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The Art of Combat (Version 1)


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#41 Pathal

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:27 AM

Alchemist's Flask - Item - World of Warcraft

It suffers the same datamining bug as every other trinket.

#42 xriotx

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:16 AM

This seemed too much overpowered of course... that was bugging me. Thanks for pointing this out, I thought this datamining bug was concerning only trinkets. My bad.

We don't have a particularly accurate modelling of Touch of the Grave right now. It's set up as an on use racial that deals a predetermined amount of spell damage every 2min. I'll see if someone else has the mechanical data for it now, just as soon as I find the time.


If I may ask, do you have any news about it ? I'm really curious about Touch of the grave (Undead racial) VS Epicurean (Pandaren racial) (if we ignore Orc's expertise bonus).

#43 Snowennelol

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 05:36 AM

can anyone clarify the difference between the use of 1.8 dagger and 2.6 sword/axe/mace/fists on OH?

I know that the KS damage would be better off with dual wielding 2.6s, but energy generation from combat potency kinda confuses me.

On the energy generation, since 2.6s have slower atk speed but better proc, they're really supposed to be the same, but is it really?


I was skeptical too, but the tests I've done so far they've come out fairly even, with 2.6 actually gaining more energy (this could just be random though); Therefore, due to the Killing Spree damage, I'm gonna say 2.6 is better for now, unless of course you find a dagger that's a tier above your current OH. I'm using x2. If you want proof I can compile a bunch of parses into one big picture for you.

Next topic,
T90 - Shuriken Toss, Versatility, Anticipation

I haven't seen anyone discussing it and T90 was up for debate, so let me argue for Anticipation. It comes off as obvious to me, and perhaps to others that Anticipation is the best choice and maybe that's why there isn't too much talk on it. To me, Anticipation isn't necessarily a DPS increaser, more of a DPS saver. While an infinite Redirect sounds pleasant, I don't feel like it's a DPS saver like Anticipation. I will explain what I mean by 'saver' in two situations and a third, awkward point:

Situation 1:
Energy capping may or may not have been an for you during Dragon Soul, depending on your gear, but for me (BIS), it just couldn't be helped in some areas during some fights (thank the WoW gods for new AdR glyph, if only we had it then). With this new glyph, you would have to try to energy cap in order to energy cap, that's how great it is. Cool, I don't energy cap, so what?

Well let's say Bloodlust goes off and we feel like hitting AdR, Shadow Blades and misc. DPS increasing abilities at the same time. Oh boy, you better hope you don't have to watch the boss for 12 seconds, because you're about to be generating a lot of energy and combo points. During this raging burst DPS phase, when you're at 4 combo points, your next ability, that will bring you to 5 combo points, will generate a 6th combo point. Anticipation will take this 6th combo point that would normally be wasted and set it to the side, so that after you Eviscerate or Rupture, you're given it back; This can stack up to 5. Depending when you pop all of your cooldowns you may or may not approach an energy cap during this rage phase. Let's say when I'm at that 6th combo point I'm also at 90 energy and going hot towards 100. I'll Sinister Strike two more times which will leave me at 5 combo points with 5 anticipation charges set to the side. In order to not energy cap and to save DPS, it is safe to speak in terms of 1-10 combo points, rather than 1-5.

Situation 2:
I don't know why you're in this situation, but that's why it's a hypothetical that could happen.
You're in a 5 man and DPS really sucks, so you're going to have to do quite a few DPS cycles. Okay, cycle's are going good, #1 on DPS, when 'ut oh'... [for some reason] you're at 5 combo points, 90 energy and Rupture and Slice and Dice are at 2-3 seconds and you don't want to over lap either of them, or lose time on either, like you would have had to pre-Anticipation. Sinister Strike to 7-9 combo points (whenever rupture/SnD are gonna run out) and refresh Rupture FIRST, then Slice and Dice. No wasted combo points, energy, (de)buff time, or DPS. You have to refresh Rupture first, because, just in case you didn't read, Anticipation points are only given to you after an offensive finisher. If you SnD first, the Anticipation charges will remain there and you may not be able to generate 6 combo points to refresh the 14 second buff (due to early expansion bad gear therefore bad energy regen), hence you lose your Anticipation charges, therefore lose combo points, therefore lose DPS.

