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[Ret 5.0 Pre-MoP] - Panda-ring to all players


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#1 Exemplar

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 06:27 PM

Retribution MoP Beta - Panda-ring to all players

This thread is intended to accurately record statistics important to Ret gameplay in MoP. The OP will try to stay up to date as changes occur on Beta.

=MoP/5.0 Changes=
  • Expertise cap appears to be decreased. Exp cap also appears to remove all parry. Note that you may still be Blocked from the front.
  • Prime Glyphs are removed.
  • T13 2-piece changed to +15% damage to CS.

=Talents=
Tier 1

All movement affecting.
  • Speed of Light - +70% move for 8 sec (45 sec CD)
  • Long Arm of the Law - +45% move for 3 sec after a Judge hits
  • Pursuit of Justice - +15% move at all times, plus an additional 5% for each current HP, up to maximum of 3 (15% flat + 15% at 3-5 HP = 30% total bonus).

PoJ likely is the generic winner (other talents may have situational superiority). At most times you are holding 2 HP in reserve and pooling up to 5, dropping to 0 only irregularly on a few Inq refreshes. This should mean between 30-40% movement speed at all times, leaning possibly towards the 40% end of the spectrum.

Tier 2

PvP or Trash CC
  • Fist of Justice - 6 sec stun, 20 yd range, 30 sec CD (replaces HoJ)
  • Repentance - incapacitate enemy for 1 min. 15 sec CD. 1.5 second cast (reduced by haste).
  • Burden of Guilt - Judgment slows target by 50% for 12 sec

Tier 3

Healing or damage mitigation.
  • Selfless Healer - Judgment hits reduce FoL cast time and mana cost by 35%, increases effectiveness only if used on others by 35%. Stacks three times (instant cast, double effect). Stack lasts 15 seconds or when used.
  • Eternal Flame - Consumes up to 3 Holy Power to place a protective Holy flame on a friendly target, which heals them for (4,260 + 37.7% of SP) and an additional (391 + 4.5% of SP) every 3 sec for 30 sec. Healing increased per charge Holy Power. Replaces Word of Glory.
  • Sacred Shield - No Mana Cost. Produces shield that increases FoL healing by 30% and absorbs 30 (+ 117% SP) damage per 6 seconds. Can be cast on others. Only 1 active at a time.

Selfless Healer may have solo utility (for instant cast) or situational boss utility. EF (loss of HP) most likely produces a loss in DPS and therefore would be undesirable during the typical boss fight (healing/survivability may be worth it on a gimmick fight). SS no longer requires mana. At 30k AP we'll have 15k SP. This means 21k shields every 6 seconds as long as we have the GCD to keep it running.

Tier 4

Vague Hand or PvP utility.
  • Hand of Purity - Reduce target's harmful periodic (DoTs) damage taken by 70% for 6 sec. 1 min CD
  • Unbreakable Spirit - When DivShield, DivProt, or LoH are on CD, spending HP reduces CD by 1% per HP spent. Max 50% reduction.
  • Clemency - Hand of Freedom, Hand of Protection, Hand of Sacrifice and Hand of Salvation can be used twice each before incurring their cooldowns.

Lackluster tier, providing possible marginal PvP utility.

Tier 5

DPS increasers.
  • Holy Avenger - all HP generating abilities deal 30% extra damage/healing, and generate 3 HP for 18 seconds. 2 min CD.
  • Sanctified Wrath - Avenging Wrath lasts 50% longer (30 sec). During AW HoW CD reduced by 50% (3 sec).
  • Divine Purpose - Abilities that cost HP have a chance to proc DivPurp effect. DivPurp effect causes your next HP ability to consume no HP and cast as if 3 were used. Finisher used at 3 HP has 25% chance to proc, fewer HP reduce this chance - precise values not presently known.

All good DPS increases. Final damage values required before comparative DPS can be provided.

HA being a Zealotry redux will be even larger burst damage than in the past. It's extremely likely that for the entire duration you can rotate between an HP generator and TV, meaning a full half your GCD will be TV.

