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[Balance] Mists of Pandaria 5.4, Guide and Discussion


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#41 zgollum

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 05:19 AM

The sheet should work, however armory import won't due to Microsoft not fully supporting Excel 64 bit. I'd advise everyone to use Excel 32 bit unless you're using gigabyte file size spreadsheets for this reason (you should have both if you have Excel 64, it comes with the installer for that too).

If there are problems with the sheet in general on 64 bit, drop me a PM or post in the Wrathcalcs thread and I'll see if I can resolve. It's possible the earlier fix didn't make the transition to the MoP version.


Yeah, I see that only armory import is broken because of ScriptControl being unavailable in 64bit Excel. I've tried to use a vba lib to do json parsing as an alternative but the lib was parsing data into dictionary instead of making a cool and easy to use object as scriptcontrol does so I went on and installed 32 Excel :) I've still had issues with armory import by the way, not sure why no one mentioned. There's a function that tries to do For Each tree in talents, but there are no 'trees' in my talents in my character's json.
Please let me know if I should post WrathCalcs issues in another thread instead of doing it here.

#42 Skyepic

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 05:40 AM

Anyone able to shed some light on which would be stronger between Mithril Wristwatch and Zen Alchemist Stone?


My guess would be Mithril Wristwatch since INT has a 1:1 SP conversion.

Don't know if anyone has done research/analysis on trinkets yet but i have found Wristwatch and Alchemist stone to be by far the best two trinkets pre raid. Mainly because they both have a 45 sec ICD which along with the short ICD allow them to consistently sync with each other quite nicely.

I would put Vision of the predator in front of Flashfrozen Resin Globule since Vision has a 2.5min CD (this is merely speculation though and not fact). This is also under the assumption you are hit capped, which is not difficult to reach in close to full 463 gear.

In Short: Wristwatch > Alchemist Stone > Vision of the Predator > Flashfrozen Resin Globule

#43 Slippykins

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 12:18 PM

Been going through WrathCalcs and trying to improve on the standard BiS list that Tecton wrote up.

Going from Hamlet's suggestions of Smooth (+320 crit) gems in yellow sockets and Piercing (+160 crit/hit) in blue, along with a few reforge, enchant and gearing changes, I managed to get the overall DPS up to 108023.87. This includes reaching 8089 haste (right on the breakpoint) and 5105 hit (5 over cap). Since we're not just trying to maximise haste and get hit capped like in previous expansions, having two caps to reach simultaneously makes reforging and jumping around those two numbers difficult. There may be one, at a stretch two, better reforging methods than what I've done, but it would be hard to find them. Also, some gear was changed due to ilvl improvements, as well as tier (explanation below). ~1.2k DPS may not seem like a lot, but I think it helps to put us in a better place when compared with the other classes. Rather disappointed Dream of Cenarius looks like the best DPS option..

Anyway, with regards to tier - for Boomkin tier we have the options of: ; ; ; ; . The Resto options aren't too hot either. My reasoning for the change in the first place was simply to minimise mastery on pieces. If we only look at the pieces with mastery, we really want to swap out either the hat, shoulders or pants. We want to stay away from swapping out the pants, since they have a lot of passive haste. Therefore, it's either the shoulders or the hat. I originally swapped in the Resto shoulders () to begin with (which was an increase still), but after finding the awesome , I was able to pull off some great reforging and grab another 200 DPS.

Please pick apart and dissect this gear list as best as you can, so we can figure out exactly what's best. I'm still not sure how to just send people my WrathCalc profile, so I resort to the Wowhead profiler. Don't pay attention to the stats it lists, just take from it the gear/gems/reforges. All talents are default how Tecton left it, I couldn't find any better solution. To compare, download the most recent WrathCalcs update and manually enter the Wowhead data in (I've had problems editing older/different profiles). I'll put the exact pieces with all additives in with spoiler tags tomorrow.



--------------------------------------------------------------

Boomkin T14H BiS: MMO-Champion thread OR Profiler - Wowhead (must be signed into Wowhead)

--------------------------------------------------------------



I've already checked a few things that result in a DPS loss, including (but not limited to):

Using any Resto tier piece is a DPS loss.
or in any reforging/gearing scenario is a DPS loss.
in any reforging/gearing scenario is a DPS loss.
is a DPS loss.
is (surprisingly, but not surprisingly) a DPS loss.
is a clear DPS loss.
is a DPS loss.
is only a DPS loss because is required for haste purposes, and is better.

