Jump to content


Photo

Warlock Simple Questions Thread: Mists Edition


  • Please log in to reply
168 replies to this topic

#41 wobb

wobb

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 04:45 PM

Not sure if I should ask this here or in the simulcraft thread.

I read in Icy Veins that the stat priority of affliction is int > mast > haste > hit (to 15) > crit.

Affliction Warlock DPS Statistics Priority and Reforging (WoW MoP 5.0.5) - Icy Veins

I was always under the impression that it was int > hit (to 15) > mast > haste > crit.
If anyone could enlighten me, please!

Thanks.


The simcraft results use 15% hit and scale downwards. It has a lower value the closer you are to cap, so it has a lower value on the base sim. That being said even with the lower dps/point of hit it has the added value of not adding a randomness to your rotation. @T14 heroic the weights are int>mastery>hit(15)>haste and as you will rarely be choosing between hit/mastery the weights don't really matter as we don't have any choices. You will always reforge out of crit first, then haste, favoring mastery then hit.

As per usual I would suggest d-loading simc and running your own sims with your current toon to get your personal weights and determine where you need to reforge.

#42 Zakalwe

Zakalwe

    The Chairmaker

  • Members
  • 1,466 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:30 PM

It has a lower value the closer you are to cap, so it has a lower value on the base sim.

This is false.

#43 overlappedio

overlappedio

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:38 AM

Anyone have any strats for each boss as a Warlock? For example which spec is the best, saving CD's etc...

#44 Miasmah

Miasmah

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:04 AM

Greeting fellow warlocks.

I have a few questions regarding affliction warlocks in MOP

1-Does one need to refresh dots after casting Haunt Debuff and/or Curse of Elements or do the dots dynamically take into account the dps increase from the haunt debuff and COE?

2-Is there any change in our channelled spell mechanics? i.e do we have to constantly monitor channelling ticks to decide when to stop channelling and refresh dots or cast other spells?

3-During a normal pull the rotation should be: COE, Haunt, Soul Burn + SoulSwap, Malefic Grasp. This will leave you with 2 shards. After a few seconds, you will need to refresh your Haunt which leaves you with just one soul shard. Assuming no nightfall procs, is it better to refresh the dots manually and save the last remaining shard for reapplying haunt for the third time, or is it better to Soul Burn + Soul Swap again and pray for a nightfall (and run the risk of not having haunt up)

4-Reg. Kiljaeden's cunning's passive effect during movement intensive fights: is it better to cast Malefic Grasp and move or is it better to spam fel flame and move? if the former is true, then is there any point in using fel flame at all (to add 6 seconds to dots for example?)

5-Considering epidemic talent, is it 100% essential to clip dots just when they reach half their uptime or is this not a significant dps gain and it is totally fine to refresh dots at any time as long as they have reached half their uptime?

#45 terophile

terophile

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:54 AM

With Windsong seeming to not proc for Affliction(save for a Haunt or two), is it worth it to go with Power Torrent until we get a weapon that is worth putting Jade Spirit on?

From a beta thread(can dig up original post if required): 'Windsong: 1PPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing, with a 1-second cooldown.'

#46 nehcnhoj

nehcnhoj

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 19 posts

Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:50 PM

The simcraft results use 15% hit and scale downwards. It has a lower value the closer you are to cap, so it has a lower value on the base sim. That being said even with the lower dps/point of hit it has the added value of not adding a randomness to your rotation. @T14 heroic the weights are int>mastery>hit(15)>haste and as you will rarely be choosing between hit/mastery the weights don't really matter as we don't have any choices. You will always reforge out of crit first, then haste, favoring mastery then hit.

As per usual I would suggest d-loading simc and running your own sims with your current toon to get your personal weights and determine where you need to reforge.


Sorry, I should have stated that I verified this using my own simcraft profile too. My profile was also not hit-capped when I weighted the stats. I am just seeking if someone has a deeper understanding of why this is the case in terms of our spells / rotations. Currently with some upgraded gear at ilvl466, my stat weights are Mastery => Haste >> Hit >> Crit. Which is terribly different to the other specs where hit is far and away the must-cap stat before looking at others.