Tier 6

New DPS ability.
  • Holy Prism - De/buff target. Costs 5.4% Base Mana. Enemy takes 14523 to 17750 (+ 142.8% SP) Holy damage and radiates 9794 to 11969 (+ 96.2% SP) healing to 5 nearby allies. Ally is healed for 14523 to 17750 (+ 142.8% SP) and radiates 9794 to 11969 (+ 96.2% of SP) damage to 5 nearby enemies. 20 sec CD.
  • Light's Hammer - 10 yard AOE. 3268 to 3993 (+ 32.1% SP) Holy damage to enemies and healing to allies every 2 sec for 15 sec. 1 min CD
  • Execution Sentence - Enemies take damage per sec for 10 sec, then burst damage. Allies are healed every sec for 10 sec, then burst healing. 1 min CD. Total Damage: 12989 base + 593.6% SP

Will need finalized numbers to determine utility. Preliminary guess is Execution Sentence will rule for single-boss fight, while Holy Prism or Light's Hammer may be superior on some add fights (depending on quantity, placement, and duration/health of adds).
 1[/hr]

=Glyphs=
Major

  • Glyph of the Ascetic Crusader - Your Word of Glory can now also be used on enemy targets, causing Holy damage approximately equal to the amount it would have healed. Does not work with Eternal Flame.
  • Glyph of Avenging Wrath - heals 1% of max health every 2 sec for 20 sec.
  • Glyph of Divine Storm - heals caster for 6% max health (scales with +heal).
  • Glyph of Double Jeopardy - Judging increases damage of next Judgment by 20%, but only if 2nd Judge used on different target.
  • Glyph of Immediate Truth - increases instant damage of SoT by 30%, but reduces Censure by 50%
  • Glyph of Inquisition - reduces bonus by 10% (bonus becomes 20%), but increases duration by 100%
  • Glyph of Mass Exorcism - makes Exo melee-range-only, but causes damage to all targets within X yds of primary target.
  • Glyph of Templar's verdict - take 10% less damage for 6 sec after using Templar's Verdict.
Entirely possible some of these are not Majors and/or not directed towards Ret use.

Minor

Will not be covered as the present intent is to make Minor Glyphs cosmetic or similar non-play-impacting changes. Example: changing Judgment graphic from a Hammer to an Axe.
 1[/hr]

=Rotation=
Single Target

Inq > 5HP TV > HoW > Exo > CS > Judge > 3-4HP TV (> SS)

Add Sacred Shield at the bottom if desired. Should only be used if it won't delay some other cast.

Multiple Target

Inq > 5HP DS > HoW > Exo > HotR > Judge > 3-4HP DS

Even nerfed, DS is quite strong (no Armour Mitigation). You can swap from TV to DS with as little as 2 targets.

HotR pulls ahead of CS at 4 targets.

SoR limps far behind Censure and requires 8 targets to pull ahead.

Above values based on roughly BiS DS gear. You may wish to check tools for your specific gear.

 1[/hr]

=Stats=
Rating Conversion for Level 90
[table="head"]Stat|Rating for 1%|Value compared to Str
Str|n/a|1
Crit|600|??
Expertise|340|??
Haste|425|??
Hit|340|??
Mastery|285|??

Ratings as of 7/11/12. Have changed before, could change again.

At L85 relative values:
Str > Haste > Mastery > Crit

 1[/hr]

=Set Bonuses=
T14

2 Piece Bonus - Increases the damage done by your Templar's Verdict ability by 15%.
4 Piece Bonus - Reduces the cooldown of your Avenging Wrath ability by 85 sec.

 1[/hr]

=Gemming and Enchanting=
Gemming

Will depend on stat weights. Will be dealt with closer to release when we reach least chance for further changes. Red would be expected to be +Str (Bold) gems. Socketing for bonuses will depend on weights and type/value of bonus.

Secondary stats provide 50% extra stat on gem (example: Str of 120, Crit of 180).
Secondary stats provide 100% extra stat on gem (example: Str of 120, Crit of 240).

Preliminary comparisons are that Str remains more than 50% better than Secondary Stats, which would continue to incline towards straight Bold gemming which now means hybrid gemming for bonus may always be worthwhile. Exact weights and Socket bonus values would need to be determined to gauge desirability of hybrid (Str/Crit, Str/Haste, Str/Mastery, Str/Hit, Str/Expertise) gems.

