Jump to content


Photo

5.0.4 DK Review - Death in the Mists


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
24 replies to this topic

#1 Otou

Otou

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 143 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 06:36 AM

Quick Review of what's changing in 5.0.4, and what decisions you'll want to make with each specialization.
(fourms aren't using beta tooltips, so make sure you check the wowhead link rather than mouseover)

What's New?

  • Runic Focus no longer exists. All spell criticals are doubled by default. All classes receive spell hit from expertise at a 1:1 ratio. You require 7.5% hit to cap hit vs bosses, 7.5% exp to cap dodge vs bosses, and 15% spell hit to cap spells vs bosses. Capping hit and expertise will cap spell hit.
  • The 1 second GCD is baseline. It's not tied to Unholy Presence anymore, so all 3 specs receive it.
  • Frost Presence no longer increases damage done. Instead it increases RP generation by 20%. It also has a utility effect similar to Unholy Presence run speed. It reduces the duration of CC by 20%.
  • All specs receive a specific Improved Presence passive. This means you'll always want to match your spec and presence. Improved Blood Presence, Improved Frost Presence, Improved Unholy Presence
  • Anti-Magic Shell generates runic power for all specs again. (rejoice!)
  • Necrotic Strike costs a Death Rune. (end the rejoicing)
  • Death Strike can't be parried. So whether your opponent is a player or a raid boss, all of their parry chance is ignored.
  • The Blood Tap ability is gone, and a new talent option has taken it's name.
  • Death Pact is on the new talent grid.
  • Raise Dead is a 2 minute cool down, down from 3 minutes. Unholy no longer receives additional cool down reduction.
  • Mind Freeze (and most melee interrupts) is on a 15 second cooldown with a 4 second school lock out. It also no longer has a runic power cost.
  • On a Pale Horse is passively granted to all DKs.
  • Pestilence no longer has a damage penalty, diseases from Pestilence always deal 100% of normal damage. Ebon Plaguebringer buffs Unholy diseases by 60% as compensation.
  • Horn of Winter is now the 10% AP buff.
  • Unholy Aura is provided passively by both Frost and Unholy, as the new +10% melee haste buff.
  • Scarlet Fever now triggers Weakened Blows, which provides the same -10% damage de-buff.
  • Brittle Bones and Ebon Plaguebringer, both cause the +4% physcial damage de-buff. Unholy no longer provides the magic damage de-buff.


New Abilities

  • Control Undead - Level 67 ability that functions the same as a Warlock's Enslave demon. The controlled undead replaces your normal ghoul, and can't gain Shadow Infusion Stacks, so it's usually not worthwhile for Unholy.
  • Soul Reaper - Level 87 ability, that changes cost based on your spec. Compared to our normal strike damage, Soul Reaper's explosion is a very powerful 35% execute. Damage is equal to 50k+ 100% of attack power, and it benefits from Unholy mastery. It also grants 50% Haste when an enemy dies with the de-buff active.
  • Wild Mushroom: Plague - Our dps Symbiosis ability, spams diseases on everything withing 10 yards of the mushroom for 30 seconds. One of the few Symbiosis abilities that provide a potential dps increase, so you'll want a Druid friend. We give Druids some pretty awesome abilities, so it shouldn't be hard to get.
  • Might of Ursoc - Our Blood Symbiosis ability. 20 seconds of +15% hp every 3 minutes. Solid addition to our cool down arsenal. Symbiosis no longer gives the receiving tank a cooldown. All DKs get the mushroom.


Blood

  • Scent of Blood now procs from every melee swing of a 3.6 speed weapon, meaning every melee attack gives 10 runic power. It also provides a stacking Scent of Blood buff, which increases the healing/shielding of Death Strike by 20% per stack (this is a replacement for the Cata Improved Death Strike talent).
  • Heart Strike now hits up to 4 targets.
  • Scarlet Fever allows Blood Boil to refresh (not apply) the diseases on any target it hits. Outbreak is no longer 30 seconds for Blood, so this is our replacement disease up-keep.
  • Crimson Scourge now includes Death and Decay.
  • Vengeance has changed. In simple terms, the stamina cap was removed.


