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[MoP] Survival Hunter 5.4


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#21 Physiq

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 10:14 AM

When I run SV I do not go for DB, but Fervor. Hence my opener is a bit different.

SrS
BA
ES
Fervor
MoC
Stampede
RF
GT
ES
CS

Then i go by normal prio until Fervor is of CD use it and pop Readiness and MoC. Not the highest of burst but it gives a good start to a fight. However with a fight like The astone Guard I pop Readiness right after my first MoC and use Fervorf and MoC on one of the other dogs to really pump out some dps.

#22 Allara

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 05:15 AM

In the OP, the preferred leg enchant for non-leatherworkers is actually .

#23 Smed

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 07:20 AM

Femaledwarf is showing haste to be much better than crit for my hunter. Are there known haste plateaus? My ilvl is 484 and FD gives me the following stat weights.
Haste 1.699
Crit 0.773
Mastery 0.277

#24 Azortharion

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 12:05 PM

snip


Edited by Azortharion, 02 March 2014 - 04:42 PM.


#25 Whitefyst

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Posted 31 October 2012 - 04:04 PM

The only reasonable "known" plateau (which is not really worth going for), is at 3784 haste, which allows your Dire Beast to attack one more time per duration.


I believe that the extra Dire Beast attack occurs at 3864 haste. See section 5.8.5 in the MM detailed guide for a table.

#26 MlLkMan

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:44 AM

For expertise, do we need to hit both caps for melee and range stats? My range stats shows 6.53% expertise with Dwarf racial, but the melee stats only shows 5.53% expertise. Just wanted to make sure.

#27 Hamsda

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:30 AM

No, you will only need to cap the ranged portion, so 2210 expertise rating will be enough as a dwarf/troll to cap your and your pets expertise needs.
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#28 LumduL

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 03:06 AM

@ LilM8,

Great post, though SrS ticks while spamming MS. This can be tested on the target dummies. Get a Thrill of the Hunt proc, then spam 5 multishots (you must get successive TotH procs from the Multishots). The damage log will show SrS ticks in a multiple of 7 (14 if 2 targets, 21 if 3), not a multiple of 5, meaning 2 ticks occurred during the MS spam.

When they created Cobra Shot they moved the SrS tick to a different timer from the DoT.

#29 heliconius

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 03:41 PM

Regardless of most raid targets being immune to CC component, Ice Trap seems to create a significant increase in chances of getting LnL procs, behaving cumulatively with BA, which makes me wonder why it is not mentioned anywhere on this thread, even using on CD and at a high priority.

Also I'm wondering if Glyph of No Escape has effect on raid bosses or is it worthless for raids?

#30 LumduL

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:59 AM

Also I'm wondering if Glyph of No Escape has effect on raid bosses or is it worthless for raids?


Freezing trap is the "ice block" trap, not the "ice patch" trap, so it won't work on the grand majority of bosses.

#31 Nooska

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:26 PM

Also I'm wondering if Glyph of No Escape has effect on raid bosses or is it worthless for raids?


The glyph says that you gain extra critical strike on targets affected, thus it requires the target to be affected. If the target has the slowed icon as a debuff, it is affected, if it doesn't it isn't. Most bosses are unaffected by the slowing patch (though they trigger it), so it would not have any benefit there. It is however a useful glyph in a "kill the adds" situation, especially if you are kiting them around so you are dropping the trap anyway.

#32 Tabana

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 05:46 PM

If the target has the slowed icon as a debuff, it is affected, if it doesn't it isn't. Most bosses are unaffected by the slowing patch (though they trigger it), so it would not have any benefit there.


The glyph works with Freezing Trap (freezes target in an ice cube). The slowing trap is Ice Trap.

#33 tzu2

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:05 AM

With imp SrS, my SrS is hitting for about 10k instant damage at a cost of 15 focus while my AS is hitting for about 5k at a cost of 20 focus. It seems that SrS will always be better than AS for SV hunters. This is even before you factor in the need to cast CoS just to refresh it which has a cast time. Also not counting the fact that you can dot adds in situations where you would just be using AS to bleed focus.

I dont have raid gear on my hunter nor do I normally do much theorycrafting. Is there a flaw in this thinking. Does BiS gear change these numbers. I wouldn't think gear would make that big of a difference to overcome a 100% more damage and 25% less focus cost plus all the other benefits but I don't know how to test that.

