Jump to content


Photo

The Art of Combat (Version 1)


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
147 replies to this topic

#1 Pathal

Pathal

    Don Flamenco

  • • Guide Author
  • 340 posts

Posted 24 September 2012 - 11:28 PM

Note: Pathal has turned maintenance of the Combat guide over to Kirtar88; you can find the new guide here.

- Aldriana

I'm looking for someone who's been here before to take control of any of these threads. This opening post could be improved upon, and it's up to an ambitious individual to make that a reality.

Your job will be to collect and organize any relevant information for this spec, and to make sure it is up to date and accurate. If you're interested or have further questions, send me a PM.


Last updated: Oct 22, 2012

The most recent changes are in blue.

Information that is probably out of date is in maroon.

=Specs and Glyphs=
Spec

T15 - Shadow Focus is ideal for DPS.
T30 - No direct DPS increase.
T45 - Leeching Poison may boost DPS if it triggers procs like it did for FotF.
T60 - Preparation is best, but only when there is minor, to no movement during a fight. Shadowstep typically wins out otherwise.
T75 - Prey on the Weak when targets are stunnable. Irrelevant tier otherwise.
T90 - Up for debate.

Glyphs

Glyph of Adrenaline Rush is considered mandatory. It makes preventing energy capping immensely easier.

 1[/hr]

=Combat and Rotation=
Poisons

Instant Poison is now baked in to Deadly Poison. Your utility poison depends on what you need to get done.

Single-Target

Keep RvS up for every SS and Evisc/Rupture. Weaving Rupture is a DPS gain. Pooling before RvS can boost DPS. Storing CP's via Anticipation can increase DPS as well.

Refresh SnD with whatever CPs you have when <2s are left.

 1[/hr]

=Stat Weights and Caps=
These are sample stats weights according to Shadowcraft (commit 07a9119d9e042e4d3044f6a4c54ab7fba0cc73e9, Oct 20). The current script may require further optimizations which could sway data.

[table="head"]Stat | T14 EP
Agility | 2.74
Yellow Hit Rating | 2.40
Expertise Rating | 2.23
Haste Rating | 1.50
Mastery Rating | 1.22
Crit Rating | 1.02
White Hit Rating | 1.00

=Gearing=
OFFHAND ONLY: 1.8s daggers, and 2.6s axe/fist/sword/mace are exceptionally close in performance. However, 2.6s weapons appear to have a fraction of a % of an advantage. Try to keep a 1.8s dagger around for when you can't use Killing Spree optimally.

Best in Slot

This may change in the future as we better understand any changes to EP weights.

Best in Slot Gear
[table="head"]Slot | Item
Helm | NYF
Neck | NYF
Shoulders | NYF
Back | NYF
Chest | NYF
Wrists | NYF
Gloves | NYF
Belt | NYF
Legs | NYF
Boots | NYF
Ring 1 | NYF
Ring 2 | NYF
Trinket 1 | NYF
Trinket 2 | NYF
MH | NYF
OH | NYF

Set Bonuses

Not added.

Trinket EPs

All EPs are calculated with t13 BiS values from Shadowcraft, as seen above.

[table="head"]Name | EP
(heroic) (->haste) | 6,070.92
(heroic) | 5,934.50
(->haste) | 5,377.96
| 5,257.11
(heroic) | 5,076.65
(Darkmoon) | 4,881.43
(heroic) | 4,859.45
(RF) (->haste) | 4,763.54
(RF) | 4,656.47
(normal) | 4,498.61
(normal) | 4,304.59
(rep) | 4,304.59
(RF) | 3,986.76
(dungeon) | 3,965.41
(alchemy, 55s ICD?) | 3,935.95
(dungeon) | 3,883.55
(RF) | 3,813.44
(dungeon) | 3,592.66
(holiday) (->haste) | 3,265.25
(holiday) | 3,091.68

Gemming

Secondary stat gems are immensely stronger than they were in previous expansions.

Enchants

Not added.

 1[/hr]

=Macros=
Not added.

 1[/hr]

=Encounter Tips=
Tier 14

Not added.

 1[/hr]

=Thread Change Log=
[Sept 24, 2012] Initial Post.
[Sept 27, 2012] Trinket EPs.
[Oct 22, 2012] More Accurate EPs.

#2 Rfeann

Rfeann

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 99 posts

Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:30 PM

Here’s the >i450 trinket (plus the alchemy trinket) EP list at present, assuming no reforges, procs occur immediately whenever the ICD hits 0, and you have 100% uptime on your target for the duration of the proc. PvP trinkets not included; neither is the upcoming Brewfest trinket.