Is it because when Affliction misses a spell most of the time we are only losing a global, whereas other specs are sacrificing the entire cast-time?

Also the value of Hit increases all the way until the last point before you hit the cap from my experience.

With Windsong seeming to not proc for Affliction(save for a Haunt or two), is it worth it to go with Power Torrent until we get a weapon that is worth putting Jade Spirit on?

From a beta thread(can dig up original post if required): 'Windsong: 1PPM on melee damage, or non-periodic spell damage/healing, with a 1-second cooldown.'


This is really interesting, I've looked at a couple of logs and have not seen even one windsong proc, a couple of the top logs for warlocks have them using power torrent too. Seems there is confirmation found here : Windsong not working? - Forums - World of Warcraft

Thanks for the heads up!

#47 ludey

ludey

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 04:14 PM

Are there still haste thresholds / plateaus? Or have new mechanics made them a thing of the past? If there are still thresholds - what are some good values to shoot for?

#48 Sweetz

Sweetz

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 05 October 2012 - 01:05 PM

so no useful how-to-spec topic for warlocks? why any other class got it?


All our talents are pretty worthless. It depends entirely on the fight, and even then, it doesn't really make a difference. Depending on what you're doing, I recommend going Archimonde's Vengeance and Sacrifice, but the other talents are of very little importance. I do like Dark Bargain, but dpswise it means nothing.


I have a tough question;
Elegon - Energy Charge
How do you handle them, as what spec?

(I am raiding 10 man, so I am in charge of one alone, two if I get better at it >.<)

#49 Balzakius

Balzakius

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 11 posts

Posted 05 October 2012 - 02:41 PM

I have a tough question;
Elegon - Energy Charge
How do you handle them, as what spec?


You want to keep your DoTs up on Elegon during the phase, not only for the DPS, but also to generate shards. On the first ball, I just apply Corruption and Agony and then channel Malefic Grasp and it kills it (I don't want to waste a shard a shard on it).

Once the first is dead, refresh your DoTs on the boss and if you are good on shards, you can even throw a Haunt at it.

For the second, I use SB:SS to apply all 3 DoTs and then channel MG. Then back to the boss. Elegon takes higher damage now and for our group Dark Soul is off CD from the start of the fight. So, pop that and DPS the boss as much as possible.

Kill the 3rd just like the 2nd, and then back to the boss. If you're having trouble, you can toss a Haunt at the orb as well.

We don't attempt a 4th kill on the orbs since we probably won't get it, and instead just DPS the boss as much as possible.

We haven't killed him yet (22%) and my DPS stays pretty close to 78K. I'm thinking I should be a little higher so take my strat on them with a grain of salt.

#50 Elmi

Elmi

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 20 posts

Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:40 PM

We did 7 sparks on the 1st and 5 on the 2nd transition.

What I did was: SB:SS > Haunt > MGMGMG > reset stacks & buffs on boss > drain boss to at least 3 shards > repeat
DS & Pot on the 4th and BL on the 5th on the first transition and DS on the 3rd spark on the second transition.

I was constantly 1st on the sparks and I will do so again because like that, the meelee and the other ranged can stay longer on the boss (I can kill the 1st two sparks almost alone depending on crit luck). They would lose more damage from switching as I do.

#51 Laraon

Laraon

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:48 PM

Hey guys, I've been a lurker off and on for a while. Pandaria is the first time I've not been able to find out the information I need elsewhere. Plus this is my first time actually playing a warlock as my main.

So I'm starting to get comfortable with affliction, I'm wildly fluctuating with my dps because of wasting shards too often for refreshing dots. The root cause of this I've determined to be not understanding how procs and dots relate to each other.

To start with I'd like to confirm something. When I cast a dot, say corruption, that corruption spell is modified by all of the buffs that I currently have on me. So if I have Dark Soul: Misery + Blood Lust and have an 89% haste then my corruption will have an 89% haste for the duration of the corruption spell, correct?

