Jump to content


Photo

[Ret 5.4 MoP] Retribution Concordance (RetCon) - Siege the Day


  • Please log in to reply
982 replies to this topic

#21 Balhale

Balhale

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 156 posts

Posted 26 September 2012 - 08:20 PM

So it would appear that as long as you can reforge out of hit/exp into haste, it could be benefitial to gem full exp/hit/haste over str? It would be a bit risky because 2 haste is only slightly better than 1 str, and you can't always reforge perfectly so there's always risk of losing more stats than gaining. Also, losing a lot of str could cause haste value to drop below 50%.


As long as you can hit/exp cap from gear alone you should because then you are trading the weaker haste/crit/mastery for stronger hit/exp/str (can't get str from anything but gems). Besides, at the T14H level you can't reforge out enough hit to do that anyway.

#22 poloqq

poloqq

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 29 September 2012 - 04:09 AM

a brief comment about the priorities not changing under SW: Imo they do slightly change, as it should prove beneficial to prioritize harder-hitting judgment over cs as there should be no dps loss incurred by postponing a CS which you would normally get outside SW usage. It is the case as it's impossible to have empty GCDs under the said CD. That being said, I am personally wondering which priority would be better under SW : 5TV > HoW > Exo > CS > Judg > 3TV or maybe straight 3TV > HoW > Exo > Judg > CS

The resoning behind trying to put 3TV at the top is getting more hard-hitting attacks while under long SW as it seems to me it may not be a gain to always build to 5 hp while under SW

The rotations in practice should look as follows, assuming opening 3hp inq then cds :

normal 5tv prio : HoW - Exo - HoW - CS - HoW - TV - HoW - CS...
judge over cs 5tv : HoW - Exo - How - Judge - HoW - TV - HoW - Judge...
3tv prio : HoW - Exo - HoW - 3TV - HoW - CS - HoW - 3TV...

Moreover, I do think that nearing the end of SW may call for the return of the original priority as the additional damage of harder-hitting abilities may no longer outweigh postponed generators, especially CS shotly after SW ends

I have no idea where to fit ES into this, though (after 3hp inq before cds;first/second gcd of cds; some other place?)

I myself use the 3TV prio, but I do so only under gut instinct. I am not a theorycrafter myself, so I put forward this idea for testing for the greater minds of the community. I apologize if i overlooked somethings that makes this proposal void or if this has been tested earlier. Cheers

#23 Balhale

Balhale

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 156 posts

Posted 29 September 2012 - 04:52 AM

The only difference between 3 and 5 HP TVs under SancWrath is trading one Exo/CS/Judge for one TV if you start SancWrath with no holy power.

Is your Judgment hitting harder than your CS even including mastery?

#24 poloqq

poloqq

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 29 September 2012 - 06:46 AM

nope, forgot judgment does not benefit from mastery -_-. The 3hp tv priority may produce more gain than 1 TV, however, depending, on procs as when you do not try to "cap" HP, you leave more room for fitting exo procs (as HP does not go over 3) whereas you would be forced to use 5hptv otherwise. consider such circumstances :

5hptv : how - exo - how - cs - how - (EXO PROC that cant be used immediately) TV - how - EXO PROC USED -
3hptv : how - exo - how - tv - how - (EXO PROC) - exo - how - tv - how - tv

as you see, striving to cap hp (which is ungrounded under SW as there never occurs a scenario in which you cannot use a filler and without such a scenario, going over 3 hp loses its benefits) pushed exo proc 2 gcds and created a (likely, especially under bloodlust) danger of an additional exo proc overriding the unused one.

What interests me is this : -
-is there any downside to this strategy? only scenario i can think of in which this could be a dps loss is when at the end of SW we are left with an empty gcd in which 3hp tv would be used under the normal priority
-where to fit ES in this?

#25 Balhale

Balhale

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 156 posts

Posted 29 September 2012 - 07:24 AM

ES should take the place of your first exo. I don't know that there is a specific downside to that plan.

#26 Gothmor

Gothmor

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 29 September 2012 - 09:50 AM

is there a downside of ES in the burst phase at the beginning, should I start the fight with ES or wait for the first burst after 10 secs with goak?

And when I play with HA, should I use ES directly before the burst macro or directly after and loose one cooldown 3 hp?

#27 Sha_

Sha_

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 29 September 2012 - 01:06 PM

Is it worth delaying ES a few seconds at the begging of the fight to put Inq up?

And if have Engineering put a macro with ES + Gloves isn't a good dps increase over all other professions?

#28 Balhale

Balhale

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 156 posts

Posted 29 September 2012 - 09:00 PM

Yes, delay ES for a few seconds at the beginning of the fight to get Inq + AW + GoAK up. If you have engineering use gloves to boost every ES.

#29 Ronark

Ronark

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 345 posts

Posted 29 September 2012 - 10:13 PM

The macro would look like, in its basic form:

/use 10
/cast Execurion Sentence


#30 RebornTN

RebornTN

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 21 posts

Posted 29 September 2012 - 11:22 PM

is there a downside of ES in the burst phase at the beginning, should I start the fight with ES or wait for the first burst after 10 secs with goak?