Frost

  • Might of the Frozen Wastest increases increases Obliterate damage by 40%. This means 2H Frost wants to use Killing Machine procs on Obliterate, and Obliterate as much as possible.
  • Threat of Thassarian increases Frost Strike damage by 40%. This means DW Frost wants to use Killing Machine procs on Frost Strike, and to Frost Strike as much as possible. Also changes the DW rotation to focus on mastery, and avoid using Obliterate. Instead it uses Frost/Death Runes on Howling Blast, and uses DnD/Obliterate to prevent both Unholy Runes from activating. (Runic Empowerment is required to game F/D runes.)
  • The Howling Blast glyph is gone, but Howling Blast now applies Frost Fever passively.

Unholy

  • Blood Boil is now on Reaping.
  • Once Soul Reaper is learned, your #1 priority is to detonate as many Soul Reapers as possible. Soul Reaper is Unholy's hardest hitting attack by a large margin.




Performance Talents

The talent grid is now 6 rows 3 columns, with a variety of utility choices. Only Tier 1 and 5 have a direct effect on damage.


Tier 1 - Diseases

The choices in this Tier are: Roiling Blood, Plague Leech, and Unholy Blight. In that same order they are: AoE, Single Target, and Cleave. (Unholy With Blood Tap/Unholy Blight is the exception)



  • Roiling Blood - Makes your Blood Boil also cast pestilence.


    • It saves you a Blood Rune and a gcd in AoE situations. Any time there is extended AoE, this is your talent of choice.
    Spoiler


  • Plague Leech - Eats your diseases, and turns an empty Rune into a Death Rune.


    • You cast Plague Leech right before you need to re-apply diseases. For Blood, this means you only cast Plague Leech when you have Outbreak ready to re-apply diseases. For Frost, you cast Plague Leech whenever your Blood Plague is about to expire (2H will want to have a Rime proc ready to re-apply FF). Unholy is the same as Blood, in that it only Plague Leeches when Outbreak is available to re-apply diseases.
    Spoiler

  • Unholy Blight - Applies Diseases to everything within 10 yards, for 10 seconds.


    • Unholy Blight shines in situations where there aren't enough targets to justify Roiling Blood, or you need to constantly re-apply diseases, but the target isn't in range for Pestilence. It also has a single target advantage for Unholy with Blood Tap, since it will allow you to improve disease up time (more on this in Blood Tap).


Tier 5 - Rune Regeneration

The choices in this tier are: Blood Tap, Runic Empowerment, and Runic Corruption. They all speed up your rune regeneration rate, when casting Death Coil, Rune Strike, or Frost Strike.

Quick answer for, "What do I take?":

  • If you're Blood, you change the talent depending on the encounter. RE produces the most DS per min when spamming, RC is the most consistent form of regen, BT is good for encounters with predictable burst.
  • If you're Frost, take Runic Empowerment. Clear dps gain no matter what you're doing. For DW, you will be using RE to game Death/Frost Runes. Then you'll use those D/F runes to spam Howling Blast.
  • If you're Unholy, you can take any option and do similar single target dps (less than 2% difference between talents). However, BT will pull ahead on any encounters with an extended execute. RC is the easiest to work with, RE is better at aoe, BT allows you to bank death runes.



  • Blood Tap - Allows you to store regeneration procs as Blood Charges, and activate undesirable runes as Death Runes.


    • As Blood, Blood Tap allows you to store up regeneration procs, and unload them on Death Strikes at key points. Blood Tap shines on encounters where the damage is predictable, and you can tell exactly when it will happen. Something like the impale on Madness is a good example of this. You know exactly when you're going to get hit for massive damage, and can unload appropriately. The way to use Blood Tap, is to constantly sit between 6-12 Blood Charges. Whenever you hit 11-12 charges, you cast Blood Tap to ensure you don't cap them (12 is the cap). Each Blood Tap requires 5 charges to cast, so you'll need at least 10 charges to unload a full Death Strike. Blood Tap does require fully depleted runes to work, like RE. So you'll have to unload your active Death Strikes, before using Blood Tap.


    • If you choose Blood Tap as Unholy, your focus will be turning Blood/Frost Runes into Death for more Scourge Strikes. Make sure you do not waste resources while converting Blood/Frost Runes though. You should never go beyond the Blood Charge cap, have 2 active Runes, or more than 90 Runic Power. Blood Tap's main advantage would be the ability to bank Blood charges for key points of the fight. Keep in mind that using Blood Tap means you'll be forsaking Festering Strikes, that RC/RE would have. Since you're directly converting Frost/Blood Runes into Death, you're skipping FeS cycles. As a result of this, you'll want Unholy Blight to assist in disease up-keep. For Mists, it will also help ensure you can Soul Reaper on cool down. This is done by keeping a 5 stack of Blood Charges in reserve, as well as adding more wild card Death Runes into play. Soul Reaper is Unholy's hardest hitting ability, so keeping it up is a significant dps increase during the execute phase.

