Jump to content


Photo

Enhance me [5.3] - Now with 100% more CDs and 232% more haste-love!


  • Please log in to reply
113 replies to this topic

#101 Pyrdon

Pyrdon

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 44 posts

Posted 11 June 2013 - 01:21 PM

Afaik guardians update dynamically with your stats.

#102 chrisirl

chrisirl

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 15 posts

Posted 12 June 2013 - 06:11 PM

Thanks Pyrdon.

Lots of buffs coming Enh Sham way in 5.4 as of now. Any comments on the ele glyph change from 40% reduction of CD to 50% making it a 2.5min cd? It could net more dps if we get 1 or 2 more ele usages in a fight, but what about the impact of decoupling it from racial/glove etc. that also benefit ascendance every 3min?

#103 Pyrdon

Pyrdon

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 44 posts

Posted 13 June 2013 - 05:25 AM

Change seems kinda random to me, but at least your 4th FE (at 7.5min) will again get the benefit from EM =/
I haven't made any math yet, but I would think that having 30 seconds more of your Primal Fireelemental will be better than 2 times of 15 seconds in which your FE is combined with EM.

Regarding the other most interesting point: the tier-set and the 4pc-set-bonus as a fix to our AOE:
It is definitely a win in a situation with many adds and many rolling FS (at least, if every FS is able to procc the effect), but I still don't see how it will solve the problematic of needing to hold LL back to start the AOE at all.

#104 Eeinx

Eeinx

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 52 posts

Posted 13 June 2013 - 02:01 PM

Just a couple notes on 5.4:

We're already assuming that the copied flame shocks will proc the 4pc. We need further testing to prove this.

Depending on the procrate of the 4pc and wether or not it will proc from copied FS from LL, it could weight offhand dps higher than main hand.

But most importantly:
I can't wait until people roll into random bg mid and super mario hammer people into their graves.

EDIT:
someone mentioned to me that with identical weapons, the offhand speed is 0.01s slower.
Can someone check if this is a character sheet bug or actually exists in game?
I'm not 100% sure the sim reflects it. But it could be something that makes a chunk of difference in dps with our current haste hungry builds.
Play Brewmaster; work on Windwalker module. Makes sense.

#105 Pyrdon

Pyrdon

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 44 posts

Posted 13 June 2013 - 02:51 PM

Can't remember having seen that in any logs the last time a rolled through the logbrowser in WoL, but I might check it another time.

#106 Eeinx

Eeinx

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 52 posts

Posted 13 June 2013 - 03:38 PM

My aplogies, i may not have been clear on the issue.

Someone mentioned to me that in the character sheet, it shows off-hand speed as 0.01s slower than main hand speed. I'm not sure if the character sheet is bugged or this is intended. This may not only exist with identical weapons.

I'll check when i'm at home but if anyone can verify before then, that would be helpful too. :)
Play Brewmaster; work on Windwalker module. Makes sense.

#107 Pyrdon

Pyrdon

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 44 posts

Posted 14 June 2013 - 06:10 AM

Oh, okay, I see what you mean. I've seen that strange behavior once before (don't know if it was on my rogue in cata or on my shammy).
Anyway, I just looked again and saw the strange thing happening again:

I just got the heroic Tia-Tia on wednesday and if I equip that, I have 1.99/2.00 attackspeed with the tf Kura-Kura in my offhand. (On higher haste levels, with flurry for example, it drops to 1.54/1.54 or so again)
When I switch back to my old weapon, Fist of Animus, I get 1.99/1.99.

I also made some logs of me autohitting the dummies to check the timestamps exactly, because ingame they only count seconds, not milliseconds.

Can submit new ones anytime you need them.

Logs of Tia-Tia + Kura-Kura (unequipt meta later on, lost haste from the helmet and thus ended up 2.04/2.04; tried SS an ES for syncing)
Spoiler


Not wearing the helm results in haste loss and thus 2.04/2.04 for Tia-Tia + Kura-Kura and 2.03/2.04 for Kura-Kura + Fist
Spoiler


Logs are found here
Dashboard - 14-06 07:49 - Critters - World of Logs

#108 Eltoro

Eltoro

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 11 July 2013 - 04:07 PM

It doesn't matter. Pets and guardians nowaday directly scale with your stats and don't snapshot them anymore, as they used to do, which is why you used BL, pots and trinkets before them.


Sweet! was just about to post a question about this. May be worth making a note in the stats area about this. Also , is it safe to assume that their %hit / %crit/ %spell hit/ and so on are all affected by your stats, and affect the weight of those stats?

May seem a bit pointless, but with the T15 4 piece set bonus how would that affect how much Crit, Mastery, and Haste are scored.

#109 beetlejuice

beetlejuice

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 34 posts

Posted 03 August 2013 - 12:26 PM

Thanks Pyrdon.

