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Disc Priest - Mists of Pandaria


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#1 Rosin

Rosin

    Priests are great!

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:40 AM

= Introduction=

Terms Defined







AA: Archangel
AOE: Area of Effect
BT: Borrowed Time
CD: Cooldown
CoH: Circle of Healing
DA: Divine Aegis
DS: Divine Star
FDCL: From Darkness; Comes Light
GS: Guardian Spirit
HF: Holy Fire
HoH: Hymn of Hope
HoT: Heal over time
HP: Hit or Health Points
HPCT: Healing Per Cast Time
HPM: Healing per mana
HPS: Healing per second
HW: Holy Word
IF: Inner Focus
PI: Power Infusion
PoH: Prayer of Healing
POM: Prayer of Mending
PPM: Proc per minute
PS: Pain Suppression
PW: Power Word
RSTS: Random Secondary Targeting System
SS: Spirit Shell
SoR: Spirit of Redemption


Notable Changes


-Mana pools are fixed at 300k. The gnome racial and certain meta gems can increase this number.
-Intellect no longer affects regen, giving only spell power and critical strike chance.
-Spirit is mana regen for everyone (reminiscent of mp5).

-Atonement and Archangel are now baseline for discipline priests.
-Evangelism is now baseline for all priests.
-Divine Fury is a passive, baseline ability for all priests. (Guaranteeing chance to hit with Smite, Holy Fire, Penance and PW:Solace)

-Archangel no longer returns mana, but the healing bonus has been increased.
-Penance now triggers an Atonement heal if used offensively, and gives a single stack of Evangelism.
-Divine Hymn is no longer available to Discipline

-Our dispel mechanics have changed:
-Purify (our friendly dispel and cure disease together) has an 8 sec. cooldown.
-Dispel Magic (the offensive dispel) has no cooldown.
-Mass Dispel has a 15 sec. cooldown.

Archangel/Evangelism/Atonement (aka Smite Spam!)
-no longer restores mana
-healing buff increased
-penance (used offensively) grants a stack/atonement heal
-now default for disc


= Talents and Spells=


What should I spec


for quick reference, this is a good general-purpose build:
Mists of Pandaria - Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft


Starting with 5.0.4, none of these talents are considered required. We will be going over some of the talent choices in the next section to personalize your spec to suit your preferences and the needs of your raid.



Talent review



[TABLE](15) Control| Void Tendrils | Useful cc for questing
|Psyfiend |semi-random, single target fear
|Dominate Mind |mind control that works on everything but mechanicals. fun!

(30) Movement | Body and Soul | we are used to this, but now disc priests can spam it
|Angelic Feather | placed with targeting circle, useable by anyone
|Phantasm| pvp talent

(45) Mana| From Darkness, Comes Light| mana conservation rather than mana restore, made for single-target healing
|Mindbender| replaces shadow fiend (so if you don’t choose this you still get SF), shorter cooldown means better returns for fights that don’t divide up neatly for SF’s cooldown
|Power Word: Solace| disc priests will find this mechanic familiar; greatest potential for mana returns, greatest effort required

(60) Defense |Desperate Prayer |good old reliable
|Spectral Guise| pvp/questing
|Angelic Bulwark |could easily see situational use for certain fights; passive so you don't need to remember to use it; not triggered if a single blow takes you from 31% to 0 hp

(75) Throughput |Twist of Fate| another for certain situations/fight mechanics; does not benefit PW:S or SS
|Power Infusion | excellent throughput cooldown/mana savings; self-only now
|Divine Insight |very interesting, should be very useful for both holy and disc


(90) AOE | Cascade |good for spread out groups
|Divine Star |good for clumped groups, least expensive, shortest cooldown
|Halo |Highest healing potential, most expensive, longest cooldown
[/TABLE]



Cascade

Unlike the other two level 90 choices, Cascade is a targeted spell and does damage OR healing depending on your choice of target. For this reason it might be best to use a macro to ensure that your attempt to bounce Cascade off the tank does not end up wasted on the mobs. (see UI section) Cascade has no diminishing returns since the number of targets is fixed (15), and does not hit the same target twice. The healing is increased by the distance between bounces, and the bounces will favor targets farther away. As with most smart heals, pets are possible targets.