    Spoiler

  • Runic Empowerment - 45% chance to activate a random depleted rune.


    • As Blood RE produces the most Death Strikes per minute. However, this is only relevant if the encounter calls for you to spam Death Strike on cool down. For something like Yor'sahj, where there is unavoidable damage being spammed, RE is the best option. RE falls short when you're not using Death Strike on cooldown, and need to time your DS usage. This is because potential procs are wasted, since you can't activate a rune that isn't empty. Blood RE works the same as Cata, where you game Frost/Unholy Runes for procs.
    • If you're playing 2H Frost, you want Runic Empowerment because it generates the most runes. As 2H frost, all of your runes will be used for Obliterate on single target, so you don't really care which slot RE activates.
    • If you're playing DW Frost, you still want RE. The use is slightly different though. The optimal rotation for DW Frost is spamming Howling Blast, and only using Obliterate to prevent both Unholy Runes from activating. This means you'll be using RE to game Death/Frost Runes.
    • If you choose RE as Unholy, your focus will be gaming Death/Unholy runes for more Scourge Strikes. RE also has the AoE damage advantage, thanks to Blood Boil being added to Reaping. In the same method that Frost games Death/Frost Runes to spam Howling Blast, Unholy can game Death Runes to spam Blood Boil.

  • Runic Corruption - 45% chance to double rune regeneration speed for (Rune Speed * 0.3) seconds.


    • As Blood, Runic Corruption is the talent that allows for the most consistent Death Strike interval. It also allows you to sit on active F/U runes, without wasting resources. All RC does, is speed up your basic rune regeneration rate. As long as you never have both runes in the active state, you're never wasting a RC proc. RC is the best talent for constantly keeping a Death Strike available, without wasting resources.
    • For Unholy, RC will follow the same pattern it did in Cata, and is the simplest to work with. It speeds up the basic rune cycle, and ensure that diseases will not fall off before Outbreak is available.





Utility and Survival Talents


Tier 2, 3, 4, and 6 are utility and survival talents. They do not have a direct effect on performance, and their usefulness changes based on the encounter.


Tier 2 - Survival

The choices in this tier are Lichborne, Anti-Magic Zone, and Purgatory. As a general rule, dps will want to stay away from Lichborne healing, since spending Death Coils on healing is a dps loss. However, that doesn't mean Lichborne is useless as a dps.


  • Lichborne - Become Undead for 10 seconds, every 2 minutes.


    • This is the exact same talent it was in Cataclysm. When Lichborne is active, you're considered undead. Which means Death Coils from yourself or other DKs can now heal you. This is a solid option for Blood, especially with the new no cap Vengeance. Remember, you'll want Blood Tap to take full advantage of Death Coil healing. Blood Tap is the only talent that allows you to gain rune regen during Death Coil heals.
    • Frost/Unholy on the other hand, doesn't want to waste runic power on healing. The advantage it "does" offer dps in Mists, is the ability to break/immune Fear effects. If you haven't heard yet, the last boss of T14 is the Sha of Fear. It's pretty easy to guess what he and his friends like to cast. On relevant encounters, Lichborne will allow you to break fear effects. This means you'll have higher uptime on the boss, and do more damage.

  • Anti-Magic Zone - Drops a bubble on a targeted location, that reduces the magic damage taken by 75%


    • This is the same spell as Cata, with a new targeting feature added. Instead of always being dropped on top of your character, it gets a targeting reticule like DnD. This allows you to place AMZ anywhere within 30 yards. AMZ is a great talent for any fight with signficant bursts of magic damage, but falls short when the magic damage is periodic/non-existent.

    Spoiler

  • Purgatory - Protects you from a killing blow, once every 3 minutes. Overkill damage is saved as a necrotic strike style healing de-buff.


    • This new ability provides a passive method of death prevention. It saves you from one attack every 3 minutes, basically a watered down Cheat Death. It's a good fallback talent for all specs. When you can't use Lichborne or AMZ, spec Purgatory.

