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[Resto] Mists of Pandaria 5.4


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#1281 maestro85

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:16 PM

 

Any reason people are using Incarnation for heroic Thok vs. SotF? Seems like SotF would be a lot better, but most top parses are using Incarnation. I must be missing something.

 

This is my personal best on Thok, being #1 Druid  for some days http://www.worldoflo...&e=14548#Reevan

 

My experience is that i do not have time to use Incarnation as it would be in my opinion a throughput loss. My rotation is as following (10 man):

Apply Rejuvenation to all raidmembers,bloom mushroom if needed, use Swiftmend and Wildgrowth,place mushroom, refresh lifebloom, start from beginning.

Even with high haste numbers, the gcd triggered from an instant regrowth is longer than the 1 sec gcd from reju. I only tried Incarnation once while progress and did not really like it.


Edited by maestro85, 13 November 2013 - 03:21 PM.


#1282 Veeshan

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:23 PM

Looking for some information on the current BiS trinkets.

 

Is the current list in the guide on page 1 still up to par? I am currently using Thok's Acid Grooved tooth along with Dysmorphic Samaphlange of discontinuity. I am still trying for a prismatic prison from sha but haven't been lucky enough to grab one yet. Also still looking to grab a Nazgrim Insignia as it is also ranked up there. I cannot find any information on any of the usual information outlets(Icy Viegns, MMO Champion, Here) as to which of these are truly better then the others. At my current gear level which is 540(some Normal and LFR pieces) I am leaving towards the Prismatic prism and Dysmorphic Samoplange for the regen. My main concern and question is are Thok's or Nazgrim's better options for the Cleave/multistrike over either of these 2? 



#1283 maestro85

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 03:36 PM

Trinkets are in my opinion encounter and raidsize specific.

 

While Prismatic Prison of Pride seems to be doing well in any circumstances, i change my 2nd trinket slot for the current encounter.

For Thok progress i used Thok's Acid Grooved Tooth as we played with 2 big camps and thus the cleave proc hit its maximum number of targets.

For Siegecrafter and Klaxxi progress i used Dysmporhic Samophlange as i had mana issues.

To answer your question: Thok preferred when your raid stacks , Nazgrim when people are split.

Though i can`t prove it as i am a 10 man only raider, i would say that in a 25 raiding environment thok scales better as more potential cleave targets are present



#1284 Nighti

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 11:32 PM

Hey Guys,

 

this is my first post here and i hope that i dont do anything wrong.

First of all i want to say sorry for my bad english, but i am really trying.

 

I was reading through this forum for quiet a long time and i did not find anything to the following problem:

I am using the heroic version of the Sha of Pride trinket, what means 9% more Haste, Mastery and Spirit statswise.

Now i am trying to reforge and i normally did it on my own, because i normally like the math behind it, but resently the trinket did not work as intended.

Correct me, if i am wrong:

I need 13163 Haste for the cap, that means that i need 12077 without the trinket ( 13163 / 1.09 = 12077).

So now i got 12086 Haste without it, but with the trinket i only have 13115 Haste.

 

I am really confused and i already searched for this problem in different forums, all they said is relogging will help.

Since i did this for quiet some time and it did not change anything i am now writing this.

I made a ticket, but as usual it is taking more then some time.

 

Best greetz

Nighti

 

-> if there is anything wrong with this post, just delete it. I really dont want to offence anybody or do something wrong.



#1285 Arzo

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:17 AM

Hey Guys,

 

this is my first post here and i hope that i dont do anything wrong.

First of all i want to say sorry for my bad english, but i am really trying.

 

I was reading through this forum for quiet a long time and i did not find anything to the following problem:

I am using the heroic version of the Sha of Pride trinket, what means 9% more Haste, Mastery and Spirit statswise.

Now i am trying to reforge and i normally did it on my own, because i normally like the math behind it, but resently the trinket did not work as intended.

Correct me, if i am wrong:

I need 13163 Haste for the cap, that means that i need 12077 without the trinket ( 13163 / 1.09 = 12077).