Third Awkward Point: Crimson Tempest... There's something weird about Anticipation and Crimson Tempest. I'm not sure if it's a bug, of if it's normal and I'm completely missing something; However, I don't think that I am. Long story short, if you:
Crimson Tempest with n combo points and 0 Anticipation charges, you're awarded 0 (makes sense)
Crimson Tempest with n combo points and 1 Anticipation charges, you're awarded 2 combo points
Crimson Tempest with n combo points and 2 Anticipation charges, you're awarded 4 combo points
Crimson Tempest with n combo points and 3 Anticipation charges, you're awarded 5 combo points

n = any number of combo points, because I can have 5 combo points, and 2 Anticipation charges, recuperate, generate one combo point, Crimson Tempest with that one combo point, and be awarded 4 combo points. Why would you Crimson Tempest with one combo point? I don't know, it's just an example of what happens with this thing.

Anticipation charges award you double combo points for Crimson Tempest. Once you're at 3 combo points, it stops at 5. It does not overlap and give you a 6th (1 Anticipation charge). I don't know why you're awarded double, does anyone? Nothing mentions gaining bonus points when it comes to Crimson Tempest + Anticipation. So whether this mechanic is intended or not, AOE with Anticipation charges on hand will be a significant AOE DPS increase and cycle AOEing energy easier. I'm wondering if this works with Mutilate too, but Combat for life, so I don't care, someone else can try it.

Conclusion:
These are just three good reasons why I argue for Anticipation. I'm certain infinite Redirects are pleasant and useful, but combo points can be managed so you don't need to spam it, if there's a fight that needs it. I haven't even tried Shuriken Toss for PVE, because ... why? I'm only gonna see if it procs crippling poison for PVP.

PS,
Feels good to gem haste again :woop:

#44 Pathal

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:28 AM

The only information I can find right now is rumors of a 20s ICD, affected by PvP power, and no clear indication of how hard it hits for.

Maybe the SimC crew has the details.

#45 Orises

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:18 AM

These are just three good reasons why I argue for Anticipation.


Anticipation is also going to allow you pool CPs for times where you have damage buffs or there is a damage boost on the boss such as a higher state of Bandit's Guile, a trinket proc, a weapon enchant proc, a time when you need to break a shield with damage, etc. All other things being equal, why drop an eviscerate or rupture when you are in no insight or low insight when you can push it off to medium or deep insight? While this is a Combat thread, the mechanic applies elsewhere. Sub will want to pool CPs for Eviscerate Spam during FW. Assassination won't benefit from this as much since you won't want to use Envenom rapidly and overwrite your buff but obviously benefits that spec in the other usual ways. A fight would really need to introduce a level of target switching or time spent at range we haven't seen yet for the other talents to begin to approach the utility and quality of life Anticipation offers.

#46 Omanko

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 09:14 AM

Speaking of pooling Anticipation/Combo for higher levels of Insight... Has there finally been a mod written that tracks the "sub-charges" of Insight? I.e. how many more SS/RVS are actually needed to push the next level of Insight? I always found Insight to offer some nice wiggle room for player skill, but counting in my head during a complex encounter can be a bit taxing...

#47 atroxes

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 10:01 AM

Speaking of pooling Anticipation/Combo for higher levels of Insight... Has there finally been a mod written that tracks the "sub-charges" of Insight? I.e. how many more SS/RVS are actually needed to push the next level of Insight? I always found Insight to offer some nice wiggle room for player skill, but counting in my head during a complex encounter can be a bit taxing...


When you are at 5 combo points and you then build another one, you apply a buff on yourself called "Anticipation" which then stacks according to how many extra combo points you have saved up.

Using a simple Power Auras visual or any other addon that can customize how you see individual buffs, should get the job done for you.

#48 Fae

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 10:01 AM

I don't know about any mod (but I did not actually search for one), but I am sure you could implement this "charge" counting in WeakAuras. I am talking about Bandit's Guile here, not Anticipation (because I think thats what Omanko was asking for?).