Divine Star
Divine Star acts rather like a boomerang, healing and damaging everything in its path. If you are moving (and boosted with Body and Soul, for example) while casting, Divine Star will form a V shape, covering more area. Properly used this spell is more mana efficient that PoH, and has the lowest mana cost and shortest cooldown of the level 90 talents. Remember that this spell is not targeted, but instead travels a path 24 yards in the direction you are facing. If there are mobs in range behind your intended targets, you can easily pull them. DS has diminishing returns after striking 6 targets.


Halo
Has the highest healing potential, but also the highest mana cost and the longest cooldown. The healing scales based on distance: increasing to a 'sweet spot' at 27 yards and then decreasing again. Some will find it helpful to use an addon specifically to assist in judging Halo's range. Halo deals both damage and healing, and effects have diminishing returns after 6 targets.







Originally posted by Blizzard

Cascade does a % of its max damage/healing based on linear distance between the source and target of the bounce. It does 40% of its maximum damage at 0yd, and 100% at 30+yd, scaling linearly between those two points (anywhere between 30yd and 40yd will give 100%). It prefers farther away targets when it bounces.

Halo’s damage scaling is… a bit more complex. Sometimes the formulae that are under the hood are extremely complex looking, because we build in several knobs that we turn to get the tuning where we want it. Halo is one of those cases. The easy to understand way to think of it is that the multiplier on the max damage/healing is 10% at 0yd, up to 40% at 17yd, spikes up to 90% at 22yd, 100% at 27yd, then down to 60% at 35yd. The intent is that it is weak on targets near you, but there’s a sweet spot in a ring from 20yd to 30yd from you, and that the edges of that ‘sweet spot’ are smooth. The actual formula (warning, may seem scary!) is… 0.5 * (1.01)^(-1 * (((Distance-25)/2)^4)) + 0.1 + 0.015*Distance. I’m sure someone can post a graph of that pretty quickly. One thing to note is that the max range is 30yd, but that it includes creature’s hit boxes, so the distance between the caster and a valid target may be slightly larger than 30yd, which is why the formula makes sense out to 35yd. Again, you absolutely do not need to understand any of that to benefit from the heal!









Spell and Ability Review


Archangel/Atonement/Evangelism

Casting Smite, Holy Fire or Penance (as damage) will give one stack of Evangelism and proc an atonement heal (a smart heal equal to 100% of the damage done (or 50% if it lands on you)).
Evangelism stacks decrease the mana cost and increase the damage done (and therefore the size of the atonement heals) of these spells. Spend the stacks on Archangel, and you get additional healing throughput for each stack you spent.
A conservative technique would be to stack evangelism and maintain the stack using glyphed (instant) Holy Fire on cooldown, while a more aggressive approach would be to also weave in Smite whenever possible to try to have a 5 stack each time Archangel becomes available.
Keep in mind that Archangel does not benefit Spirit Shell.
Atonement can still be an efficient form of low-damage spot-healing.



PW: Barrier
Barrier can be compared to a smaller, group version of pain suppression. Can no longer be glyphed for extra healing.

Binding Heal
Efficient heal if both you and your target need the healing, can also be used in threat-sensitive situations. Binding heal can no longer benefit from Inner Focus.


Dispel Magic
Now an offensive dispel only.

Divine Aegis
Critical heals from PoH
award bonus DA, in addition to the guaranteed proc.

Divine Aegis absorbs are 30% of the critical heal amount * Absorption Mastery. It continues to stack
when refreshed, and caps out at 40% of the priest’s total health. Multiple DA’s from different
priests do not stack, but instead create separate buffs which can each stack up to 40% of the casting
priest's health. Also, Divine Aegis will not produce a shield if
the full heal that would cause the DA is absorbed by a Death Knight's Necrotic Strike.