Spoiler


#44 Zantaz

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 12:30 PM

My guess would be Mithril Wristwatch since INT has a 1:1 SP conversion.

Don't know if anyone has done research/analysis on trinkets yet but i have found Wristwatch and Alchemist stone to be by far the best two trinkets pre raid. Mainly because they both have a 45 sec ICD which along with the short ICD allow them to consistently sync with each other quite nicely.

I would put Vision of the predator in front of Flashfrozen Resin Globule since Vision has a 2.5min CD (this is merely speculation though and not fact). This is also under the assumption you are hit capped, which is not difficult to reach in close to full 463 gear.

In Short: Wristwatch > Alchemist Stone > Vision of the Predator > Flashfrozen Resin Globule


Is that assuming the proc works correctly? Because at the moment, the proc is incorrectly triggered for 10s by equipping the trinket and only by equipping the trinket. Thus, until it is fixed, it is only worth whatever passive stats are on it.

#45 Karepow

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 03:37 PM

Is that assuming the proc works correctly? Because at the moment, the proc is incorrectly triggered for 10s by equipping the trinket and only by equipping the trinket. Thus, until it is fixed, it is only worth whatever passive stats are on it.


No it's fixed now. The proc chance seems low though. I have way more uptime on my Alchemist trinket than the Mithril Wristwatch.

#46 Tecton

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 04:03 PM

Yeah, I see that only armory import is broken because of ScriptControl being unavailable in 64bit Excel. I've tried to use a vba lib to do json parsing as an alternative but the lib was parsing data into dictionary instead of making a cool and easy to use object as scriptcontrol does so I went on and installed 32 Excel :) I've still had issues with armory import by the way, not sure why no one mentioned. There's a function that tries to do For Each tree in talents, but there are no 'trees' in my talents in my character's json.
Please let me know if I should post WrathCalcs issues in another thread instead of doing it here.


Yeah, I'd post it over in the Wrathcalcs thread to keep this one on track. The next update should have armory import updated for the new JSON structure. I'm in the process of working on it now, if someone could tell Blizzard that random stat items are a nightmare that'd be great!

#47 Tecton

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 11:22 PM

Boomkin T14H BiS: Profiler - Wowhead


Tried checking this to add to Wrathcalcs, the page is just blank?

#48 Slippykins

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:19 AM

Tried checking this to add to Wrathcalcs, the page is just blank?


You have to be signed into Wowhead, I got the same blank page just verifying the link worked. Cleared up once I signed in.

#49 Stommped

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:40 AM

I'm curious as to what you guys plan on using talent/reforge wise heading into Tuesday's first raid. I was set on using INC/NV with Crit>Haste>Mast reforge priority, but Wrathcalcs seems to disagree. Currently in my 463 blues the highest DPS combination comes from FoN/HotW, and that is the same whether I reforge for Crit or Haste.

Which brings me to the second thing I found odd when playing around in WC, I assumed that with it being impossible to reach the 5200 breakpoint in blues that crit would be the way to go. But when I entered my stats of around 1300 haste and 4000 crit, WC actually preferred Haste>Crit at 1.75 to 1.72. And then these stat weights flip flopped when I reversed my reforges to prefer haste over crit. It doesn't seem to matter which stat you gear for, WC has them virtually dead even at our current gear levels.

The bigger issue however is the talent choices. Hamlet/Tec do the calculations for FoN need to be tweaked at all?

#50 Tecton

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 08:47 AM

I'm valuing Haste and Crit roughly equally at these low levels of gear, however if I have to choose between one I'm tending to go with Haste just because of the secondary benefits (I find having quicker casts easier to use on new encounters). Not really a scientific answer, but it's the method I'm using. I've also been running with Incarnation/HotW for heroics because the healing cooldown has proven useful on hilarious pulls.

As far as FoN, we still need to correctly identify how many attacks they get at different levels of haste. I think it's going to have to be something of a judgement call due to their dodgy mechanics, though.

#51 zgollum

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:32 PM

A really noob question, but could someone please explain the logic behind this:
"When casting two DoTs at the beginning of Eclipse: first cast the Eclipsed DoT, then the uneclipsed DoT, then Starsurge if it's up."

Casting a weaker dot first would buff initial damage of the stronger dot by 45% and seems to be clearly more favorable. I could only think of one reason to do otherwise - hoping that the stronger dot would be prolonged by SF/W crits and thus it will last at least as long as the weaker dot which is cast 1 gcd later.