(heroic): 5942.65
(normal): 5264.32
(heroic): 5198.66
(heroic): 5032.47
(Darkmoon): 4934.88
(RF): 4662.85
(normal): 4606.72
(rep): 4457.84
(normal): 4457.84
(RF): 4082.57
(dungeon): 4067.29
(dungeon): 4049.09
(alchemy): 3951.56
(RF): 3801.26
(dungeon): 3669.88

These are all based on this crappy spreadsheet I threw together last night. Easy to crappily update as EP values are adjusted.

Stat and proc values are based on in-game tooltip notes. Relic of Xuen is the exception (thus the blue text); I couldn't access an in-game tooltip for it, so I'm going off the Wowhead numbers, which may not be accurate.

ICDs are based on tooltip notes in some cases, but usually it's from this Beta Classes thread in the official forums in which Ghostcrawler provided said info.

I've included all three incarnations of the Jade Bandit Figurine that appear in the database, but since it was reportedly a rare raid trash drop in the beta, it may well only have a single (i496) version in the actual game.

#3 kindath

kindath

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 71 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 01:38 PM

For the sake of completion,

Ghost Iron Dragonling - Item - World of Warcraft w/ hit/expertise/haste socketed: 3869.76

The proc, anecdotally, is ~3% of my damage. I can attempt to determine exactly how much damage it adds per proc, but I'd expect it to be roughly on par with the zen alchemist stone overall.

#4 Rfeann

Rfeann

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 99 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 02:57 PM

NB: Considering the Dragonling (and the Mists cogwheels) are all BoE and don't require engineering to equip, the numbers on it are probably a lot more relevant to the overall roguey population than the numbers on the alchemy trinket. Procs like these never scale with stats, right?

#5 Sackl

Sackl

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 27 September 2012 - 07:43 PM

@Rfeann

I bought the Ghost Iron Dragonling trinket today and purchased with my engineer the cogwheels (they're BoE!) - there is a note on them that you need 5xx points in engi to be able to use them, but I had no problems sending them to my rogue and building them into the trinket. I also got the stats, it's not for engi's only.

#6 Egészségére

Egészségére

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 26 posts

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:38 AM

Remember that you cant use expertise and hits EP when calculating gear value, since you're reforging excess hit/exp to haste.

#7 Rfeann

Rfeann

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 99 posts

Posted 28 September 2012 - 04:09 AM

That's assuming there's 1) excess hit/exp to reforge out of and 2) you're using the trinkets for that purpose, as opposed to reforging down to the caps with other gear that has hit/exp on it.

For the sheer sake of coming up with raw EP rankings for trinkets, it's best to treat them identically across the board -- which means assuming that no reforges will be made and that their stats are being optimally used. The new Shadowcraft engine, once it's available, will take care of the nuances of proper reforging; the trinket list I threw together was solely to help me get a very general sense for how trinkets shake out as I'm gearing up. As Jack Sparrow says, they're really more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

#8 johnydrama

johnydrama

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:11 AM

How gonna look EP for trinket from Brewfest BOSS ?Coren's Cold Chromium Coaster

#9 Tesen

Tesen

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:47 AM

That's assuming there's 1) excess hit/exp to reforge out of and 2) you're using the trinkets for that purpose, as opposed to reforging down to the caps with other gear that has hit/exp on it.

For the sheer sake of coming up with raw EP rankings for trinkets, it's best to treat them identically across the board -- which means assuming that no reforges will be made and that their stats are being optimally used. The new Shadowcraft engine, once it's available, will take care of the nuances of proper reforging; the trinket list I threw together was solely to help me get a very general sense for how trinkets shake out as I'm gearing up. As Jack Sparrow says, they're really more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.


Your first point is valid, or at least it could be early in this expansion. But reaching those caps is usually easy enough with reforging.

I strongly disagree with your second point. For me it makes no difference whatsoever if the expertise is comming from a trinket or from other gear. If haste is my nr 3 stat and stat 1 and 2 are stats with caps (hit/expertise) then they all get the EP value of stat 3. I'm not sure how shadowcraft handled this in Cataclysm, but thats how i set up my Pawn values for quick comparisions ingame.

If we compare the old trinkets Tia's grace to Left eye of Rajh we have the former with a superior effect and the latter with a better stat (Exp vs Mastery). Left eye of Rajh ranked higher in the trinket list, but if you could reach the expertise cap with either trinket then Tia's grace was a better trinket.

To assume that each trinkets stats will be optimally used is perhaps the simplest way of doing it, but not the best.

#10 Proioxis

Proioxis

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 4 posts

Posted 29 September 2012 - 01:50 PM

Will you be adding racial stats/values in the charts?