Fade
You may find yourself needing to heal before the tank has solid threat on
every mob. In this situation pre-fading is very useful. Cast fade immediately before you start healing. Waiting to fade until you
actually have the attention of one or more mobs can draw them away from the tank and cause
positioning issues. Also, remember that not only your initial threat but all the threat you generate
while faded is returned to you when the fade ends. Low-threat heals like binding heal may be called for in particularly delicate situations.

Grace
Grace is 10% per stack, reaching a maximum of 30% additional healing. This stacks multiplicatively with other healing bonuses for a very substantial increase to Disc single target healing

Holy Fire
It is important to note that the instant cast Holy Fire from Glyph of
Holy Fire does consume Borrowed Time and does not benefit from the
mana savings that Inner Will provides.

Holy Nova
Now only available as a glyph

Hymn of Hope
Hymn of Hope will restore 2% total mana per tick for 4 ticks and increase your mana by 15%. The first tick does not benefit from the mana increase, but subsequent ticks do.

Inner Focus
-now reduces mana cost of next heal (flash, greater, poh)
-100% crit chance
-don’t macro to everything, use strategically
-Binding heal can no longer benefit from Inner Focus.

Inner Will
Does not stack with movement enchants/gems.

Inner Fire
Now gives a 10% spellpower increase instead of flat amount, will scale very nicely with gear.

Mass Dispel
Now on a 15 sec cooldown, removes all harmful magical effects from allies and removes one beneficial effect from enemies.

Pain Suppression
Reduces all damage by 40% and reduces threat by 5%

Penance
Mana-efficient, single target heal, can be case while moving when glyphed. Benefits from Borrowed Time but does not consume it. Used offensively, it adds an Evangelism stack and produces an Atonement heal.

Purify
Now removes all harmful magic and diseases on an 8 sec cooldown.

Rapture

Originally Posted by Derevka on HowToPriest

Rapture - What it really means
Rapture has changed substantially in Mists of Pandaria. It still is a source of mana regen, however instead of regenerating mana based on our total mana pool, it is now regenerating based on our total spirit.

What Rapture provides Discipline isn’t necessarily “regen”, but when Power Word: Shield is used on Rapture’s cooldown, it provides a Shield at a very reduced cost-- and is exceptionally mana efficient.

At 90, with Inner Fire active, PW: Shield costs 6.1% mana or 18,300– with 10,000 spirit, attainable in the first Tier of MOP raiding, Rapture restore’s 15,000 mana. This means means the shield cost 3,300 mana.Exceptionally efficient regardless of how much it shields for. From a scaling perspective, this could put Discipline at a marked advantage, providing them with a “free PW: Shield and additional regen” once they reach (or break) 12,200 spirit. (The point where Rapture restores the full cost of PW: Shield).

One of the first things you should do as a Disc Priest regarding Rapture, is have some method of tracking Rapture-- be it from a Weak Aura, Power Aura, or other external tracking mod. Knowing when that regen CD is being reset is important information to us.

Casting PW: Shield, at least once during a Rapture CD(provided it is fully absorbed), is one of our most mana efficient methods of providing HPS. That said, it is important to keep in mind that casting PW: Shield multiple times within a Rapture CD simply reduces the efficiency. Think of it akin to an Arcane Mage spamming Arcane Blast, the more they cast it, the more expensive the net cost.





Shield Discipline
-Disc's Mastery. Increases the absorbs that all of your absorb mechanics can provide.


Spirit Shell
Your shells stack, building a bigger shell up to a cap based on the casting priest's health.
Does not benefit from archangel and inner focus’ guaranteed crit and does benefit from Grace and Inner Focus’ mana cost reduction.