Lots of buffs coming Enh Sham way in 5.4 as of now. Any comments on the ele glyph change from 40% reduction of CD to 50% making it a 2.5min cd? It could net more dps if we get 1 or 2 more ele usages in a fight, but what about the impact of decoupling it from racial/glove etc. that also benefit ascendance every 3min?


In fact this is a huge nerf. Why? PE goes well with EM. (AS and Echo , i use only on AOE fights with big chuncks of aoe time)

So let's theorycraft on the go. the 5.4 Primal Elemental glyph will give you a Fire elemental for 30 seconds every 2.5 minutes. The battle time needed so that the new glyph will spawn a Fire Elemental more than the 5.3 glyph is at a 10.5minutes fight. However there are not many 10.5 min fights. More often you will see a 6-9 min battle so sometimes you don't glyph the fire elemental and just spawn it at 6mins (to sync again with EM and delayed Stormlash totem) and sometimes you glyph it. I don't think that there is a viable option of spamming every cooldown buff on cd and not synchronizing them together either. Cds after all work better if combined.

Two options if you want your Fire Elemental Glyphed.

1) To use Elemental Mastery on sync all the time with the new glyph, you will have to refrain your self from using it every 1.5 minute, resulting in a 2.5 min condition of use for the Elemental Mastery. Also Berserking and orc racial and lifeblood will become a 5min condition of use to sync it again with fire elemental. I really believe that delaying 2 haste cds that affect most of our personal dps is a mistake. Less Maelstroms, less flameshock ticks , less autoattacks etc.

2) We will still spawn our fire elemental every 3 minutes, sacrificing 30seconds of ready cd in order to use our racial (troll orc etc) with elemental mastery AND fire elemental.
This way the fire elemental will fight 30seconds every 3 minutes (resulting in a 17% less dps time compared to 5.3 glyph). However 30seconds are more than enough to fit your Elemental Mastery and Racial/Lifeblood together for your Fire Elemental. Spreading and delaying your racial and haste cds to sync it with a 2.5 min fire elemental doesn't feel right, especially if the fight is less than 10.5 minutes.
So say, this, if a fight is at 6-7 minutes, with this strategy on cds we will spawn the fire elemental same times as if we spammed it every 2.5 minutes, with the advantage of having it buffed all the times. If the Fight won't fight perfectly 3 min spam of fire elemental, we can decide on the go how to deal with it. But it generaly seems better to me and gives ease of brain to just use it every 3 mins . Heroic modes especially are really unforgiving, spaming all cds on cd is tiring. Better to sync them every 3 mins ^^

I would add another parameter in this post but totemic restoration is gone at 5.4. If we had it at 5.4 we could just spawn our fire elemental as long as our haste/racial cds are up then with draw it. In theory i think we could spam it every 1.5 minute like this! And yes now that i think about it this is the reason totemic restoration is gone ...So we won't have our fire elemental glyphed and out every 1.5 min masacring poor bosses.

So the changes on fire elemental glyph and totemic restoration are intended and were intended to hurt our dps.

So no, i don't expect to see buffs in 5.4 for us, enhancement shamans.

We are getting bad nerfs.

1) Elemental Glyph can't sync with our haste cds or syncs with less dps time overall (17% les unbuffed dps time )
2) Our Healing storm is nerfed and we can't be extremely useful on aoe stack situations anymore with healing rain and maelstrom x 5
3) Totemic Restoration is gone, we can't fine tune our fire elemental so that it's ready at bloodlust call
4) RPPM trinkets won't proc at pull, almost never
5) RPPM trinkets will get a fix so that they won't double dip on haste if they are trinkets of proc main stat for x seconds.
You can read about 5) at EU Battle net RPPM new info
Also i am including the rppm changes because they will hurt above all, all specs who stack primarily haste.

Ok where are the buffs? Oh yes,
Stormstrike affects Elemental Blast. NOT! it was withdrawn at latest PTR.

About Lava Lash, seriously it is laughable that they implement a single damage skill to proc at aoe situations. The idea is to spread flameshock faster but i wonder how will we be able to use our aoe rotation, Fire Nova, chain lightning, unleash elements, something else, fire nova again while spamming that Lava Lash.
And i really want to ask something that i am not sure about. If you have 10 targets and you lava lash your flame shocked target once, flame shock will spread to 4 more. Will the next Lava Lash spread flame shock to another 4 targets undoted from Flame Shock? Or are they picked randomly without checking if they already have your flame shock on them? If it is the first case then i don't see any reason to spam lava lash except 2-3 times on 10 targets, If it is the later, then Lava Lash should be spammed until you are sure all targets are flame shocked, then return to more focused aoe dps rotation.