Then let's say that both Dark Soul: Misery and Blood Lust expire with corruption having half its duration remaining (Thus getting the full benefit from Pandemic). If I recast corruption do I now gain a new corruption with normal haste lasting for 1.5x the duration of a normal corruption?

I know I have more questions but I think I can refine them better if I get the right information on this.

Thanks!

#52 Tragik

Tragik

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 5 posts

Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:59 PM

What is the haste value needed before and after buffs to get an extra tick on Immolate?

#53 impossible

impossible

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:18 PM

Does expertise grant spell hit?

I have googled this and apparently the answer appears yes. I tested this in-game with my engineering dragonling, I added an expertise cogwheel and I noticed no change on my character stat screen on my spell hit value.

#54 impossible

impossible

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:46 PM

It appears expertise is now granting hit, and it is showing increased odds on character screen. It didn't do this last night though.

#55 Nephrenka

Nephrenka

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:53 AM

What is the haste value needed before and after buffs to get an extra tick on Immolate?


Immolate gains an extra tick at the following Haste thresholds: 10.00%, 4250 Haste; 30%, 12750; 50%; and, 70%.

To start with I'd like to confirm something. When I cast a dot, say corruption, that corruption spell is modified by all of the buffs that I currently have on me. So if I have Dark Soul: Misery + Blood Lust and have an 89% haste then my corruption will have an 89% haste for the duration of the corruption spell, correct?

Then let's say that both Dark Soul: Misery and Blood Lust expire with corruption having half its duration remaining (Thus getting the full benefit from Pandemic). If I recast corruption do I now gain a new corruption with normal haste lasting for 1.5x the duration of a normal corruption?


AFAIK, Haste functions the same way Mastery does now; the % contribution updating dynamically, rather then being based on the amount when the cast is made as it did in Cataclysm.

Does expertise grant spell hit?

I have googled this and apparently the answer appears yes. I tested this in-game with my engineering dragonling, I added an expertise cogwheel and I noticed no change on my character stat screen on my spell hit value.


Expertise + Hit = Spell Hit

#56 Nephrenka

Nephrenka

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:59 AM

This is really interesting, I've looked at a couple of logs and have not seen even one windsong proc, a couple of the top logs for warlocks have them using power torrent too. Seems there is confirmation found here : Windsong not working? - Forums - World of Warcraft

Thanks for the heads up!


Windsong is not working properly for casters at the moment. In comparison, Power Torrent had approximately 25% uptime during the majority of encounters in MSV that I did this week.

#57 Keldion

Keldion

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 58 posts

Posted 08 October 2012 - 02:10 AM

Immolate gains an extra tick at the following Haste thresholds: 10.00%, 4250 Haste; 30%, 12750; 50%; and, 70%.


This is only half correct; rounding behaviors affect the actual effective thresholds. Check the spreadsheet link in my signature.

#58 Tizid

Tizid

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 08 October 2012 - 01:33 PM

AFAIK, Haste functions the same way Mastery does now; the % contribution updating dynamically, rather then being based on the amount when the cast is made as it did in Cataclysm.


So this is true?

#59 Syrophenikan

Syrophenikan

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 23 posts

Posted 08 October 2012 - 03:10 PM

Greeting fellow warlocks.

I have a few questions regarding affliction warlocks in MOP

1-Does one need to refresh dots after casting Haunt Debuff and/or Curse of Elements or do the dots dynamically take into account the dps increase from the haunt debuff and COE?

2-Is there any change in our channelled spell mechanics? i.e do we have to constantly monitor channelling ticks to decide when to stop channelling and refresh dots or cast other spells?