Meta-Gems

Reverberating Primal Diamond presently lists as providing +216 Strength and 3% Increased Critical Effect.

Enchants

All secondary stats listed are ratings.

[TABLE="head"]Slot|Enchant
Head|No longer applicable. Head Glyphs are being removed from the game.
Cloak|Superior Critical Strike (180 Crit), Accuracy (180 Hit)
Shoulder|Greater Tiger Fang Inscription (200 Str, 100 Crit) or Inscription only Secret Tiger Claw Inscription (520 Str, 100 Crit)
Chest|Glorious Stats (80 Primary Stats)
Bracers|Exceptional Strength (170 Str), Fur Lining - Strength (Rank 3) for LW (500 Str)
Gloves|Superior Strength (170 Str) probably wins over Superior Mastery (170 Mastery), Greater Haste (170 Haste), or Superior Expertise (170 Expertise)
Belt|Living Steel Buckle (1 gem slot)
Legs|Angerhide Leg Armor (285 Str 165 Crit)
Feet|Pandaren's Step (move speed, 140 Mastery), Greater Precision (175 Hit), or Greater Haste (175 Haste)
Weapon|Windsong (Crit/Haste/Mastery by 1500 for 12 sec - currently all 3 at once!), Dancing Steel (Str by 1650 for 12 sec), Elemental Force (3000 damage proc)

Note that the Inscription shoulder enchant is a bonus 320 Str. Bold Rubies are 160 Str, so 2 Blacksmith slots balance out. Bold Serpent's Eye are 320 (limit 2), so also balance out. However, Leatherworking provides 330 bonus, so gets an edge of 10 extra Str.

Engineering grants 1,920 Str for 10 sec every 60 (average 320 Str). This encourages linking with CDs (AW, Execution Sentence, etc), so you'd get a bit more mileage than the flat buffs.

Feet should want Precision or Haste - PoJ 15% base is faster than the move-speed enchant.

Weapon should be Dancing Steel, but at least currently Windsong will simultaneously proc all 3 (Crit, Haste, and Mastery) and with an effective 100% uptime. 4500 stats should outweigh 1650 Str, as it's unlikely Str is more than 2.72 times as powerful as secondary stats. The comparison is worse if Dancing Steel has lower up-time than Windsong. If/when Windsong only procs one (likely the highest you currently have) then it should settle below Dancing Steel.

Flask

Flask of Winter's Bite - 1000 Str. No-brainer.
 1[/hr]

=Mechanics=
  • Spells do not have partial resists. [Confirmed - no partial or full resists]
  • Glancing blows (only on mobs 3+ levels higher than you, such as Skull bosses) happen 24% of the time on auto-attacks. A glancing blow deals 75% damage and cannot crit.
  • Boss level mobs have melee crit suppression of 4.8% and spell crit suppression of ~2.1%. This means you will crit less frequently than the % displayed on your character screen.
  • Autoattack Crit Cap is 73% (100% - 24% glancing - 3% suppression). Crit above this level would not generate more crits.
  • Ability Crit Cap is either 97% (100% - 3% suppression) or possibly 100% (103% - 3% suppression). Either is beyond possibility for Ret Paladin gear.
Above are presently assumed to continue with current design. They could be inaccurate.

  • Hit Rating to Percent conversion reduced from 120.11 to 102.45.
  • Expertise changed from points to a Rating conversion which matches Hit (102.45 per %).
  • You need 7.5% Hit (769 Hit rating) to be melee capped. 768 rating provides an 0.37% chance to miss while producing equal overall DPS. Autoattack, Crusader Strike, Judgment, Templar's Verdict, and Hammer of Wrath all use the melee hit cap.
  • You need 7.5% Expertise (769 Expertise rating) to be dodge capped! Spell attacks cannot be dodged. Dwarves will need 666 Expertise Rating with maces, and Humans would need 666 Expertise Rating with swords or maces. 768 rating provides an 0.37% chance to be dodged while producing equal overall DPS. 665 does not share the same benefit, the loss is greater than the gain.
  • You need 15% Spellhit to be spell capped. Both Hit and Expertise contribute to Spellhit, therefore at 7.5% Hit + 7.5% Expertise you would be at 15% Spellhit and cap. The only ability that is affected by this is Exorcism. As of 7/11 reported as still not functioning properly, or possibly Human/Dwarf racials are not properly contributing.
  • Autoattacks, Crusader Strike, Judgment, and Templar's Verdict are all considered melee attacks, using Melee Hit and Crit %. They are susceptible to parry and dodge.
  • Hammer of Wrath is ranged Holy damage and can be dodged, but not parried. It is susceptible to Hit and Expertise.
  • Exorcism is a spell attack, using the Spell Hit and Crit %. It cannot be dodged, parried, or blocked.
  • All damaging attacks do 200% damage when they Crit (previously default was 150% for spells), before Metagem modifier. Only change to Ret paladins from this is Exorcism.