#52 Hamlet

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 07:55 PM

That is what I was thinking, but I hadn't thought about Lunar Shower. Since it actually makes little difference as far as duration, I should probably swap that.

#53 zgollum

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 08:11 PM

Well, it'd be nice to be sure :) I've tried testing it but the difference isn't visible without any clothes on and it's too hard to test with clothes on because of random procs and stuff. I guess simcrafting it both way would be the right thing to do.

#54 Tecton

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:07 AM

Which brings me to the second thing I found odd when playing around in WC, I assumed that with it being impossible to reach the 5200 breakpoint in blues that crit would be the way to go. But when I entered my stats of around 1300 haste and 4000 crit, WC actually preferred Haste>Crit at 1.75 to 1.72. And then these stat weights flip flopped when I reversed my reforges to prefer haste over crit. It doesn't seem to matter which stat you gear for, WC has them virtually dead even at our current gear levels.


Just further to this point: I'm able to hit this breakpoint in pre-raid gear. I'm currently at 5555 Haste while hit capped, and it's still showing as slightly better than Crit, point for point. I still have upgrades available for my bracers & neck, too.

#55 Erdluf

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:21 AM

Well, it'd be nice to be sure I've tried testing it but the difference isn't visible without any clothes on and it's too hard to test with clothes on because of random procs and stuff. I guess simcrafting it both way would be the right thing to do.


If the stronger DoT is likely to get clipped (target will die soon, you refresh before leaving Eclipse, or you plan to use AC after the current Eclipse), you'd want to cast the stronger DoT first, giving it one or possibly two extra ticks before it is clipped.

If the weaker DoT is still ticking (particularly if it is Eclipe-boosted), cast the stronger DoT now. Don't overwrite a DoT with an Eclipse bonus with a DoT that has no such bonus (you could make an exception to this for a long chain of DoT spam while moving).

If for some reason, Lunar Shower won't matter for the second DoT (you won't be able to make two consecutive casts, or you already have LS*3 from casting at other targets), cast the stronger DoT first.

Otherwise, Zgollum is correct, you want to give the Lunar shower bonus to the stronger DoT. However the difference is fairly small (perhaps <0.3% total DPS).

#56 Karepow

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:50 AM

Just further to this point: I'm able to hit this breakpoint in pre-raid gear. I'm currently at 5555 Haste while hit capped, and it's still showing as slightly better than Crit, point for point. I still have upgrades available for my bracers & neck, too.


I'm interested to know what your DPS is looking like after reaching this haste breakpoint? I'm currently going for as much crit as possible.

#57 Hamlet

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 02:14 AM

Just further to this point: I'm able to hit this breakpoint in pre-raid gear. I'm currently at 5555 Haste while hit capped, and it's still showing as slightly better than Crit, point for point. I still have upgrades available for my bracers & neck, too.


That is interesting--I'd been showing haste as pretty consistently (slightly) under crit when I played with it a few days ago. In any case though, that's similar to logic of why I put haste over crit in the way I wound up writing the guide for now. They're similar in value without breakpoints, and breakpoints are worth a good amount even you spread the value over a few thousand haste. So for advanced players, a more convenient way to think about things is to gear for haste first and then pull back to a breakpoint. For beginners who won't look in that much detail it's sort of arbitrary, but favoring haste is probably in the long run because they'll hit those breakpoints in the process.

#58 HarleyM

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 03:17 AM

From my testing Zen Alchemist Stone appears to be a 55s ICD, not a 45s ICD, and does proc off of DoTs.

#59 MÃ nze

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:35 PM

In Short: Wristwatch > Alchemist Stone > Vision of the Predator > Flashfrozen Resin Globule


What about ? At least at the moment this trinket ist BoE and anyone can make use of 3 cogwheel sockets, resulting in 1800 sec. stats of choice which is pretty huge for an ilvl450 item.

p.s Note that cogwheels are unique equipped, so you will probably end up using +600 crit, +600 haste and +600 spirit combo.

#60 Skyepic

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 01:24 AM

What about ? At least at the moment this trinket ist BoE and anyone can make use of 3 cogwheel sockets, resulting in 1800 sec. stats of choice which is pretty huge for an ilvl450 item.

p.s Note that cogwheels are unique equipped, so you will probably end up using +600 crit, +600 haste and +600 spirit combo.


I feel the dragonling falls off because you can't add Intellect to it as well as the proc being very lackluster.




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