#49 Omanko

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 12:47 PM

Yes, I was refering to Insight levels, which come from Bandit's Guile. Anticipation is easy, Insight is not!

#50 Hadouken

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:57 PM

Enchants



Head: No Longer Enchantable
Shoulders: – Crafted by Scribes
Chest:
Wrists:

Hands: (Combat if not capped)
(Assassination Only)
(Combat if Expertise capped and Subtlety)


Waist: - Crafted by Blacksmithers
Legs: - Crafted by Leatherworkers
Feet: (All Specs) OR or
Endgame:

#51 Slackerkgs

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:00 PM

Yes, I was refering to Insight levels, which come from Bandit's Guile. Anticipation is easy, Insight is not!


Take a look at Bandits Guile Helper, it shows how far you are into an insight level. I'm pretty sure you can remove the other numbers too, which are relatively useless.

Bandits Guile Helper - Rogue - World of Warcraft Addons - Curse

#52 nave

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:10 AM

Yes, I was refering to Insight levels, which come from Bandit's Guile. Anticipation is easy, Insight is not!


ForteXorcist can track insight levels for you ForteXorcist - Buffs & Debuffs - World of Warcraft Addons - Curse

#53 Omanko

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 08:19 AM

Thanks for the advice! I'm not sure though how Forte is supposed to track sub-levels - I have no trouble getting it to track the regular buff, but I see no way for it to track the hidden "in-betweens".

I really don't know why Blizzard had to make it so complicated. Was a stacking buff that ticks over into a new one at a certain number of stacks really too much to ask?

#54 Rfeann

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 04:14 PM

Hands: (Combat if not capped)

...

Feet: (All Specs) OR [ITEM][Enchant Boots: Greater Precision] (if not yellow hit capped)*


It's generally not the best idea to base enchant selection off of cappable stats. Reforging is the most efficient way to get to a stat cap, and allows far greater flexibility regarding which stats you sacrifice in order to get to that cap (e.g., exchanging a comparatively useless stat like crit). Enchanting or gemming is a backup measure during those relatively rare occasions when reforging can't get you there.

#55 Kanyeezy

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 05:31 PM

It's generally not the best idea to base enchant selection off of cappable stats. Reforging is the most efficient way to get to a stat cap, and allows far greater flexibility regarding which stats you sacrifice in order to get to that cap (e.g., exchanging a comparatively useless stat like crit). Enchanting or gemming is a backup measure during those relatively rare occasions when reforging can't get you there.


Very true, it's going to be more beneficial to use reforging as opposed to enchants to hit caps, and if you're struggling to hit these caps then I guess these enchants would be ideal but try to get better gear first =P.

#56 Onodrim

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:21 PM

There’ve been a few posts about how to start up your rotation, Killing Spree usage, Revealing Strike and T90. I’d like to offer my 2 copper.

Initiating the rotation
First off, in the posts I’ve read, I’d say Slice and Dice hasn’t been sufficiently prioritized. SnD is our single biggest passive source of damage, and it’s a dps gain to activate Slice and Dice sooner rather than later.

As such, the generic start-up of our rotation would look like this:

· Stealth
· Shadowstep
· Ambush
· Slice and Dice
· Revealing Strike
· Sinister Strike (up to 5 Combo Points)
· Rupture

> Normal rotation ensues.

However, there’s been some discussion regarding the use of Killing Spree. For some time, it was considered worthwhile to combine Killing Spree with Deep Insight. However, because of Restless Blades, you’d stand to gain from using Killing Spree as soon as the initial start-up has amassed you 5 combo points, like described above. Following that, you activate Adrenaline Rush, use the 5 Combo Points you’ve obtained, and start shaving off seconds of the cooldown of both Killing Spree and Adrenaline Rush.

So, in order to get the best out of Restless Blades, the generic start-up could arguably be modified to this:

· Stealth
· Shadowstep
· Ambush
· Slice and Dice
· Revealing Strike
· Sinister Strike (up to 5 Combo Points)
· Killing Spree
· Adrenaline Rush
· Rupture

> Normal rotation ensues.

