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SimulationCraft for Warlocks (Panda Edition)


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#21 NanoHaxial

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 06:45 AM

For Destruction, Chaos Bolt DTR won't deal the same damage as Chaos Bolt unless you have more than one Ember (in which case two will be comsumed). I believe the proc isn't benefiting from the mastery bonus you get for consuming an Ember. I haven't tested it, but Shadowburn might work the same way. Additionally, Incinerate DTR won't consume Backdraft charges.

chaos_bolt,if=ember_react&(buff.dark_soul.up|burning_ember>=20)&target.health.pct>=25

Should the health percentage be 20% here?

#22 Zakalwe

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 10:37 AM

chaos_bolt,if=ember_react&(buff.dark_soul.up|burning_ember>=20)&target.health.pct>=25

Should the health percentage be 20% here?

No, the idea is to stop using embers for chaos bolt a while *before* you can start casting shadowburn, so you have more embers stored up for the execute phase.

#23 AmPriS

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 02:09 AM

Some questions related to the preliminary Demo spec simcraft statistics.

Why are you using Corruption over Doom?

On the character sheet for the demo spec, you are reforging significantly towards haste when only corruption(ticks), shadow bolt (cast time), and HoG(dot component ticks) take advantage of it. Is it simply to generate Demonic Fury faster? Do we know the new haste thresholds to gain extra ticks?

#24 Zakalwe

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 06:16 AM

I'm using Corruption over Doom because that results in better DPS.

All three specs are using the same gear/reforge setup, and I likely won't be optimizing that for each spec until things settle down and I feel comfortable there aren't going to be more significant changes. The scale factors do seem to indicate demo should be reforging for mastery, not haste.

#25 lida

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Posted 03 May 2012 - 11:52 AM

They nerfed Lash of Pain
Lash of Pain - Pet Abilities - Spells - WOWDB

#26 Zakalwe

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 05:30 PM

For Destruction, Chaos Bolt DTR won't deal the same damage as Chaos Bolt unless you have more than one Ember (in which case two will be comsumed). I believe the proc isn't benefiting from the mastery bonus you get for consuming an Ember.

I've tested this after the most recent beta patch, and it doesn't seem to work that way now. My DTR-copied CB did the same damage as the original one, regardless of how many embers I had. It did consume two embers if I had two or more, though.

EDIT: Interestingly, that last part is only true for CB. Shadowburn behaves in the exact same way except that the DTR copy never costs embers.

#27 AmPriS

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 02:38 AM

In the sample sequence for Simulationcraft for Demo, HoG is being casted while in Meta or at least at times where it is not indicated that Meta is being cancelled.

Is that because you are naturally falling out of meta?

Also it seems that the priority rotation is doing very good job of keeping up Corruption without having to hard cast it.

The command (metamorphosis,if=(demonic_fury>=500&action.hand_of_guldan.charges=0)|demonic_fury>=target.time_to_die*8) if I understand it correctly that means Meta is only entered into when DF is greater than or equal to 500 AND (not OR) HoG has zero charges.

The Sim timeline shows the lock entering into Meta form before reaching 500 DF. It also shows the lock reaching near 0 DF quite often.

Do these conditions allow the lock to enter into meta form with near perfect timing to refresh corruption or is something a little off in the sim?

#28 Zakalwe

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:09 AM

In the sample sequence for Simulationcraft for Demo, HoG is being casted while in Meta or at least at times where it is not indicated that Meta is being cancelled.

Is that because you are naturally falling out of meta?

Yes.

Also it seems that the priority rotation is doing very good job of keeping up Corruption without having to hard cast it.

The command (metamorphosis,if=(demonic_fury>=500&action.hand_of_guldan.charges=0)|demonic_fury>=target.time_to_die*8) if I understand it correctly that means Meta is only entered into when DF is greater than or equal to 500 AND (not OR) HoG has zero charges.

The Sim timeline shows the lock entering into Meta form before reaching 500 DF. It also shows the lock reaching near 0 DF quite often.

Do these conditions allow the lock to enter into meta form with near perfect timing to refresh corruption or is something a little off in the sim?

