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[Ret 5.0 Pre-MoP] - Panda-ring to all players


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#461 averykey

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:28 AM

How can I find the stat priorities from simcraft? I have been reading it's best to reforge with amr or wr, and then run a sim, then input the stat weights that simcraft gives you into amr or wr.

I have the first part down but I am unsure on how to obtain the stat weights from simcraft, I have ran a sim and looked at all the graphs and I don't see anything about stat weights, can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks.

#462 Agusta

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:10 PM

How can I find the stat priorities from simcraft? [...] can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks.

I think you have to go into the options, on the "Scaling" tab and choose which stat to analyse.

#463 averykey

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:15 PM

I think you have to go into the options, on the "Scaling" tab and choose which stat to analyse.




Thank you, worked :D.

#464 Exemplar

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:29 PM

L90 MoP Spreadsheet release: here.
Updated L85 spreadsheet for those who want it: here.

A lot of gear (mostly leveling/quest, I believe) has locations marked as unknown. Wowhead is behind the curve for once. Please PM if you find an issue with calculations or gear with incorrect values (I key it by hand).

Findings are as follows:
Dungeon Gear shows DP=HA (HA is 0.1% less) > SW (0.5% less).
T14 Gear shows SW > DP (2% less) > HA (1% less).

T14 leans towards SW because the 85 second AW reduction (more AW, all 10 seconds longer = good). Otherwise talent choice is pretty much up to preference.

Hit and Expertise cap in dungeon gear will require work, but by the end of the tier it's easy to overcap even reforging away from both stats.

Weights are similar between the gearsets.
Str > Haste > Crit/Mastery

Str is beating Haste by more than 2 to 1 in Dungeon gear, and a bit less than 2 to 1 in Heroic raid gear. Currently I would recommend straight Str in red sockets - the extra 50% secondary stats does not seem to pull ahead. Crit and Mastery flip-flop depending on gear and stats, they remain very close in value.

Some priorities can juice another couple hundred DPS (a whopping 0.5% to 1% gain), but ES > HoW > Exo > CS > J performs fine under all talent setups. Logically delaying ES shouldn't lose us much DPS, but dropping it lower than 2nd position does noticeably reduce DPS. Balhale was right (though I still don't agree on a valuation of 15 second delay average).

Unless I'm calculating Light's Hammer damage wrong, it appears to beat ES with 2 targets (Boss + 1). Drawbacks are immobility, click-to-place, and averages (you need to average 1 extra target who is hit by every tick - short lived adds or one add only once wouldn't be worth it). HP never seems worthwhile compared to LH/ES.

I tentatively plan thread re-launch on Sunday, at which time I'll ask this thread be closed.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

#465 Balhale

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 08:40 PM

Running a 2 target sim with LH vs. ES has ES very slightly ahead. 0.5% difference at T14H level, 0.8% difference in pre-raid gear. So if you can average 2 targets for all ticks of LH it's fairly safe to say you can go with either.

T14H BiS Stat Weights:
http://3.chart.apis....&chts=dddddd,18

I will get pre raid ones done shortly - my profile is old and needs reforging.

#466 Theck

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 05:30 PM

Running a 2 target sim with LH vs. ES has ES very slightly ahead. 0.5% difference at T14H level, 0.8% difference in pre-raid gear. So if you can average 2 targets for all ticks of LH it's fairly safe to say you can go with either..


This depends on how much AP you have, basically. Consider the formulas:
ES: 10023+4.566*SP
LH (1T): 8*(2792+0.247*SP) = 22336+1.976*SP
LH (2T): 8*(2792+0.247*SP)*2 = 44672+3.952*SP

Set ES=LH(2T) and solve for SP to get:

SP=56432,

which means that the breakpoint is 112864 AP. Above that value, ES will do more damage, below LH will do more (assuming both targets take the full duration, of course).

#467 Ronark

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 06:44 PM

Does your sim take in account the resource (GCD) cost for LH being used on cool down?

#468 Balhale

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:44 PM

This depends on how much AP you have, basically. Consider the formulas:
ES: 10023+4.566*SP
LH (1T): 8*(2792+0.247*SP) = 22336+1.976*SP
LH (2T): 8*(2792+0.247*SP)*2 = 44672+3.952*SP

Set ES=LH(2T) and solve for SP to get:

SP=56432,

which means that the breakpoint is 112864 AP. Above that value, ES will do more damage, below LH will do more (assuming both targets take the full duration, of course).


I think you have the old formulas there.

Should be ES: 12989 + 5.936*SP
LH(1T): 8*(3630+0.321*SP)= 29024 + 2.568*SP
LH(2T): 58088+ 5.136*SP

SP= 56376 AP=112752

That's interesting. I wonder why the sim has ES coming out above LH, considering that it only has about half those AP/SP values. They are getting the same buffs, used at the same time interval, but ES is doing more damage. Maybe a multitarget implementation problem?

Does your sim take in account the resource (GCD) cost for LH being used on cool down?


It's the same as ES. 1GCD per minute.

#469 Iroared

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:51 PM

Regarding WoG/Harsh Words glyphs, there's currently a bug in simcraft that causes word_of_glory_damage to consume no holy power.

With this bug temp-fixed, I was unable to get a dps increase, even if WoG was only used under HA (though the gap is very close in that case, below 1%). This is with both T13H and T14H profiles (modified to use HA instead of improved AW).

Regarding LH vs ES, it appears LH doesn't benefit from inquisition according to simcraft (another bug.. it does on beta, right?). ES is getting a damage multiplier of 1.56/1.3 with/without AW, while LH gets 1.2/1 respectively.

#470 Balhale

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:49 PM

I'll fix the LH inquisition bug. I know about the word_of_glory_damage bug - it's a pain in the neck to fix properly because of the way Blizzard put the spell together.

The WoG/Harsh Word interaction at all is a bug though. They aren't supposed to work together.

#471 Theck

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:52 PM

I think you have the old formulas there.

Should be ES: 12989 + 5.936*SP
LH(1T): 8*(3630+0.321*SP)= 29024 + 2.568*SP
LH(2T): 58088+ 5.136*SP

SP= 56376 AP=112752

That's interesting. I wonder why the sim has ES coming out above LH, considering that it only has about half those AP/SP values. They are getting the same buffs, used at the same time interval, but ES is doing more damage. Maybe a multitarget implementation problem?


You're right, I was looking at an old revision of my code.

#472 Iroared

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:53 AM

The WoG/Harsh Word interaction at all is a bug though. They aren't supposed to work together.

The WoG glyph doesn't say it only procs from healing, so this seems to be working as intended. I don't doubt that it will be changed if we figure out a way to benefit from it, though.

#473 Tobrexa

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 02:21 PM

I just wanted to add very quickly that Seal of Righteousness procs on every Divine Storm hit, as it used to in Cataclysm mechanics. I cannot seem to recall this being mentioned and I am curious if this affects the number of mobs needed to switch to SoR. It is the only seal that interacts with DS, just as SoT is the only one interacting with Judgment.

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That here, by Spartan law, we lie.


#474 Exemplar

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 04:00 PM

That could drop the necessary targets to 5 or even 4. However, remember losing the GCD to swap to SoR (and back afterwards) means you need the targets for around 30 seconds to break even.

FYI - I'm requesting this thread be closed and locked. The new MoP-live thread has been opened here.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

#475 Balhale

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 07:41 PM

The WoG glyph doesn't say it only procs from healing, so this seems to be working as intended. I don't doubt that it will be changed if we figure out a way to benefit from it, though.


There was a blue post saying it isn't intended.




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