    Spoiler

Tier 3 - Mobility Control

The choices in this tier are: Death's Advance, Chilblains, and Asphyxiate. DA is speed up, Chilblains is slow down, Asphyxiate is stop. DA is the favorite, since you can typically expect an encounter to require movement.


  • Death's Advance - Passively increases movement speed by a multiplicative 10%, and actively by 30%. Also stops slow effects like in Cata.


    • It's a great talent for any fight you have to move. The faster you run, the faster you get to the destination. The faster you get to the destination, the faster you can start attacking again.

    Spoiler

  • Chilblains - Frost Fever causes a 50% movement speed slow, and Chains of Ice roots for 3 seconds.


    • DKs still have one of the best kiting toolkits, thanks to Howling Blast. When the raid needs slows on all the mobs, the Frost DK is the man for the job. Chilblains functions exactly the same as Cata, except you can now choose it regardless of spec.

  • Asphyxiate - Repalces Strangulate with a 5 second stun/silence. Also, halves the original cooldown, and removes the Blood Rune cost.


    • This is the Hand of Doom talent from Blood, that now stuns and removes the resource cost on Strangulate. Asphyxiate will shine on interrupt/stun heavy encounters, where movement and kiting aren't a significant issue. It can save you when someone screws up interrupts (it happened plenty on Nefarian and Cho'gall).

Tier 4 - Self Healing

The choices are: Death Pact, Death Siphon, and Conversion. The general winner here is Death Pact. Since Siphon and Conversion cost Death Runes/Runic Power, they result in a dps/performance loss normally. However, there are exceptions.


  • Death Pact - Heals you for 50% of you maximum health, in exchange for 50% of your ghoul / gargoyle's health.


    • It's received a nice buff back to 50%, doesn't kill your minions, and is now off the gcd. It's a large chuck of burst healing for any spec, and comes at no cost. Your ghoul's cool down now perfectly matches Death Pact, so even Frost/Blood should have no problem using it. As a reminder, you can also Death Pact Army ghouls.

  • Death Siphon - Deals Shadowfrost damage, and heals the DK for an equal amount. Costs a Death Rune, and scales with Frost/Unholy mastery.


    • In most situations, giving up a Death Rune will be a dps loss compared to using your normal strike. However, at least for Unholy/Blood, Death Siphon can be a strong ranged attack. It scales with attack power better than Icy Touch. So if the boss is in a flight phase, or constantly out of range, Death Siphon can be a dps increase.
    • For Blood, even with high level of Vengeance, Siphon won't compete with Death Strike + Blood Shield (they scale with damage taken). However, when there are buffs/de-buffs that increase the damage players do, the healing value of Death Siphon can increase dramatically. Pay close attention to encounter mechanics, and react accordingly.

  • Conversion - Converts 10 runic power into 3% health per second. No cooldown, no duration limit. Disables Frost Presence's +20% runic power, and Scent of Blood's 10 runic power per melee swing.


    • In most situations, this one is a dps/performance loss. It's potential healing is amazing, but it's cost is too great. Using Conversion will drain you of all your runic power, leaving you with no Tier 5 rune regen effects. The exception to this would be soaking magic damage with AMS, but even that is likely to be a dps loss (but a possible survival gain). The only time Conversion won't be a dps loss, is when you're overloaded with runic power. It's not unheard of for an encounter mechanic to flood players with resources, so you'll have to watch for it.

Tier 6- Flavored Utility


This tier has: Gorefiend's Grasp, Remorseless Winter, and Desecrated Ground. If there is a standby talent here, it'd be Remorseless Winter, since you can at least expect to stun/slow trash. The talents in this tier are very situational, and you'll have to find ways to use them in each encounter.


  • Gorefiend's Grasp - AoE Death Grip.


    • Just like it sounds, it death grips all enemies, within 20 yards of the central target. The central target can be friendly or hostile. So you can center it on any character within 30yards of you. This does means you can GG someone 30 yards ahead of you, and have them grip everything within 20 yards of their character (which is up to 50 yards away from you).

    Spoiler

  • Remorseless Winter - Applies a stacking slow on all enemies within 8 yards. If they aren't smart enough to notice your snow globe effect within 5 seconds, they are rewarded with a 6 second stun.


    • RW is pretty a pretty good defensive assist on trash, since a stunned mob deals no damage. RW can also help with kiting mobs that get too close.