Ret Specific
  • Art of War not normalized. Faster weaponspeed = more autoattacks. More autoattacks * 20% = more AoW.
  • Gain SP equal to 50% of AP. Cannot gain SP from other sources (Int, enchants, etc).
  • Mastery damage bonus is applied to: Crusader Strike, Templar's Verdict, Hammer of the Righteous, Divine Storm, and Hammer of Wrath.
  • Sword of Light is a Ret specific bonus of 10% damage to 2H melee weapons, also grants 6% of your maximum mana every 2 sec, and increases the healing done by Word of Glory and Flash of Light by 30%.
  • Inquisition behaves like a DoT for the purposes of clipping the last tick. Any refresh within the last 3 seconds is no-clip (the remainder gets added to the duration of the new cast). Example: Use 3 HP to refresh Inq with 2.5 seconds remaining and the new Inq is 32.5 seconds long.

 1[/hr]


Attacks: Base damage and Coefficients at L90

Autoattack
((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage
Generates Holy Power? No
Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? N/A.

Crusader Strike
((((AP/14) * 3.3 ) + Weapon damage) * 125%) + 791
Generates Holy Power? Yes. Generate on Miss? No.
Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? Yes.
(Flat Bonus damage increases by level - L90 value not presently known).

Hammer of the Righteous
((((AP/14) * Weaponspeed ) + Weapon damage) * 20%)
Generates Holy Power? Yes. Generate on Miss? No.
Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? Yes.

AOE damage calculated as: 1050 + (23.4% AP). Number reverse engineered from various levels of AP.35% Weapon damage as Holy. As of last edit unsure if any AP scaling.

If the single-target portion hits, the AOE portion automatically hits all targets in range. Each target takes the full AOE damage, the AOE value is not split between targets like Holy Wrath in Cataclysm. Thus more targets means more total damage done.

Templar's Verdict
((((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 275%) + 1,727
Generates Holy Power? No.
Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? No.
(Flat Bonus damage increases by level - L90 value not presently known).

Divine Storm
(((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 101.25%
Generates Holy Power? No.
Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? No.

Seal of Righteousness
((((AP/14) * 3.3 ) + Weapon damage) * 6%)
Generates Holy Power? No.
Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? N/A.

Cannot miss. Hits all targets in range.

Seal of Justice
((((AP/14) * 3.3 ) + Weapon damage) * 16%)
Base Weapon Damage * 16%
Generates Holy Power? No.
Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? N/A.

Presently not scaling with AP at all.

Seal of Truth
((((AP/14) * Weaponspeed ) + Weapon damage) * 12%)
Generates Holy Power? No.
Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? N/A.

Cannot miss (hits if the attack generating it hits).

Censure: 107 + (9.4% SP) per stack. At 5 stacks 535 + (47% SP). Ticks every 3 seconds, reduced by haste. Censure is now applied by melee attacks (auto, CS, TV), this leads to far more reasonable stacking and for easier target swapping. Censure application can miss, while Censure ticks cannot miss.

Judgment
Base Damage: average 623
Coefficient: 54.6% of SP (and 32.8% of AP)
Generates Holy Power? Yes. Generate on Miss? No.
Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? Yes.

Damage does not change based on seal.

Exorcism
Base Damage: average 6,960
Coefficient: 67.7% of AP (no benefit from Spellpower).
Generates Holy Power? Yes. Generate on Miss? Yes.
Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? Yes.