#110 Chillbro

Chillbro

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 10 August 2013 - 03:53 PM

I'd say "huge nerf," is an exaggeration. As you stated yourself, as long as you just delay the FE 30 seconds, it still lines up with EM/Berkserking/Lifeblood/Ascendance. Most of FE's damage is frontloaded, so 6 seconds less of uptime is not a huge deal.

Yes, Healing Storm is being nerfed, but it needs to. Before, we put out almost as much healing as a healer with no noticeable DPS loss. We still put out more healing than any offhealer, while doing competitive DPS.

I'm not aware of many situations where using TR to line up a CD for bloodlust instead of just delaying your CD or just not bothering to line up with BL would be worth it.

Yes, the largest nerf enhancement is getting is the RPPM changes. However, Blizzard hasn't even done the numbers pass yet, so it's premature to start saying we'll be weak next patch. Also, our set bonuses will be a larger DPS increase than we have seen from tier in a long long time.

Incorrect, the SS debuff still affects EB, that was a datamined tooltip for SS when you choose not to talent EB.

Incorporating more LL's into an AoE rotation (not sure of how many situations we'll see prolonged AoE in 5.4, my money is on not many) is pretty easy, considering UE has a long CD and CL has a relatively small DPS increase compared to getting more FS's and FN's out.

Currently, LL refreshes the FS on targets it is spread to if they already have FS on them, so that alone is useful considering you have time between FN uses. Unsure on how it prioritizes who it spreads the debuff to though, i.e. to the closest targets with or without a debuff or to the targets in range without a debuff.

#111 beetlejuice

beetlejuice

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 34 posts

Posted 24 August 2013 - 09:44 AM

Your forum name did calm me down (chillbro) (and i loved your transmogr) . I saw all those reductions together and i was rather shocked. As the ptr progresses towards live version it seems that blizzard is reducing some nerfs on numbers.

Currently, LL refreshes the FS on targets it is spread to if they already have FS on them, so that alone is useful considering you have time between FN uses. Unsure on how it prioritizes who it spreads the debuff to though, i.e. to the closest targets with or without a debuff or to the targets in range without a debuff.


If Lava Lash spreads FS perfectly on 2nd hit (4 new targets) then it is a good set bonus even though i wonder if we have tier 16 boss fights where we AOE 4+ targets in a small radius. If it spreads FS randomly then perhaps the cd reset is useful as a passive skill but definitely it's not that awesome to be tier set bonus. :/

Two things i am concerned with in 5.4.

1) Will haste be closer to mastery now that the rppm trinkets will have a cooldown on pull and that these trinkets wont "double dip" * on haste?

2) The new trinkets at tier 16 content, linking from wowhead ptr.

Assurance of Consequence BiS i guess? If these numbers are final .. I took some info from Enhance shaman CD reduction which link i found from wowhead.ptr comments about this trinket.

This explains the change on the glyph of fire elemental **. If you glyph FE with this trinket i suppose you will get FE cd down to 108seconds (3.6mins = 3min 36sec = 216 seconds -> glyphed = 108sec). 108 seconds is slightly more than Elemental Mastery of 90 seconds and ascendance cd will be 129.6 (2.16 mins = 2 mins 9.6seconds = 129.6seconds)
I will be spamming EM Ascendance and FE glyphed every 129.6 seconds and be done with them. Racials, engineer glove buff and alchemy haste cd should be used delayed and only when EM/Ascendance/FE glyphed are ready to be used again.

Haromm's Talisman Fun and possibly our high end gear BiS

Sigil of Rampage AoE Fun!

Ticking Ebon Detonator A bad Renataki's sould charm reincarnation of 5.4 patch. (it does start with max stacks :/ )

* The "double dip" expression is blizzard's words about a huge haste rating giving us more attacks while an rppm trinket with agility proc is active for x seconds (Bad Juju)
** If the FE glyph remained at 40% then it would get a cd of 216x40%= 86.4seconds, so we would spam EM and FE glyph every 90 seconds, too overpowered i guess.

#112 Chillbro

Chillbro

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:51 PM

1. Yes, haste is devalued by the changes. Different builds will probably differ on whether mastery or haste is better though.

2. Yeah haven't really looked into how I'll be syncing CD's, and it doesn't help each level of AoC (warforged, upgraded, heroic) will give a different amount of CD reduction. Atm, it looks like BiS will be AoC and Haromm's, with PE as the top talent because it gains more from AoC than the othe talents. This can all change though, still a couple weeks until release.

#113 Pyrdon

Pyrdon

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 44 posts

Posted 11 September 2013 - 06:19 AM

I'm sorry I haven't updated the guide yet, but I'm working on a lot of different things right now (for e.g. my bachelor thesis). I will try to get the update done as soon as possible, but until then I recommend - as always - the guides over at Totemspot. Thanks for your understanding.

#114 Therya

Therya

    Fudge Muffin Addict

  • Moderators
  • 332 posts
  • LocationNorway

Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:08 PM

Mod bump




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users