So now i got 12086 Haste without it, but with the trinket i only have 13115 Haste.

 

I am really confused and i already searched for this problem in different forums, all they said is relogging will help.

Since i did this for quiet some time and it did not change anything i am now writing this.

I made a ticket, but as usual it is taking more then some time.

 

Best greetz

Nighti

 

-> if there is anything wrong with this post, just delete it. I really dont want to offence anybody or do something wrong.

i think heroic Prismatic is only 8.51 % to stats, heroic warforged (2/2) is 9%...so that could add to your calculation errors



#1286 Nighti

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 12:28 AM

Hey and thanks for the reply.

Seems like you are true, i did not think about that :).

That totally solved it! I feel so dumb right now haha.

 

Well again, thanks, did not think about that 1. 

Best greetz

Nighti



#1287 krazyito65

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 07:38 AM

I'm currently sitting at 50% mastery raid buffed (21k mastery), 16k spirit and the 3k haste breakpoint. 

 

I found with some custom Mr. Robot weights, I can reach 39% mastery raid buffed (15k mastery), 12.3k spirit, and 13k haste breakpoint.

 

 

I'm currently working on Heroic Thok (though skipped spoils for some reason, probably go back later) .  Would it be wise for me to switch to the haste build being this far into the tier?  I have been working towards some haste pieces, but I feel with my slightly heavy mastery gear I'd be better off using this and gemming haste so I keep a decent amount of mastery after the breakpoint.  

 

A lot of other druids I'm seeing are at about 5k total mastery (unbuffed) with about the same gear, which I really don't like personally.

 

Another thing is I'm a little worried about my mana.  I've been running with about 16k spirit all tier and I'm just unsure if I'll get use to it, especially during progression.

 

How much of an HPS difference will this breakpoint actually do for me at this point in my gear?

 

http://us.battle.net...azyito/advanced - current armory 

 

http://www.worldoflo...6x5h/dashboard/  - here are the logs for tonight progression (killing Malk and working on Thok)  

 

I may just stay mastery for this week and compare again next week to haste.

 

Let me know what you think.


Edited by krazyito65, 14 November 2013 - 07:59 AM.


#1288 maestro85

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 01:24 PM

In my opinion 13k hbp is the way to go, being available since the end of ToT when you could easily reach this value with an average itemlvl of 540 (even earlier with perfect itemization).

With your itemlevel you can easily go for the 13k hbp and still sustain a decent amount of mastery and spirit.

About our spirit concerns: Its a raidcomp and raidsize specific issue and of course after all dependant on your personal playstyle. You have to stack more spirit if you dont have access to manatide / moonkin innervate etc. Also in 25`s you tend to spend more mana than you do in 10`s.

I personally raided till Thok with a very low amount of Spirit (8-10k) but i had a Reso shaman and moonkin with me and i was in a 10 man guild.

When progressing Thok i added some extra spirit due to the mana intensive healing phases while being stacked in camps.

For testing purposes i also tried the 3045 hbp during Thok progress but i switched back to the 13k hbp very quickly as it was a noticeable throughput loss for me.

 

Edit: Looking at your armory i can see that you are at 3278 haste, meaning that you are about 220 haste above the cap which makes those 220 haste very inefficient. Only a small amount of couse but still this would not be the case when going for the 13k hbp

 

This is my log from yesterday Thok hc 10 man (atm #2 world druid for thok) http://www.worldoflo...3&e=9500#Reevan

 

Hope i could help you out


Edited by maestro85, 14 November 2013 - 01:29 PM.


#1289 krazyito65

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Posted 14 November 2013 - 09:57 PM

Edit: Looking at your armory i can see that you are at 3278 haste, meaning that you are about 220 haste above the cap which makes those 220 haste very inefficient. Only a small amount of couse but still this would not be the case when going for the 13k hbp

 

Well, I have that much becasue I set my weights on my Mr. Robot profile to say that spirit and haste past the breakpoints are fairly low priority.  So since I gain more mastery from reforging out of my spirit than my haste, thats what happened.  IMO more mastery from spirit than from the haste is more beneficial to me right now since I have an over abundance of spirit.