  • Desecrated Ground - PvP trinket that doesn't break snare/roots. If you stay in the same area, 10 second duration.


    • This one is a bit better than it seems. Like mentioned under Lichborne, there will be several encounters with fear mechanics, and a handful of stuns. The faster you can break out of CC, the faster you can get back to doing your job.

    Spoiler





Glyphs

Most major glyphs do not have a direct impact on performance. However, there are a few you can pull an increase out of.

Damage

  • Anti-Magic Shell - Increases the damage absorption on AMS from 75% to 100% of magic damage. Since you're absorbing more damage, each magic attack will give you more runic power per hit.
  • Pestilence - Increases the range of pestilence by 5 yards. Same as Cata. If there is anything outside of the normal 10 yard range, this glyph is free damage.
  • Dark Succor - If you manage to receive a killing blow (unlikely), you get a free Death Strike. Since the Death Strike has no rune cost, it's free damage.
  • Dark Simulacrum - Reduces the cooldown of dark sim by 30 seconds, and increases the duration to 12 seconds. If you can find an encounter with copyable damage, glyphing dark sim is a dps increase.


Survival

  • Icebound Fortitude - Reduces the cooldown and duration of your IBF. If theres an encounter with multiple bursts of damage, this could help keep you alive
  • Vampiric Blood - Same as Cata. Blood can use if the health increase on Vampiric Blood is unnecessary.
  • Death Coil - Applies an absorb, equal to Death Coil's normal damage, on a friendly target. The shield's size will be small for dps, since it's equal to Death Coil's damage. It can't be used on yourself, and must be used on another friendly target.
  • Unholy Frenzy - Removes the DoT from Unholy Frenzy. If there is an encounter, where taking 20% of your health over 30 seconds is dangerous, this is your new friend. Keep in mind that Fallen Crusader will outheal Frenzy in normal situations, and that Frenzy damage isn't allowed to kill players.

For minor glyphs, Tranquil Grip removes the taunt effect from Death Grip, and Army of the Dead removes the taunt from Army. Situational, but they could let you and your Ghouls live longer. Path of Frost still prevents fall damage, Resilient Grip still resets ineffective Death Grips, Death's Embrace still refunds runic on effective Ghoul heals.



#2 huntcaudata

huntcaudata

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 137 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 03:49 PM

I think there is a strong enough consensus on Death's Advance and Death Pact that they should at least be mentioned in this treatment of talents. While technically situational, all DKs should take these two talents 90%+ of the time. Death's Advance is a DPS increase on any fight that requires movement, and Death Pact is a free heal, whereas the other options are (as mentioned already), a DPS loss.

#3 Otou

Otou

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 143 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 08:31 PM

I think there is a strong enough consensus on Death's Advance and Death Pact that they should at least be mentioned in this treatment of talents. While technically situational, all DKs should take these two talents 90%+ of the time. Death's Advance is a DPS increase on any fight that requires movement, and Death Pact is a free heal, whereas the other options are (as mentioned already), a DPS loss.


Decided to add the rest of the talents. Hopefully it's clear that utility options need to change based on the encounter.

#4 slant

slant

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 334 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:21 PM

According to simulation, Unholy should choose Blood Tap. It's a 2% total DPS increase over Runic Corruption, likely because it allows for additional Soul Reaper casts. 2% is not an insignificant advantage.

Blood Tap: 109.3%
Runic Empowerment: 108.1%
Runic Corruption: 107.3%
No L75 talent: 100.00%

You might want to mention the simple Blood Tap macro as well.

#5 Otou

Otou

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 143 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 10:51 PM

According to simulation, Unholy should choose Blood Tap. It's a 2% total DPS increase over Runic Corruption, likely because it allows for additional Soul Reaper casts. 2% is not an insignificant advantage.

Blood Tap: 109.3%
Runic Empowerment: 108.1%
Runic Corruption: 107.3%
No L75 talent: 100.00%

You might want to mention the simple Blood Tap macro as well.


No Soul Reaper until 87, until then the damage between all lv 75 options is practically equal. Blood Tap's value also depends on fight length, and how long the execute phase is. I'll update the post to better show the value of UB/BT with Soul Reaper.

Macroing Blood Tap is a dps loss though. It means that Blood Tap procs can be wasted on Death/Unholy Runes, instead of only being used on Blood/Frost.

