both have a built in healing component). Swift Reflexes does not, even under Serpent's Zeal. The dps legendary meta gem and dps legendary cloak procs do not. Stormlash does not. Various encounter specific damages do not, as far as I could tell (using logs from a recent ToT run).

Eminence itself is a bit interesting, as the healing from the associated damage can appear almost instantly to over two seconds later. The interaction with Serpent's Zeal has odd edge effects, where you sometimes get healing from attacks made before the buff is up, and sometimes don't get healing from attacks made while the buff was up after it drops. This could just be the difference between the server and clients perception of events (as I'm basing it off of my combat logs), or it could have something to do with how damage is stored up and then doled out as healing (although that, too, might just be a client/server viewpoint distinction).

#448 Spleener

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:40 PM

Since mid-late beta the rule has been that attacks that do both damage and healing don't eminence. Gear procs also generally don't cause eminence, but I've been told that the legendary DPS meta is an exception.
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#449 PArky

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 02:59 PM

Since mid-late beta the rule has been that attacks that do both damage and healing don't eminence. Gear procs also generally don't cause eminence, but I've been told that the legendary DPS meta is an exception.


Nope

#450 Mórgoth

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 10:40 PM

First observation from looking at the numbers on the update:

At constant stats, 2T15+2T16 is a ~2% increase in ReM healing over 4T16. Which means that in practice there is no increase since you're gimping your ilvl by keeping 2T15, and on top of that 4T16's bonus is superior in practice because it's smart and thus will overheal less.

So no, you should not be holding on to 2T15 for this tier. Drop it for 4T16 at the first opportunity.


What about, drop 4/5 t15 for 2/5 t16 and 2/5 t15 until you get 4/5 t16 ??

One more question. Do we still want to use the glyph of mana tea stacks or it's better to drop for expel harm for example? any ideas please?

#451 Antoine

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 03:24 PM

What about, drop 4/5 t15 for 2/5 t16 and 2/5 t15 until you get 4/5 t16 ??

One more question. Do we still want to use the glyph of mana tea stacks or it's better to drop for expel harm for example? any ideas please?


2+2 is almost certainly better than 4/5 t15.

As for glyphs, I'm currently using Renewing Mists, Surging Mists, and Spinning Crane Kick. Mana Tea glyph no longer increases your mana back per global, and I've not yet run into a fight where I can't fit in an evocate. Glyphless drinking is also much better for if you have alternating phases of heavy damage and low damage - you can focus on throughput when necessary and then quickly get mana back when you get a chance to relax.

#452 Spleener

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 07:28 PM

Yeah, double 2pc is absolutely better than 4T15, unless you're in a situation where that 5s on TFT is particularly useful.
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#453 Lansook

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 07:10 PM

I've noticed that on my Malkorok fights that I am never targeted by Seismic Slam, despite being at range. Other healers are, the ranged dps is, the tanks and melee dps are not. Is this consistent with other mistweavers' experiences? Do we effectively count as a melee role for the targeting of this kind of attack?

That said, I'm consistently targeted for Nazgrim's Heroic Shockwave whenever I'm not in melee range of him (but he may just go for the closest person who's far enough away that the tank won't get caught in the blast, rather than specifically targeting ranged roles, and I'm generally one roll from melee range).

#454 Nevernite

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 09:25 PM

Albeit it was only one time I was assigned to heal in the Jin'rokh encounter in ToT I did not even once get targeted by Focused Lightning. (I was fistweaving at the time)
My thought there was also either MW counts as melee or it was simply luck.

edit: wording oO

#455 Spleener

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 03:27 AM

Mistweavers are considered to be melee specs for purposes of mechanics that exclusively target ranged specs. It's been that way since beta.

Some "ranged-only" mechanics pick their targets based on spec, so Mistweavers will never get targeted regardless of position, while others pick targets based on range, so Mistweavers will get targeted if they're standing at range but not if they're in melee.
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#456 Hamlet

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Posted 04 October 2013 - 06:26 PM

Jumping in with a bit of a twitter conversation about Amp (but then we got sidetracked about haste).

First of all, I realized I may have been missing a mechanics point. When you recast Soothing mid-channel, does it reset your tick timer? Reglitch on twitter said not (he showed me an example implying that works like Mind Flay--starts a new channel without interrupting the ticking). Somehow I'd thought that because of the instant tick at the start of Soothing, it also reset your tick time. If I was wrong, then haste is a little better than I'd thought (possibly not a huge differece though). If I was wrong, I'll have to update my post ( Healing Theory, Part 5: Haste | It's Dangerous to Go Alone ), but my main point today that Amp is good actually gets stronger if haste is better.

Amp: I'm just working heuristically--it gives more effective stats than its ilvl would suggest. If your class has secondary stats that are atrociously bad, that could hurt the value, but even then not by much. Since you don't like mastery, you have very little of it, and a tiny portion of Amp's value is "wasted" on mastery. So the main point is, I know of no reason Amp is worse than expected for MW. Crit's strong for you and you have a lot of it. Spirit and haste are mediocre, but don't have to debate it here, you only have them to the extent you want them. If you want a certain HBP, Amp lets you turn haste into crit through reforging etc.

Basically I don't want to get down into the weeds since it's a very simple trinket. It's all just stats. Suzu (picked arbitrarily for being the post right above mine) has around 35000 secondary stats. 553 Amp would be worth at least ~2450 to him, and in reality closer to 3000 due to the fact that it improves crit from sources other than rating. That compares very favorably to the standard 1959 stats a trinket would have at this ilvl. This isn't conclusive as all the other trinkets have some upsides as well, but the initial question was why Amp is likely to be a very strong trinket (in the context of whether double Amp is a relevant consideration).




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