 

I run 25 man, and for the most part I think I can get my raid to use Mana cooldowns more efficiently and I'll be fine.  What I think I'll do though is keep mastery for today and then go haste before next reset.  Like that I can do a WoL comparison



#1290 Dinevian

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 02:34 PM

          Hello guys, this is my first post on these forums although I've used EJ since I raided in BC as a valuable reference tool.  I'm currently trying to get back into raiding and I'm really just wanting to hear some opinions other than what can be found on most generic guides.  As I am not in a guild right now, my raid experience in MoP is limited to LFR, Flex, and the occasional PuG reg SoO.

 

           I've used askmrrobot.com to "optimize" my gear as well as followed every guide I've found which seems credible, however in following these guides I have read and reforging and regemming to match the suggestions I was given, the results simply don't seem as good as they should be.  What I mean by that is traditionally, I have always followed my intuition when it comes to gear optimization, stat priority based on my preferred playstyle, and talent choices.

 

             I have played a resto-druid for a very long time, and as one might expect, I've become very familiar with the class.  One of the questions I have is well, basically I have been told recently that I am completely wrong by using Incarnation as opposed to Soul of the Forest.  Just me personally, I prefer the control I have using Incarnation over the sort of static, almost rotation based SotF.  I feel that even though the overall numbers which show up on recount might be slightly higher for those who use SotF and do so very effectively, the level of control I have when using Incarnation and the effectivness of my heals when they are needed most simply works better for me.  Also, instead of going with the advice of Mr. Robot and basically chopping my haste down, I try to maintain as much haste as possible. I understand the breakpoints, and I believe that fully buffed, I am very near one of the, for the lack of a better term "Top-End" breakpoints.

 

  This setup has consistently yielded better results than a more mastery-heavy spec.  Even though I am at a low-level of raiding and the situations I am exposed to are vastly different than what many of you encounter on a weekly basis, I almost always outperform other resto-druids as well as most other healing-classes with a similar and many times significantly higher gear level. I am simply asking for some insight and maybe a little affirmation if possible.

 

http://us.battle.net...Dinevian/simple

 

This is my armory.  If I have made a mistake in the formatting of this post, please forgive me and help me out if you can.  As I said before, this is my first time actually posting anything on this site.  Any sort of critique or constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated.  I am aiming to be the best I can be even if I am limited by the content and gear available to me.

 

                                                                                                                                     Thank you very much for your time and consideration!



#1291 Arzo

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 03:41 PM

          Hello guys, this is my first post on these forums although I've used EJ since I raided in BC as a valuable reference tool.  I'm currently trying to get back into raiding and I'm really just wanting to hear some opinions other than what can be found on most generic guides.  As I am not in a guild right now, my raid experience in MoP is limited to LFR, Flex, and the occasional PuG reg SoO.

 

           I've used askmrrobot.com to "optimize" my gear as well as followed every guide I've found which seems credible, however in following these guides I have read and reforging and regemming to match the suggestions I was given, the results simply don't seem as good as they should be.  What I mean by that is traditionally, I have always followed my intuition when it comes to gear optimization, stat priority based on my preferred playstyle, and talent choices.

 

             I have played a resto-druid for a very long time, and as one might expect, I've become very familiar with the class.  One of the questions I have is well, basically I have been told recently that I am completely wrong by using Incarnation as opposed to Soul of the Forest.  Just me personally, I prefer the control I have using Incarnation over the sort of static, almost rotation based SotF.  I feel that even though the overall numbers which show up on recount might be slightly higher for those who use SotF and do so very effectively, the level of control I have when using Incarnation and the effectivness of my heals when they are needed most simply works better for me.  Also, instead of going with the advice of Mr. Robot and basically chopping my haste down, I try to maintain as much haste as possible. I understand the breakpoints, and I believe that fully buffed, I am very near one of the, for the lack of a better term "Top-End" breakpoints.