#6 slant

slant

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 334 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 11:34 PM

The same test using the level 85 T13H profile shows Blood Tap ahead by 1.5%.

Note that the default action list in simcraft effectively does macro Blood Tap. Changing the Blood Tap action to only run when the player has 1 unholy and either 0 blood or 0 frost runes up is a small DPS loss. These results are just over the error margin of 0.2%, so it could go either way, but macroing clearly isn't a DPS loss.

The action line looks like this.
actions+=/blood_tap,if=talent.blood_tap.enabled&unholy=1&(blood=0|frost=0)

L85 T13H Profile
No L75 talent: 100%
Blood Tap (macroed): 109.1%
Runic Empowerment: 108.9%
Blood Tap (unmacroed, forced on Blood/Frost runes): 108.8%
Runic Corruption: 107.6%

#7 Tyvi

Tyvi

    Never, Mags. Never!

  • • Guide Author
  • 1,884 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 11:48 PM

Macroing Blood Tap is a dps loss though. It means that Blood Tap procs can be wasted on Death/Unholy Runes, instead of only being used on Blood/Frost.


I remember your Runes going back to their pre-Blood Tap type once you used up the Death Rune you got from it. Did that get reverted again?
I.e. a depleted Unholy or Death Rune would turn into a Death Rune through Blood Tap. Once you use that Rune it should go back to being an Unholy or Death Rune respectively.

That said, I am not a fan of macroing Blood Tap either but as long as Unholy doesn't get a proper cooldown like Pillar of Frost that could benefit from saving charges for it and then unloading it during the CD, this probably won't get changed either (and the spec that would benefit from this bcause it has PoF won't pick Blood Tap because it has Runic Empowerment).


On a different note, you could probably add Glyph of Outbreak as recommended for Blood if they spec Plague Leech and are not spell hit capped. Even if you play it safe (as much as you can play it safe with a reactive talent like PL for Blood anyway) and try to limit PL usage to once a minute at most, there is no guarantee your Outbreak will actually land. And while PL does not remove your Weakened Blows debuff, it can still run out on it's own if you are unlucky.

#8 slant

slant

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 334 posts

Posted 27 August 2012 - 11:53 PM

I just re-ran the sims at 10k iterations to minimize variance. The error margin is now 0.07%. Macroed Blood Tap remains the best choice, but ungamed Runic Empowerment is very close due to its greater efficiency. Blood Tap gamed for B/F is a clear loser, as is Runic Corruption.

Results are as follows.

L85 T13H Unholy Profile, 10k Iterations
No L75 talent: 100%
Blood Tap (macroed): 108.8%
Runic Empowerment: 108.6%
Runic Corruption: 107.4%
Blood Tap (unmacroed, forced on Blood/Frost runes): 106.9%

And of course this is pre-Soul Reaper. At 90 Blood Tap is even better.

#9 daemon9

daemon9

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 06:21 AM

Please excuse my ignorance for I am a bit new to the whole theorycrafting thing, but when you say

Might of the Frozen Wastest increases increases Obliterate damage by 40%. This means 2H Frost wants to use Killing Machine procs on Obliterate, and Obliterate as much as possible.
Threat of Thassarian increases Frost Strike damage by 50%. This means DW Frost wants to use Killing Machine procs on Frost Strike, and to Frost Strike as much as possible. Also changes the DW rotation to focus on mastery, and avoid using Obliterate. Instead it uses Frost/Death Runes on Howling Blast, and uses DnD/Obliterate to prevent both Unholy Runes from activating. (Runic Empowerment is required to game F/D runes.)


Are you basically saying DW Frost DK's now have to take on the Masterfrost play style while there's no real change to the current Frost play style if you're wielding a 2h? Also, regardless of which weapons you are using, Frost Presence is now the presence of choice, yes?

#10 Otou

Otou

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 143 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 07:09 AM

I remember your Runes going back to their pre-Blood Tap type once you used up the Death Rune you got from it. Did that get reverted again?
I.e. a depleted Unholy or Death Rune would turn into a Death Rune through Blood Tap. Once you use that Rune it should go back to being an Unholy or Death Rune respectively.


Yep that was fixed. If you Blood Tap a Death Rune from FeS, then use that Death Rune on Scourge Strike, it will be a Blood/Frost Rune when it refreshes.

I'll leave Glyphing Outbreak to the Blood specific guide. It's not a straight forward performance boost, and using it would be situational.