3-During a normal pull the rotation should be: COE, Haunt, Soul Burn + SoulSwap, Malefic Grasp. This will leave you with 2 shards. After a few seconds, you will need to refresh your Haunt which leaves you with just one soul shard. Assuming no nightfall procs, is it better to refresh the dots manually and save the last remaining shard for reapplying haunt for the third time, or is it better to Soul Burn + Soul Swap again and pray for a nightfall (and run the risk of not having haunt up)

4-Reg. Kiljaeden's cunning's passive effect during movement intensive fights: is it better to cast Malefic Grasp and move or is it better to spam fel flame and move? if the former is true, then is there any point in using fel flame at all (to add 6 seconds to dots for example?)

5-Considering epidemic talent, is it 100% essential to clip dots just when they reach half their uptime or is this not a significant dps gain and it is totally fine to refresh dots at any time as long as they have reached half their uptime?


1) I had the same question and decided to test this last night on the target dummy with Skada. I would cast one DOT and let it last until it exprired then recorded it's damage. Did this about 20 times to get a rough average damage number. I then did it again but cast Haunt after the DOT cast, also 20 times. And the same with haunt first. I found that the Haunt damage bonus applies to the DOTs regardless when the DOT is cast, however, you can get DOT ticks without the bonus. So in conclusion, the haunt damage bonus applies to all damage when haunt is applied, but you still want the bonus applied to all ticks, therefore using SB:SS is ideal so you get the most damage ticks under the buff before it expires.

2) Yes since cancelling a channel right before a tick can still be a DPS loss. Granted, it's not much of a problem since the level 90 spell gets rid of the problem is DOT clipping, so in most cases you can wait until a channel is finished before reapplying.

3) In my experience, it depends on the fights. Since I have a trinket with a chance to increase SP significantly, I save my soul shards for when it procs to cast haunt, DS:M, and SS:SB my DOTs to gain the SP/haste increase to do a ton of damage.

4) Not sure, and this is something that can be calculated with DPET. Calculate MG with a 50% increased duration to get the DPET and then the DEPT for FF.

5) The DPET for DOTs take in to account the full duration of the spell. If you constantly refresh a DOT slightly under the 50% mark, you're still not getting DPS from the last half. I still let DOTs run their full duration so I can get more MG spam in, and refresh early when I get a short term buff or if I know I'll need to move and can't refresh later.

Hey guys, I've been a lurker off and on for a while. Pandaria is the first time I've not been able to find out the information I need elsewhere. Plus this is my first time actually playing a warlock as my main.

So I'm starting to get comfortable with affliction, I'm wildly fluctuating with my dps because of wasting shards too often for refreshing dots. The root cause of this I've determined to be not understanding how procs and dots relate to each other.

To start with I'd like to confirm something. When I cast a dot, say corruption, that corruption spell is modified by all of the buffs that I currently have on me. So if I have Dark Soul: Misery + Blood Lust and have an 89% haste then my corruption will have an 89% haste for the duration of the corruption spell, correct?

Then let's say that both Dark Soul: Misery and Blood Lust expire with corruption having half its duration remaining (Thus getting the full benefit from Pandemic). If I recast corruption do I now gain a new corruption with normal haste lasting for 1.5x the duration of a normal corruption?

I know I have more questions but I think I can refine them better if I get the right information on this.

Thanks!


DOTs when cast will take your haste/crit/mastery/sp values at the time they are cast. So if your buff runs out during the DOT duration and you recast, the new cast will change the damage modifiers to what you currently have. So you want to let the DOT run it's full duration before reapplying if your buffs ran out.

Does expertise grant spell hit?

I have googled this and apparently the answer appears yes. I tested this in-game with my engineering dragonling, I added an expertise cogwheel and I noticed no change on my character stat screen on my spell hit value.


Yes, it does grant spell hit, although the paper doll won't show additional hit rating number, only changes the percentage. It is a 1-to-1 distribution, so one expertise is good for one spell hit. It allows you to reforge to expertise even if a piece of gear has hit on it.

#60 turturin

turturin

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 267 posts

Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:16 PM

So this is true?


No, its not true.

Spells update dynamically as debuffs on the target change.

Buffs on you are applied to spells at cast time and do not re-calc until refresh.

This is very easy to test. Put a Dot on a training dummy, then cast dark soul. The dot will not tick faster.




2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users