Hammer of Wrath
Base Damage: 1747 to 1930
Coefficient: 161.0% SP.
Generates Holy Power? Yes. Generate on Miss? Yes.
Haste Reduction from Sanctity of Battle? Yes.

 1[/hr]

=Thread Change Log=
4/4/12 - Initial post.
4/5/12 - Updated through post #5 (Ronark's data).
4/7/12 - Updated through post #13.
4/8/12 - Updated through post #15.
4/11/12 - Updated with some things from MMO Champ data mining.
4/23/12 - Updated through post #18.
4/25/12 - Updated through post #22.
4/26/12 - Updated through post #26.
4/30/12 - Updated through post #30. HoW coefficient, DS and Exo Glyphs. SS from WoG to FoL.
5/1/12 - Updates for SS SP coefficient, HotR removed from Sanctity of Battle, Ascetic Crusader Glyph expanded to Judgment.
5/3/12 - LW Fur Lining. Flask.
5/12/12 - Divine Storm Damage update.
5/21/12 - Updated through post #50 (PoJ) with some additional commentary.
6/13/12 - Glyph of Exo to Glyph of TV change.
6/20/12 - Updated Sacred Shield, Clemency, Sanctified Wrath. TV Glyph.
7/11/12 - Through #112. Hit/Expertise ratings. Other ratings (thanks, aylen86!)
7/16/12 - Through #123. Updates to Talents, Glyphs, Censure (reduced), Exo (Sanct of Battle verified). Researched enchants and updated that section.
7/17/12 - Thanks aylen86 for enchant and ability damage updates! Gemming info updated thanks to Rakrath.
7/19/12 - CS damage reduction, SS change, updated Sword of Light tooltip.
7/23/12 - Inq no-clip. Thanks Rasputin.
7/30/12 - PoJ and SoR updates.
8/3/12 - Damage/coefficients from Ronark's and Phantoms' posts. 'Fixed' Judgment spelling, sadly trying to cheekily use strikeout on the 'e' was nearly unnoticeable, so 'e' was actually removed. Judgment is no longer a spell.
8/8/12 - Damage/coefficient updates from Beta build 15952. Execution Sentence base/coefficient from Balhale.
8/13/12 - Updated ES, HP, LH damage/coefficients.
8/16/12 - HA duration. CS, Judgement, TV damage reductions.
8/20/12 - DP tweak. CS, TV, HotR, HoW, and Judgment updates. Synapse Springs.
8/22/12 - Corrected Censure coefficients.
8/27/12 - Updated hit/expertise rating info.
8/30/12 - Updated DS damage, AOE breakpoints. Added L85 relative stat weights.
9/4/12 - note regarding going 1 point under hit/exp cap.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

#2 Thunderchylde

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:40 PM

Sacred Shield - Consumes 3 HP. Produces shield that increases Wog healing by 30% and absorbs 5353 damage per 6 seconds. Can be cast on others.


Costs mana, not HP (1200 I believe)

---

Holy Avenger - During GoAK your next 5 abilities that consume HP do not consume any and are cast as if 3 HP are used.


Actually now Zealotry - 2min CD, 18 or 20s duration, all HP generating abilities generate 3 HP.

---

There is a Glyph of the Ascetic Crusader as a Major that reduced the cost of CS still if we need it.

---

I will update when I'm online in the client, I can do a pass over the talents to verify/correct.

#3 Sagithor

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:46 PM

Sacred shield costs 6% base mana.
Sacred Shield - Spells - WOWDB

#4 Vanthil

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 08:13 PM

Repentance has no cd, but has a 1.5 sec cast time (and is affected by haste). It's also limited to 1 target at a time.

Glyph of Denounce - increases Holy Damage by 20% for 6 sec. (Triggered by ??)

Denounce is a holy only spell (to give them some sort of dps/pvp options).

#5 Ronark

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 08:39 PM

[SIZE="4"]
[*]Repentance - incapacitate enemy for 1 min (no CD listed?)
[*]Selfless Healer - Judgement hits reduce FoL cast time by 50%, increases effectiveness 50%. Stacks twice (instant cast, double effect)
[*]Sacred Shield - Consumes 3 HP. Produces shield that increases Wog healing by 30% and absorbs 5353 damage per 6 seconds. Can be cast on others.