I just re-ran the sims at 10k iterations to minimize variance. The error margin is now 0.07%. Macroed Blood Tap remains the best choice, but ungamed Runic Empowerment is very close due to its greater efficiency. Blood Tap gamed for B/F is a clear loser, as is Runic Corruption.


That isn't enough to get gamed Blood Tap to work properly. It's a matter of saying "prioritize", Blood Tap on Blood/Frost runes, not "Only ever cast Blood Tap on B/F Runes". If you manage to waste resources, trying to force BT on B/F runes, then of course it will be a dps loss.

What Tyvi said also has me curious about how SimC has Blood Tap designed currently. Are they still using that behavior?

Also, all of those results still have RC, RE, and BT within less than 2% of each other. That is enough for rng and player skill to decide the outcome.

Are you basically saying DW Frost DK's now have to take on the Masterfrost play style while there's no real change to the current Frost play style if you're wielding a 2h? Also, regardless of which weapons you are using, Frost Presence is now the presence of choice, yes?

Yes. DW Frost will be spamming Howling Blast, and gaming Frost/Death Runes with RE in Mists. All Frost DKs will be in Frost presence to dps.

#11 slant

slant

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 334 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 01:48 PM

Either way, Blood Tap is clearly better for Unholy than Runic Corruption. As for the 2%, as I said, the error margin was 0.07%, so RNG has been factored out of the equation. Saying 2% isn't enough to matter is a odd position for an EJ post maintainer to take but of course that is your call.

#12 Taiyoken

Taiyoken

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 169 posts

Posted 28 August 2012 - 09:08 PM

Please excuse my ignorance for I am a bit new to the whole theorycrafting thing, but when you say



Are you basically saying DW Frost DK's now have to take on the Masterfrost play style while there's no real change to the current Frost play style if you're wielding a 2h? Also, regardless of which weapons you are using, Frost Presence is now the presence of choice, yes?


Except I don't even think you use HB as a filler anymore when you only have one rune and can't get a second to OB; rather you just sit on it and bank for an Obliterate.

#13 Otou

Otou

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 143 posts

Posted 30 August 2012 - 03:47 AM

Decided to add a castsequence macro for Plague Leech. All this really does, is reduce the number of different keys you press when leeching. You press it twice, and it will leech the first gcd, outbreak the second. You will still need a separate Outbreak button, as Plague Leech only works on targets with active diseases. You could also create a version with Plague Strike for Frost.

The following, is a simple castsequence macro for Plague Leech and Outbreak. It is not a replacement for Outbreak on your bars, as Plague Leech can only be cast on a target with diseases. It will not function when you need to apply diseases on a new target. The macro simply adds outbreak onto your Plague Leech key. This allows you to press it twice to absorb / re-apply diseases.

/castsequence reset=5 Plague Leech, Outbreak



Except I don't even think you use HB as a filler anymore when you only have one rune and can't get a second to OB; rather you just sit on it and bank for an Obliterate.

The "new" DW rotation is literally just spamming Howling Blast like normal AoE. Nothing complex or interesting about it.

You keep one Unholy Rune active to ensure all of your RE procs go to F/D Runes. Then you either Plague Strike for diseases, drop DnD, or Obliterate to prevent both Unholy Runes from activating.

#14 Taiyoken

Taiyoken

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 169 posts

Posted 30 August 2012 - 04:07 AM

I was referring to 2H, it seems I would lose a significant amount of DPS by using HB as a filler.

#15 Otou

Otou

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 143 posts

Posted 30 August 2012 - 01:12 PM

I was referring to 2H, it seems I would lose a significant amount of DPS by using HB as a filler.

Yeah, the only thing you use runes for (as 2H single target), is Obliterate and diseases

#16 jiushibujiangli

jiushibujiangli

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 04:42 PM

No Soul Reaper until 87, until then the damage between all lv 75 options is practically equal. Blood Tap's value also depends on fight length, and how long the execute phase is. I'll update the post to better show the value of UB/BT with Soul Reaper.

Macroing Blood Tap is a dps loss though. It means that Blood Tap procs can be wasted on Death/Unholy Runes, instead of only being used on Blood/Frost.


By now. If I am a 2H frost, I also need to choose the RE as my Tier 5?