It's not clear to me what you're asking here. You do appear to understand the quoted action condition correctly, and as you'll notice there's nothing about corruption in it or in any other metamorphosis-related action condition, so the fact that the actor often ends up not having to recast corruption is mostly coincidence. It does end up recasting corruption on average 3.5 times per fight, so it's not perfect at all.

It's also not clear to me what timeline you're looking at nor how you're inferring what you're inferring from it. I do not think the actor will be reaching 0 DF very often at all, and it will definitely not be entering meta before reaching 500 DF except when there is less than a minute left of the fight. (Though it should be noted time_to_die is an estimate, not a perfect prediction of the future.)

#29 Macemighty

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:43 AM

Have you tried putting Rain of Fire in the Destro sim?

#30 Zakalwe

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:44 AM

Have you tried putting Rain of Fire in the Destro sim?

It's already there.

#31 AmPriS

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:13 AM

It's also not clear to me what timeline you're looking at nor how you're inferring what you're inferring from it. I do not think the actor will be reaching 0 DF very often at all, and it will definitely not be entering meta before reaching 500 DF except when there is less than a minute left of the fight. (Though it should be noted time_to_die is an estimate, not a perfect prediction of the future.)


The resource timeline for demonic fury that is listed on simulation craft. Perhaps I am reading it incorrectly.

http://5.chart.apis....&chts=dddddd,18

#32 Zakalwe

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:38 AM

You're probably reading too much into it, yeah - it's an average timeline for all the iterations. For each individual iteration the top of each fluctuation reaches 500 DF, but because these tops occur at slightly different points for each iteration, each top gets averaged with lower values from other iterations. As the fight progresses, randomness causes the timing of the metamorphosis phases to vary more and more between different iterations, which is why the amplitude of the graph is pretty close to 500 at the beginning but then decreases steadily.

#33 zinnin

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:15 PM

I am fairly certain that using backdraft on chaos bolt is a dps loss right now. You gain more benefit just using it on incinerate.

#34 Zakalwe

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:14 PM

I am fairly certain that using backdraft on chaos bolt is a dps loss right now. You gain more benefit just using it on incinerate.

I can't discern a significant difference between the two strategies (holding off on chaos bolt until your backdraft stack is below 3 vs just casting it whenever), so I'm sticking to the simpler one.

#35 zinnin

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 12:15 AM

I can't discern a significant difference between the two strategies (holding off on chaos bolt until your backdraft stack is below 3 vs just casting it whenever), so I'm sticking to the simpler one.


Hmm, I would have thought it would be a bigger difference, basically using it on chaos bolt is equivalent of only using 2 stacks of backdraft, and clicking the 3rd off. Before haste using it on chaos bolt is getting 4s of cast time reduced, compared to 6. Interesting.

#36 Zakalwe

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:28 AM

Have you tried putting Rain of Fire in the Destro sim?

I should note that RoF is currently not generating Burning Embers in the sim. First of all, I can't find any tooltip or spell data indicating that this is intended behavior, but more importantly I can't figure out how it works. It seems to randomly generate embers when immolate is up on the target, but certainly not consistently one ember per tick. More like a 50% chance, maybe? Has anyone done any extensive testing, or am I missing some other information on what the proc chance is?

#37 whi

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:07 AM

Ingame tooltip states: "Deals 50% additional damage and generates burning embers if the target is immolated."

Did a quick test on a single dummy here, and got 154 embers out of 332 rof ticks, so assuming that dtr's rof procs burning embers aswell it's pretty close to 50% - and if it doesn't it's even closer. ;)

#38 Zakalwe

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:14 AM

So critical strikes do not generate two embers?

#39 whi

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:36 AM

So critical strikes do not generate two embers?

No, and the chance doesn't seem to bumped to 100% to generate one either.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis - 3 immolated targets, no dtr - 476 embers out of 978 rof ticks, fits quite well with the 50% chance, scales nicely with the number of targets hit.

#40 Zakalwe

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:03 PM

Thanks. Those mechanics are now implemented in the sim.




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