Repentance has no CD. Think of it as a Polymorph/Sap combo.
Selfless Healer lasts 15 sec, and only increases healign when used on others.
SS is off the GCD, costs mana only.

Prime glyphs are no longer a slot. Most previous Prime glyphs have been removed or reworked as Major.

[*]Glyph of Denounce - increases Holy Damage by 20% for 6 sec. (Triggered by ??)
[*]Glyph of Divine Storm - heals caster for 1% max health.


Denounce is Holy's exclusive DPS spell (their version of a Druid's Wrath).
Glyph of Divine Storm scales with +Heal modifiers.

[*]You need 12% Hit to be melee capped. Autoattack, Crusader Strike, Templar's Verdict, and Hammer of Wrath all use the melee hit cap.
[*]You need ??% Hit to be spell capped. The only abilities that are affected by this are Exorcism and Judgement.
[*]You need 7% Expertise to be dodge and parry capped! Judgement and spell attacks cannot be dodged.


Currently expertise is NOT causing the Spell Hit table to increase, which it should. by capping 12% Hit and 7% Expertise, you will cap the Spell Hit table as well.


[*]Hammer of Wrath is ranged Holy damage, but behaves like many Hunter attacks in that it uses Melee Hit and Crit %. It can be deflected (possibly a parry) from the front. It is possible it cannot be dodged, with low cast quantity and most players hit capped there is insufficient data to prove either way.


Hunters now use Expertise, and so does HoW-- It can be dodge, not 100% sure on parry-- I'll do some tests tonight.

Seal of Right does 5% weapon damage, and Seal of Truth does 14% weapon damage.

Judgement
Generates Holy Power? Yes

Exorcism
Generates Holy Power? Yes

Hammer of Wrath
Generates Holy Power? Yes


Should be noted that Judgements that miss do not generate Holy Power; Missed Exorcisms, and Missed/Dodged HoW's do generate Holy Power.

An in-depth look at my testing results can be viewed Here: http://elitistjerks....p5/#post2123303



Editing this post for additional information. Please note this information is taken at level 85, and unless previous levels are not retroactive the values should remain consistent at L90.

Melee Hit chance remains at 8% to cap.
Spell Hit chance remains at 15%. Once Expertise affects Spell Hit, you will need 8% Hit and 7% Expertise to cap Spell Hit.
Expertise chance is now 7.5% (up from 6.5%).
Expertise does indeed remove Parry from the front. It does not, however, lower the target's Block chance.

Max level cap on Beta currently is 86; It will be a few patches until L90rating can be determined.

Spells can no longer be resisted, period. They are able to Hit, Miss, and Crit, along with other factors that impede damage (i.e. absorb). "Resistances" continue to reduce spell damage by a fixed percentage.

Autoattack
((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage

Crusader Strike
((((AP/14) * 3.3 ) + Weapon damage) * 160%) + A fixed value based on level (increases with +Dmg modifiers like AW)

Hammer of the Righteous
((((AP/14) * 3.3 ) + Weapon damage) * 20%)

AOE damage calculated as: ??

Templar's Verdict
(((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 260% + A fixed value based on level (increases with +Dmg modifiers)

Divine Storm
(((AP/14) * Weaponspeed) + Weapon damage) * 50% as Holy


Seal of Righteousness
((((AP/14) * 3.3 ) + Weapon damage) * 5%)

Seal of Justice
((((AP/14) * 3.3 ) + Weapon damage) * 16%)

Seal of Truth
((((AP/14) * 3.3 ) + Weapon damage) * 14%)

Censure: (??% AP + ??% SP) per stack. At 5 stacks (??% AP + ??% SP). Ticks every 3 seconds, reduced by haste. Testing not done.

Judgement
Base Damage: average 1020
Coefficient: 71% AP or 63% of SP, whichever is higher.
Data:
Spoiler


Exorcism
Base Damage: average 9,770 at 85
Coefficient: ??% of AP ONLY. (Exact AP Value inconclusive without a larger sample size)
Data:
Spoiler

Additional information:
-* Art of War procs are not normalized across weapon speeds. Using a 1.6 weapon for testing SP over a 2.6 weapon for testing AP, I noticed an increased amount of AoW procs.
-* It makes sense that Exorcism has no SP component, as it is Ret exclusive.