The caveat here is that this *is* a generic list. Depending on the encounter, you may need to start up differently to fit the specifics of the encounter and objectives of your raid. Also, Vanish could theoretically be used right after you've activated Slice and Dice in order to weave in another Ambush. However, you'd have to use Vanish in a way that prevents you from energy capping, and thus it might be better used later on in the priority queue. Last disclaimer is that Rupture would obviously be substituted with Eviscerate in times of Blade Flurry.

Revealing Strike
Revealing Strike is relevant to two aspects of your damage output: Sinister Strike and your offensive finishing moves. As such, Revealing Strike isn’t a buff you need to maintain as strictly as Slice and Dice. It’s something you need to have up and running when the next thing you’re about to perform is either a Sinister Strike, an Eviscerate or a Rupture. If your next GCDs are spent on Recuperate, Blade Flurry, Shiv, Feint etc., then Revealing Strike is irrelevant.

T90
The above carries over into the discussion about our final tier talent. A few good points about the benefits of Anticipation have been made. It’s relevant during Shadow Blades and it allows for a bit more leniency concerning your upkeep of Slice and Dice and Rupture. Additionally, Anticipation also counteracts the RNG based nature of Revealing Strike in the sense that you don’t lose combo points if the Revealing Strike buff procs when you’re sitting at 4 combo points.

As for discussing Anticipation vs. Verstility, I’d say it’s encounter specific. In encounters where you’re able to dps the same target for most parts, Anticipation is likely to give you an advantage when it comes to optimizing your rotation. In encounters where there’s a lot of adds to take care of, Versatility will likely increase your overall dps. And considering how you can switch talents on the spot with Tome of the Clear Mind, I guess it becomes redundant to discuss whatever talent’s the best across the board. You could simply, in a matter of a couple seconds, adjust your spec to fit whatever situation you’re in.
They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time.

#57 Orises

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 09:27 PM

You will probably want to use Eviscerate in that opening sequence instead of Rupture. You are almost certainly going to energy cap when using Killing Spree and AR in quick succession, negating the benefit of using Rupture over Eviscerate.

#58 kindath

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 02:14 PM

With anticipation, you can get to Moderate Insight before using an offensive finisher. Would it be a DPS increase to delay the first KS and AR/SB until you get to moderate? That should leave you at 5 combo points and 3-5 charges of anticipation.

Vanish + shadow focus + ambush is best used in Deep Insight, both because of the high damage boost and also because you don't need to advance guile anymore.

As combat, I've been using anticipation to 'store' combo points for higher bandit's guile levels. Since bandit's guile is advanced by only generators and not finishers, in zero or light insight, I don't use finishers until Anticipation is at 4+ stacks. At moderate or deep insight, I then go back to normal and evisc at 5 CP.

Now that rupture updates as guile advances, I believe it would be optimal to apply rupture when your guile is low for the lower energy cost, and eviscerate when guile is high for the instant damage. But that's probably pretty obvious.

#59 Hanz0

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:10 PM

So, in order to get the best out of Restless Blades, the generic start-up could arguably be modified to this:

· Stealth
· Shadowstep
· Ambush
· Slice and Dice
· Revealing Strike
· Sinister Strike (up to 5 Combo Points)
· Killing Spree
· Adrenaline Rush
· Rupture

> Normal rotation ensues.


Almost there but not quite. You never want Slice and Dice before Killing spree in the opener simply because you do no white hits during killing spree meaning wasting a gcd and the 3.5s wasted uptime that you wont benefit from during killing spree makes the use of slice and dice before killing spree completely redundant.
Also you sinister untill you run out of energy regardless of how many combo points you would have at the end of the sinisters and after the killing spree if u had a more than a few lucky off hand energy procs it would be better to still use 1 sinister just to avoid capping.

Then the correct opener would be :

· Stealth
· Shadowstep
· Ambush
· Revealing Strike
· Sinister Strike (untill close to no energy)
· Killing Spree
· Sinister ( only if above 90 energy)
· Slice and Dice
· Adrenaline Rush
· Rupture

#60 Bonzoe

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:27 PM

... because you do no white hits during killing spree...


I am pretty sure this statement is false, unless Blizzard changed it for 5.0.x. I am at work and can't check it at the moment.




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