 

  This setup has consistently yielded better results than a more mastery-heavy spec.  Even though I am at a low-level of raiding and the situations I am exposed to are vastly different than what many of you encounter on a weekly basis, I almost always outperform other resto-druids as well as most other healing-classes with a similar and many times significantly higher gear level. I am simply asking for some insight and maybe a little affirmation if possible.

 

http://us.battle.net...Dinevian/simple

 

This is my armory.  If I have made a mistake in the formatting of this post, please forgive me and help me out if you can.  As I said before, this is my first time actually posting anything on this site.  Any sort of critique or constructive criticism would be greatly appreciated.  I am aiming to be the best I can be even if I am limited by the content and gear available to me.

 

                                                                                                                                     Thank you very much for your time and consideration!

Incarnation vs SOTF tends to be a touchy subject, but its all preference. Most fights where I know I won't use Incarnation multiple times ill use SOTF. Fights where I know I'll need the CD (some heroics), Ill pick up Incarnation.

 

In terms of your gear, def get to either the 13k haste break point, or drop down to the 3k. As people have mentioned before, anything in between is useless/wasted stats. Granted you are lower ilvl, you should still see an increase if you drop haste and pick up mastery. 

 

goodluck



#1292 Darkwing Duck

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Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:15 PM

http://us.battle.net...Dinevian/simple

                                                                                                                                     Thank you very much for your time and consideration!

 

I don't feel like starting a discussion about which talent choice is the right one since it's very much a personal preference in my opinion (personally I prefer FoN, because I think it's a lot more fun than the other two, but it probably isn't quite as strong).

 

With your current gear you're probably better off shedding some haste to get as close to the 3043 breakpoint as possible. Then try out a raid with as much spirit as possible (more than 15k) and see how it feels. Your second stat priority should be Mastery. This means you have to use gems with 320 Spi for blue slots, 80 Int + 160 Spi for red slots and 160 Mastery + 160 Spi for yellow slots.

 

You will likely notice a large difference in your available mana and as such how much you can keep using Rejuvenation throughout an entire fight (and spamming Rejuvenation is the Resto Druid way if you ask me!).



#1293 Hamlet

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 04:50 PM

I've been quiet around here lately, between holidays and also because there isn't all that much to theorycraft before we see the Warlords beta and class changes. I will be on this podcast again discussing Resto topics this Saturday:

http://teamwafflecas...o-roundtable-4/

 

So at the very least, good chance for me to review Resto goings-on that are still relevant for the end of this expansion. I should come back to this thread and get back caught up on everything too, but for now, I figured I'd link that since it might be a good place to start some discussion.



#1294 Raedeon

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 01:52 PM

Hey guys, new to these boards. Long time resto druid,i come from a fairly high end raiding background but my guild (weve been together since launch) have kinda retired and were just social group now. Im not doing any raids, not even flex. We are however doing challenge modes but so far ive had no issues healing these. 

 

Im really here out of curiosity to find out a bit more about haste break points. How important *really* are these, Im just sitting at the 3043 cap and focusing on mastery/spirit. I seem to have to sacrifice a tonne to make any of the higher caps, if i even can. My gear is obviously just LFR stuff, im sitting at an average ilvl of 520 or something. 

 

Is this something that becomes a lot more important at heroic content? 



#1295 Hamlet

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 05:14 PM

The difference between 3043 and 13163 haste setups isn't overwhelming. At 520 it's probably hard or impossible to reach 13163, so I'd stay where you are. If you're primarily thinking about challenge, you definitely can't reach 13163. Make sure you're at 3043 however, even after the challenge mode scaledown--you can zone into Proving Grounds and use the reforger inside there to do this easily.



#1296 JLocout

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 05:40 PM

It's hard to talk about haste with just pure numbers. What you need to really weigh in is the type of healing you will require.