Hammer of Wrath
Base Damage: average 5,300 at 85
Coefficient: ??% AP ONLY.
Data: None at this time. Testing not done.
Additional information:
-* Though I have not tested the actual values, the Tooltip does not increase with significant SP values (7k+)
-* It makes sense that HoW has no SP component, as it is Ret exclusive.
-* Hammer of Wrath cannot be parried-- It either Misses, is Dodged, Hits, or Crits.

#6 Tourism

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 12:02 PM

Censure: (??% AP + ??% SP) per stack. At 5 stacks (??% AP + ??% SP). Ticks every 3 seconds, reduced by haste. Censure is now applied by melee attacks (auto, CS, TV), this leads to far reasonable stacking and for easier target swapping.


Censure ticks for ((0.028 * SP + 0.056 * AP) * STACKS) every 3 seconds, reduced by haste.

Test 1:
Spoiler


Test 2:
Spoiler


#7 Theck

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 12:44 PM

Regarding this (and one of Ronark's related comments):

You need 8% Hit to be melee capped. Autoattack, Crusader Strike, Templar's Verdict, and Hammer of Wrath all use the melee hit cap.
You need 7.5% Expertise to be dodge and parry capped! Judgement and spell attacks cannot be dodged.
You need 15% Spellhit to be spell capped. Both Hit and Expertise contribute to Spellhit, therefore at 8% Hit + 7.5% Expertise you would be at 15.5% Spellhit and beyond the cap. The only abilities that are affected by this are Exorcism and Judgement.


I'm pretty sure the new hit/exp system outlined by Ghostcrawler in a recent blog post hasn't been fully implemented on beta yet. I've done some testing against an equal-level boss dummy at 85 and seen more than the advertised 3% miss chance. I plan to repeat some of these tests this weekend with 5% hit, because my suspicion is that melee hit is still using the old formula (5% against equal-level, 8% against boss).

Also note that all of the boss-level dummies on the beta servers are hard-coded at level 93, which might be why you're seeing the 12% melee hit if you're testing with an 85. It also means you should see spell miss rates in the 60% range.

My testing so far has been limited to level 85, but there are some relevant results:
-Tourism's Censure formula matches our testing (1.6x the tooltip values).
-HotR aoe attack does not make a separate attack roll. It automatically hits every target in range, regardless of level, if the physical attack succeeds.
-Seal of Truth uses un-normalized weapon damage (i.e. a 1.5 speed weapon will add 14% of AP/14*1.5 instead of AP/14*2.4)
-Seal of Truth and Censure cannot miss. Applications of Censure can miss (melee miss rate), but not be dodged/parried. Both can crit.
-Seal of Righteousness cannot miss and hits all targets in range (exactly like HotR), does 5% of normalized weapon damage, can crit.
-Seal of Justice is likely bugged, as it currently has no AP scaling at all. It's just doing 16% of base weapon damage.
-During Avenging Wrath, Consecration updates on-the-fly, Censure updates on next refresh

#8 Grigorim

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:22 PM

Tier 4
...
Lackluster tier, providing possible marginal PvP utility.


Unbreakable Spirit is a fairly large survivability increase, at least in the current 5 man. It will be less effective in raids where you have more consistent/skilled healers, perhaps, but in my experience it consistently halves the CD on DS and LoH (DP being shorter CD, not so much).

#9 Ronark

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 06:41 PM

Unbreakable Spirit is a fairly large survivability increase, at least in the current 5 man. It will be less effective in raids where you have more consistent/skilled healers, perhaps, but in my experience it consistently halves the CD on DS and LoH (DP being shorter CD, not so much).


DP was averaging an eCD of 43 sec with an optimal rotation and Exorcism procs (no T13 used)

#10 aylen86

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 06:20 AM

With the latest beta build our 2pc t13 setbonus was changed.

So no more double dipping from judgement holypower.

On another note, Emancipate is a new and very interesting ability especially for pvp paladins. It's a cheap version of Every Man for Himself with no cooldown and moderate mana cost (5,000).