#34 Rivkah

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 07:45 AM

With imp SrS, my SrS is hitting for about 10k instant damage at a cost of 15 focus while my AS is hitting for about 5k at a cost of 20 focus. It seems that SrS will always be better than AS for SV hunters. This is even before you factor in the need to cast CoS just to refresh it which has a cast time. Also not counting the fact that you can dot adds in situations where you would just be using AS to bleed focus.

I dont have raid gear on my hunter nor do I normally do much theorycrafting. Is there a flaw in this thinking. Does BiS gear change these numbers. I wouldn't think gear would make that big of a difference to overcome a 100% more damage and 25% less focus cost plus all the other benefits but I don't know how to test that.


It looks like some of the discrepancy in your case is that you have a fairly weak weapon compared to the rest of your gear. Arcane shot scales with weapon damage, whereas serpent sting only scales with RAP. However, even taking that into account, I'm not really sure how you could be seeing those numbers- what RAP and weapon damage do you have when you're testing this? Are you sure you're not comparing an arcane shot hit to an imp sting crit?

Doing the math with my gear, I have 50648 RAP raid buffed before procs, and average weapon damage of 14442.

Arcane shot formula:
(avg weapon dmg + RAP * .2) + 2306 = 26877.6

Serpent sting formula:
RAP * .16 + 3240.38 (per tick, ticks every 3 sec) = 11344.06 * 1.5 for talent = 17016.09

Improved serpent sting formula:
Serpent sting tick * 5 ticks * .15 = 12762.0675

So according to those numbers, in good gear arcane shot is over 2x the damage of improved sting.

#35 pichuca

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 04:10 PM

With imp SrS, my SrS is hitting for about 10k instant damage at a cost of 15 focus while my AS is hitting for about 5k at a cost of 20 focus. It seems that SrS will always be better than AS for SV hunters. This is even before you factor in the need to cast CoS just to refresh it which has a cast time. Also not counting the fact that you can dot adds in situations where you would just be using AS to bleed focus.

I dont have raid gear on my hunter nor do I normally do much theorycrafting. Is there a flaw in this thinking. Does BiS gear change these numbers. I wouldn't think gear would make that big of a difference to overcome a 100% more damage and 25% less focus cost plus all the other benefits but I don't know how to test that.


It is not a flaw on your thinking, this is simply impossible. Equipping on my 495 gear an ilvl11 bow, 7.74 dps (14-26 dmg) gives me 9k+ arcane shots. to hit for 5k you need something like firelands gear with the same green bow.

#36 tenix25

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Posted 14 June 2013 - 08:18 AM

I'm looking at the set bonus for survival, and wondering if it would be a DPS loss or gain to pool explosive shots to use during favorable times. The set bonus stacks to 20, and the lock and load procs can add a proc.

#37 Esoth

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Posted 03 September 2013 - 02:38 AM

Updated for 5.4. Some remaining questions:
  • Proper target count for multi-shot dot upkeep, and proper target count for spamming multi shot.
  • Preferred trinkets


#38 Goldengiff

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:43 PM

With Assurance of Consequences BA has a lower CD than duration. If you refresh it before the old one expires do you lose the remaining damage or does it roll it into the new duration?

#39 Rivkah

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:11 PM

Unless they've changed it recently (which seems unlikely) it should work like a standard DoT, which means it will take whatever is left on the next tick and apply that to the new one. So for example, if you refresh it when there's 1 second left, your new BA will have a 21 second duration, but if you apply it when there are 3 seconds left it will still only have a 21 second duration since only what's left of the last tick will be kept. This is how it worked before when you reset BA with readiness, and it's unlikely they would modify it to work differently just because of the trinket.

One benefit of the shorter cooldown past the actual duration of BA is that on multi-target fights, you can do some limited multidotting with your BA.

#40 Altharia

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 02:10 AM

Unless they've changed it recently (which seems unlikely) it should work like a standard DoT, which means it will take whatever is left on the next tick and apply that to the new one. So for example, if you refresh it when there's 1 second left, your new BA will have a 21 second duration, but if you apply it when there are 3 seconds left it will still only have a 21 second duration since only what's left of the last tick will be kept. This is how it worked before when you reset BA with readiness, and it's unlikely they would modify it to work differently just because of the trinket.

One benefit of the shorter cooldown past the actual duration of BA is that on multi-target fights, you can do some limited multidotting with your BA.


To add to this, another benefit of the shorter cooldown is having an extra few seconds on each black arrow to optimally refresh it during trinket/scope procc etc.




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