#11 Burken

Burken

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:18 PM

So according to these EPvalues we might actually start to gem all out Haste now?=p

#12 androxoid

androxoid

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 01 October 2012 - 10:22 AM

Last updated: Sept 27, 2012.

=Stat Weights and Caps=
These are sample stats weights according to Shadowcraft (commit 33b17d38532b52aac2cd8e7dc89d8133f39c6667, Sept 24). The current script may require further optimizations which could sway data.

[table="head"]Stat | T14 EP
Agility | 2.77
Yellow Hit Rating | 2.4953
Expertise Rating | 2.3198
Haste Rating | 1.6345
Mastery Rating | 1.1867
Crit Rating | 1.0759
White Hit Rating | 0.9348


So according to these EPvalues we might actually start to gem all out Haste now?=p



According to these weights 2 haste seems a lot stronger than 1 agi, so does that mean I should gem agi/haste in red and pure haste in yellow sockets?
And would that make Blacksmithing the strongest profession for Combat?

#13 Natteravnen

Natteravnen

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 01:12 AM

just start play rogue mop.
so can anyone tell me when to use KS ? and what skills to use at begging of fight ?
for example: ambush > 2points SnD > then RvS > then 2XSS > then Evisc >then use KS ? or use cooldown AR+SB
when to use KS and AR+SB ?
thanks ple tell me. i am new to the rogue .


• Stealth
• Shadowstep/Ambush
• Revealing Strike
• Sinister Strike
• Sinister Strike
• Slice and Dice
• Killing Spree
• AR/Trinket/SB


This should pretty much be the best :)

#14 exploid

exploid

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:16 AM

• Stealth
• Shadowstep/Ambush
• Revealing Strike
• Sinister Strike
• Sinister Strike
• Slice and Dice
• Killing Spree
• AR/Trinket/SB


This should pretty much be the best :)


Would it not be better to take one sinister strike after the slice and dice? To drain you of energy and activate 10% damage from bandit's guile.

#15 Emelious

Emelious

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 9 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:15 PM

How does have such a high ep value with a 45 sec icd and the stat weights of 2.77 for agi and 1.1867 for mastery? For me it's coming out to 4406.23

#16 MeckieH

MeckieH

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:16 PM

According to these weights 2 haste seems a lot stronger than 1 agi, so does that mean I should gem agi/haste in red and pure haste in yellow sockets?
And would that make Blacksmithing the strongest profession for Combat?


I would really like some clarification on this aswell. Absolutely none of the rogues in the top-guilds (I checked vodka/Method/Envy) have opted to gem 320 haste, but given the EP-values listed in this thread, 320 haste obviously comes out ahead.

#17 Rfeann

Rfeann

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 99 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:45 PM

How does have such a high ep value with a 45 sec icd and the stat weights of 2.77 for agi and 1.1867 for mastery? For me it's coming out to 4406.23


Ignore the BNet/Wowhead/WowDB tooltips; they're not correct. See post #6 in the Assassination thread.

#18 phup

phup

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 40 posts

Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:14 PM

I would really like some clarification on this aswell. Absolutely none of the rogues in the top-guilds (I checked vodka/Method/Envy) have opted to gem 320 haste, but given the EP-values listed in this thread, 320 haste obviously comes out ahead.


I am assuming the stat weights in the guide are with the current best guess for BIS gear. If I run a BIS rogue through simcraft, the stat weights are very much in line with what the guide has. However, if I run my 459 item level rogue through simcraft, agility is way stronger than the secondary stats (have yet to fix my gems though, luckily they're pretty cheap right now).

In fact, haste/crit/mastery are lower than AP for me at this point, making strength enchants stronger than the equivalent haste enchant, but I can't make myself go that far for min/max (the difference is small).

So assuming the sims are close to the truth, it will take a fair amount of gear upgrades before the secondary stat gems are clearly better than the agility gems, and right now, for someone in blues, agility gems are far superior.

#19 goongoon17

goongoon17

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 03 October 2012 - 04:01 AM

can anyone clarify the difference between the use of 1.8 dagger and 2.6 sword/axe/mace/fists on OH?

I know that the KS damage would be better off with dual wielding 2.6s, but energy generation from combat potency kinda confuses me.

On the energy generation, since 2.6s have slower atk speed but better proc, they're really supposed to be the same, but is it really?

#20 psypher

psypher

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:26 PM

So after trying to figure out why I am such a trash can rogue pulling sub par dps I analyzed all the top rogue parses from the raids. None of the combat spec rogues doing great dps use rupture at all. That should be removed from the rotation in this guide.

thanks




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users