#11 Ronark

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 06:32 AM

The tier bonus is already in effect but Judgment still generates 2 HP-- unless the server side script was also changed.

#12 aylen86

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 07:00 AM

Well this is a little bit odd but it's beta. Since last night my judgements only return 1 holy power and I'm wearing 2pc t13, but my spellbook declares Improved Judgment as missing.

Visiting the trainer does not help, there are no new spells to learn and respecing helps neither.


Then Guardian of Ancient Kings is back in the spellbook as a regular Retribution cooldown.

#13 Grigorim

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 04:02 PM

On another note, Emancipate is a new and very interesting ability especially for pvp paladins. It's a cheap version of Every Man for Himself with no cooldown and moderate mana cost (5,000).


Don't get your hopes up. The description is "Unshackles your spirit, freeing you from one movement impairing effect." That sounds more like old Acts of Sacrifice, which they might be untying from Cleanse as AoS would be basically useless under the new "8s CD on dispels" model. Doesn't appear to do anything regarding stuns or loss of control of character effects.

#14 Ronark

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Posted 07 April 2012 - 06:02 PM

For completion, you could include that all Spells now crit for 2x damage before other multipliers (e.g. Meta gems). This largely only affects Exorcism as Judgment always had double crit damage on Live

#15 Theck

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:14 PM

Follow-up on my earlier post: Beta is confirmed to erroneously be using a melee hit cap of ~5% instead of 3% against an equal-level target. Spell hit against an equal-level target appears to be working properly (6%).

Also confirmed that HotR is not weapon-speed normalized.

#16 Exemplar

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 12:23 PM

Updated the OP with some information from MMO-Champion datamining:
Glyph of Double Jeopardy
Glyph of Mass Exorcism
Leatherworking Str leg kit
Updated values for Eternal Flame, Sacred Shield, Holy Prism, Light's Hammer.

Note that the talent tooltips all seem to reference SP coefficients. I'm presently theorizing they say SP but will actually use greater of AP or SP. Then again, they may just not have the tooltips loaded with all the information yet (entirely possible!).
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

#17 Ronark

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:16 AM

After looking at the gems in the database, it seems that Secondary stats (Haste, Mastery, Stamina, Dodge, Spirit, etc) have 50% more "points" than Primary stats (Strength, Agility, and Intellect).

Compare the Bold Serpent's Eye (which is +320 Strength) to the Fractured Serpent's Eye (of +480 Mastery Rating). Add in the fact that the Enchanter Ring enchants are giving 160 Primary stats, we should except to see a Bold Rare MoP gem give 160 Strength and a Fractured Rare MoP gem give 240 Mastery, etc.

#18 tukchen

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 05:05 PM

From my testing on the beta, HotR requires a minimum of 5 targets to produce more dps than crusader strike.

Crusader Strike:
18449 + 9335 (Hand of Light)

HotR:
[1877 (Physical) + 1357 (Hand of Light)] + n * [5170 (wave)]

HotR only procs Hand of Light on the primary target. Divine Storm hits for 50% weapon damage as Holy damage and procs Hand of Light on all targets hit.

I can't remember exactly what blizzard are doing to melee weapons but I recall them stating that the weapon damage is going down but stats are going up. So perhaps with Mists gear HotR will hit harder than Crusader Strike for ~3 targets.

#19 Ronark

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 03:30 AM

From the new Beta build information on MMO-C (build 15640), it seems that every ability will scale from SP alone and not from AP (directly, anyways).

Additionally, Hammer of Wrath will no longer generate a charge of Holy Power, but to compensate HoW will benefit from Mastery. GAnK also had its cooldown reverted back to 5 minutes.

#20 Phantoms

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 06:19 AM

From the new Beta build information on MMO-C (build 15640), it seems that every ability will scale from SP alone and not from AP (directly, anyways).

Additionally, Hammer of Wrath will no longer generate a charge of Holy Power, but to compensate HoW will benefit from Mastery. GAnK also had its cooldown reverted back to 5 minutes.


Assuming tooltip is bugged or something is fishy, but HoW still currently grants 1 charge of HP on use, and is useable during Avenging Wrath. (contrary to the tooltip change that was posted tonight.)

GoAK is a 5 minute CD though. That one went through.




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