And when I play with HA, should I use ES directly before the burst macro or directly after and loose one cooldown 3 hp?


I've been toying around with a Macro to cast AW + ES + Trinket or glove enchant if you have them (spam it to make sure ES goes off in the case you are mid gcd) and then activating HA right after since the duration is only 18 seconds you lose at most half a GCD though you do have to press 2 buttons instead of one. Seems to work very well, even with LH if you are ready to click where you need to put it.

#31 Daylight

Daylight

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:37 AM

It's early in the morning so excuse me if I've missed something obvious.

What is going on with the itembudget for the JC'ing gems.

The rigid serpents eye have 480 hit and the bold serpents eye have 320 str.

It seems that only the jc'ing gems have this strange budget.

#32 Exemplar

Exemplar

    The One-Eyed Man

  • • Guide Author
  • 1,810 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 01:39 PM

Sounds like JC gems had the +50% secondary and never were upgraded to the +100% secondary. Sounds like JC should stick with Bold Serpent's Eyes in that case.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

#33 Tobrexa

Tobrexa

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 91 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:01 AM

Sounds like JC gems had the +50% secondary and never were upgraded to the +100% secondary. Sounds like JC should stick with Bold Serpent's Eyes in that case.


Perhaps this is intended, as all the other professions' perks are primary stats, are they not?

Go tell the Spartans, passerby:
That here, by Spartan law, we lie.


#34 mackaque

mackaque

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 21 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:51 AM

Nope, BS you can get 2 * 320 secondary stats.

#35 Tourism

Tourism

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:21 AM

I was looking at some sims for trinkets. Does Simulationcraft 505-1 sim the procs of either or . Looking at the data SimC is spitting out currently neither of the procs are accounted for.

Without any porcs counted for the Ghost Iron Dragonling is siming about 1.2k DPS about the other trinket. Just trying to figure out what my best bet for trinkets are for my first raid.

#36 Balhale

Balhale

    Piston Honda

  • Members
  • 156 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:57 AM

You want Lessons of the Darkmaster and Carbonic Carbuncle. Coren's is worse because it is only a 10% chance to proc from our roughly 25% crit chance. So no guarantee it goes off anywhere close to on ICD. Dragonling and Daelo's Final Words are both decent trinkets as well, just not quite as strong as the 463s.

Edit: The Dragonling proc is basically worthless. It misses alot on boss level mobs - only like 0.3% of my damage when I tested it.

#37 Exemplar

Exemplar

    The One-Eyed Man

  • • Guide Author
  • 1,810 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 12:39 PM

I think my rough math figured the Dragonling is about 200 DPS from its melee. The proc itself is not the reason to enjoy one.

I agree with Balhale. Dragonling is a great starter trinket until you can get the needed drops from dungeons - 600 hit and expertise (Haste, too) is nothing at which to sneeze. Then go for the Heroic trinkets for DPS purposes. Pick up a Coren's and hold it in your bag for iLevel purposes (faster/easier to reach LFR reqs). Grabbing any of the other Coren trinkets as greed and holding in your bag is also advantageous to game the iLvl requirement system, as long as you don't steal it from someone who needs it.

Oh, and I'm aware my spreadsheet doesn't have the starter PvP gear (I'm surprised no one has even commented on this in PM). Next release will have it. I filtered out PvP stats when I transcribed gear. However, the Contender gear is excellent beginning placeholders. The PvP stats appear to be zero budget, so you get the expected values of Secondary Stats. Not as good as Heroic dungeon gear, but excellent for propelling you into being able to LFG and better than many quest gear slots.

Finally - please take note of yesterday's hotfix. They removed the Honored rep requirements from Justice Point gear. You can now flat purchase (with sufficient points) the gear immediately, rather than ignoring it because you're better geared by the time you could gain sufficient rep. So please do double-check your JP vendors for raid starting gear.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

#38 anafielle

anafielle

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 49 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:47 PM

Wouldn't the PVP gloves be pre-raid BIS with the +5% to CS? Dreadful Gladiator's Scaled Gauntlets - Item - World of Warcraft

#39 Exemplar

Exemplar

    The One-Eyed Man

  • • Guide Author
  • 1,810 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:00 PM

Wouldn't the PVP gloves be pre-raid BIS with the +5% to CS? Dreadful Gladiator's Scaled Gauntlets - Item - World of Warcraft


Possibly, but not by a landslide. Compare those to which are 1 iLevel lower.
74 more Str and 68 more secondary stats on the blue.

Also the PvP necessary to earn epic gloves is a non-negligible timesink. For those who have school or work, spending that time on reputations or Heroics to gear overall is probably the better option. Raid gear comes quickly enough for those who raid.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

#40 anafielle

anafielle

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 49 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 09:04 PM

True fact, although I would have been able to convert JP into honor this evening.

However, it looks like they've quickly changed their minds; Bashiok just posted that Honor gear is coming down and JP gear is going up in ilvl:
Justice and Honor Gear Changes - MMO-Champion BlueTracker




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users