#17 Jessamy

Jessamy

    Struck by Diax's Rake

  • Moderators
  • 4,801 posts

Posted 13 September 2012 - 05:04 PM

By now. If I am a 2H frost, I also need to choose the RE as my Tier 5?

There's a discussion about this question in the mechanics thread. (link) It seems that at level 85, with the t13 set bonus, Unholy and 2H Frost want RC, for more mastery.

#18 Otou

Otou

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 143 posts

Posted 23 September 2012 - 10:21 AM

After doing some AoE testing, I found out something interesting about the way Roiling Blood works.

According to the tool tip, you'd expect it to simply cast Blood Boil and Pestilence at the same time. Following this line of thought, every time you cast Blood Boil, Pestilence should cast on your target. When you want to refresh diseases on your main target, you simply tab to a different target to cast Pestilence on it. However, this isn't what the talent does.

When you use Blood Boil with Roiling Blood talented, it selects the closest enemy to your character with Frost Fever or Blood Plague. This means that if you're attempting to refresh diseases during AoE, you can't simply tab to a different target to refresh the primary target. You have to actually move your character closest to the target you want to Pestilence from.

I suspect that this is what many Unholy dps were seeing when using Roiling Blood to AoE, and reporting that it sometimes doesn't work. Blood wouldn't normally notice notice this thanks to Scarlet Fever, and Frost avoids Roiling Blood in most situations.

I'm not quite sure if this qualifies as a "Bug", but it could cause problems when AoE-ing mobs with abnormal hit boxes.

#19 Jessamy

Jessamy

    Struck by Diax's Rake

  • Moderators
  • 4,801 posts

Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:50 PM

Here is a list of heroic dungeon strength dps loot I made for myself.

1h axe|crescent of ichor|shado-pan monastery|agility
1h axe|inelava, spirit of inebriation|stormstout brewery|476
1h axe|dubious handaxe|temple of the jade serpent|
1h mace|gao's keg tapper|stormstout brewery|agility
1h sword|siege-captain's scimitar|siege of niuzao temple|agility
1h sword|ook's hozen slicer|stormstout brewery|
1h sword|the horseman's sinister slicer|hallow's end|agility
2h axe|the gleaming ravager|scarlet halls|
2h mace|goresoaked headreaper|scholomance|
2h mace|mograine's immaculate might|scarlet halls|
2h mace|warmace of taran zhu|shado-pan monastery|
2h sword|gravetouch greatsword|scholomance|
2h sword|lightbreaker greatsword|scarlet monastery|
2h polearm|ghostheart|mogu'shan palace|agility
back|cloak of failing will|temple of the jade serpent|
belt|binding of broken dreams|temple of the jade serpent|
boots|spike-soled stompers|shado-pan monastery|
boots|anchoring sabatons|siege of niuzao temple|
chest|hateshatter chestplate|shado-pan monastery|
chest|riverbed chestguard|temple of the jade serpent|
hands|dark blaze gauntlets|scholomance|
helm|meteoric greathelm|mogu'shan palace|
helm|sightfinder helm|siege of niuzao temple|
helm|the horseman's horrific hood|hallow's end|470
legs|pyretic legguards|scarlet halls|
neck|whirling dervish choker|mogu'shan palace|
neck|helios, durand's soul of purity|scarlet monastery|476
neck|cloudstrike pendant|shado-pan monastery|
ring|blade trap signet|mogu'shan palace|
ring|firefinger ring|scarlet monastery|
ring|band of the petrified pumpkin|hallow's end|470
shoulder|acid scarred spaulders|gate of the setting sun|
shoulder|serpentstrike shoulders|temple of the jade serpent|
trinket|coren's cold chromium coaster|brewfest event|470
trinket|lessons of the darkmaster|scholomance|
trinket|carbonic carbuncle|stormstout brewery|
wrist|commanding bracers|scarlet halls|
wrist|bracers of the fallen crusader|scarlet monastery|



#20 Gnomeoleon

Gnomeoleon

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:39 AM

Seems like there is something wrong with Soul Reaper. I haven't been able to find any post about it, but it seems like it is NOT working as intended (the buff portion). Instead of granting 50% haste for 10 seconds, it is only lasting for 4 seconds (when the mob dies before SR does its damage). The explanation on the buff we get says it should last for 10 secs, but the timer is only up for 4. (tested this again with character tab open, haste falls off after the 4 seconds).
Has this been changed, or is it a new issue?




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users