Why 13k haste is good:
-extra tick of rejuv along with extra ticks on you other hots. I've read it equates to about 20 % increase in hot heals.
-snappier casting due to reduced global cool down. Everything just feels more responsive. If you need to rejuv players, you will do it faster.
-generally, spirit is reduced to compensate loss in mastery, requiring a more reactive play style rather than a spamming style.

Why 3k haste is good:
-harmony buff is maximized resulting in straight up percent increase in hot healing.
-more spirit available to find your sweet spot.
-lower gear levels will not sacrifice harmony buff and spirit for 13k to where it's uncomfortable.

Personally, I was using 3k haste until about i545 because I was concerned about running oom. The higher the ilevel the easier it is to switch to 13k haste, but really the trick is finding out how low you can manage spirit. I switched when I could get 13k haste with 25% harmony(fully buffed).

Looking at world of logs, most people are running 13k haste at higher gear levels. I loved making the switch, the sooner the better.

#1297 Raedeon

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 10:41 AM

@Hamlet, thanks ill do that. Wasnt sure on how the scaling down worked so ill defo have to reforge some stuff to hit that cap.

 

@JLocout How 'aggressively' do you need to be to reach the 13k cap? I mean are you gemming and enchanting haste whenever you can or does it come fairly naturally? Running with low spirit isnt something that concerns me but i wouldnt want to lose a whole tonne of mastery



#1298 Hobnaker

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 08:16 PM

It gets easier to more gear you get. Don't bother with it until you're 540+. Half of my gems are mastery and I have it, but I outgear most people. Earlier on you're going to need to be pretty aggressive with gemming for haste.

 

Also, to clarify something, more haste will never make casting Rejuvs faster. GCD will not go below 1 second.



#1299 maestro85

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Posted 25 January 2014 - 06:37 AM

Dear Jlocout,

i would kindly ask you to reconsider the suggestions you give to help seeking players, as a big part of what u wrote is just plain nonsense:

If you need to rejuv players, you will do it faster.

 

This ist just wrong, Rejuvenation has a baseline 1 sec gcd, it cannot be reduced below that by any haste breakpoint.

 

generally, spirit is reduced to compensate loss in mastery, requiring a more reactive play style rather than a spamming style.

 

Again, this is not true, you dont sacrifice spirit to gain the the necessary value for the 13k hbp. If you are around 535-540 average itemlevel, you can start going for the 13k hbp (given that your itemization is heavy haste rating focused). The stat that will mainly suffer will be Mastery and NOT spirit.... you can't run around with 3-5k spirit but i can manage to run around with 3-5k mastery....

 

harmony buff is maximized resulting in straight up percent increase in hot healing.

 

There is no valid reason, why your harmony uptime is influenced by a haste breakpoint. This is just again nonsense. I hope youre talking about the harmony value itself and not the uptime. Still, the harmony percentage lost by achieving the 13k hbp is equalized by the additional hots ticks you gain and the reduced cast time of your direct healing spells. In any way you look at it, its still no valid argument.

 

lower gear levels will not sacrifice harmony buff and spirit for 13k to where it's uncomfortable

 

And again: Harmony uptime has 0 correlation with ur current haste rating and again: You dont sacrifce spirit to gain the 13k hpp, you sacrfice your mastery rating to gain the desired haste value.

 

Please do not tell people about things you obviously have no clue about...

 

Generally, 99% of the top logs in SoO hc mode are done with the 13k hbp, there is no reason to delay the switch to the 13k hbp when you have enough secondary stats/items with haste rating. I personally tried the 13k hbp and the 3k hbp on Thok hc 10 man prenerf and the switch to the 3k hbp was absolutely disappointing. It was roughly 50-80k less throughput in p1.

So go for it (13khbp) as soon as you can



#1300 renchy

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 02:02 PM

It has been a while since I have last posted here,

However Its time for another question, after my guild disbanded I have been slowly drifting away from WoW in general, however my friend needed me to raid with them on Seigecrafter HC, it has been over 3 months since I last progressed on this boss, So I was very rusty in tactics and just general game play.

My question is what talent choices, trinket choices etc are you fellow druids using to kill this boss??






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