Originally Posted by Derevka on HowToPriest

Spirit Shell scales exceptionally well from both Mastery and Crit. Each cast of a heal while Spirit Shell is active will be the same (barring throughput procs). The Spirit Shell calculation takes Mastery, Crit, and Divine Aegis creation into account and rolls it all up into a single absorb-- making this one of our most scalable heals in our arsenal. Spirit Shell scales linearly by Mastery as well as by the amount of critical strike chance you have. Additionally, when Spirit Shell is active, it essentially ignores the RNG aspect of Crit as it provides direct scaling based on your critical strike chance (guaranteed). (It does this by essentially looking at Crit as an aggregate stat, not as a RNG stat based on a single heal)

Spirit Shell's Calculation is as follows:
Non-POH Shell = Average Heal * (1 + Mastery %) * (1 + Crit %) * (1 + (Crit % * 0.30))
POH Shell = Average Heal * (1 + Mastery %) * (1 + Crit %) * 1.30

As you can clearly see, SShell's stat scaling is quite liberal, scaling crit linearly with the amount it absorbs; essentially guaranteeing crit chance to provide scaling to the heals cast when SShell is active. (as well as accounting for Divine Aegis).

Haste does not have a direct throughput increase to an individual cast of Spirit Shell, however it does allow you to cast faster while the Spirit Shell proc is active, and theoretically, create more Shells during a single Spirit Shell cooldown. Generally speaking, you should be able to fit in 6 GHeal/POH casts during Spirit Shell's uptime. (some haste and spell conditions might allow for upwards of 7). Haste scales Spirit Shell in a tiered fashion, given the fact that you must complete the cast when Spirit Shell's buff is active. If you cannot complete the cast when the buff is active, it is considered a regular heal. Once you get enough haste to complete that cast in the time allotted, then you can count it towards SShell scaling.



Void Shift
Swap health % with another target. If one of the players involved is below 25%, they will be healed to 25% (if both are below, the lowest health will be healed to 25%). A good combination with Binding heal and Desperate Prayer.



Spell Selection




single target healing

-pw:S for each rapture cooldown if target will take enough damage to fully consume the shield
-glyphed pom on cooldown
-build and maintain grace stacks
-build and maintain evangelism
-maintain renew
-penance on cooldown


aoe healing

-Barrier if needed
-Archangel
-PoM on cooldown, if there is ongoing damage to cause it to bounce
-PoH on groups
-PW:S to stabilize particularly low individuals
-DS/Halo/Cascade on cooldown
-PW:S and Renew are options for healing while moving



Glyphs




[TABLE]Major| |

Desperation | Glyph of Desperation - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Dispel Magic | Glyph of Dispel Magic - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Fade | Glyph of Fade - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Fear Ward | Glyph of Fear Ward - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Holy Fire | Glyph of Holy Fire - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Holy Nova | Glyph of Holy Nova - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Inner Fire | Glyph of Inner Fire - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Inner Focus (disc) | Glyph of Inner Focus - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Inner Sanctum | Glyph of Inner Sanctum - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Leap of Faith | Glyph of Leap of Faith - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Levitate | Glyph of Levitate - Spell - World of Warcraft| handy for leveling and questing
Mass Dispel | Glyph of Mass Dispel - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Penance (disc) | Glyph of Penance - Spell - World of Warcraft|you will never want to go back
Power Word: Shield | Glyph of Power Word: Shield - Spell - World of Warcraft|no longer adds a heal; better for stabilizing individuals than pre-shielding
Prayer of Mending | Glyph of Prayer of Mending - Spell - World of Warcraft|boost to single-target healing;using with Divine Insight could 'waste' the extra bounce
Psychic Scream| Glyph of Psychic Scream - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Purify | Glyph of Purify - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Reflective Shield |Glyph of Reflective Shield - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Renew | Glyph of Renew - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Scourge Imprisonment| Glyph of Scourge Imprisonment - Spell - World of Warcraft|
SW: Death | Glyph of Shadow Word: Death - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Smite | Glyph of Smite - Spell - World of Warcraft|


Minor| |
Borrowed Time (disc) |Glyph of Borrowed Time - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Confession | Glyph of Confession - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Holy Resurrection | Glyph of Holy Resurrection - Spell - World of Warcraft|
Shackle Undead |Glyph of Shackle Undead - Spell - World of Warcraft|[/TABLE]




= Item Enhancement=


Stats and Reforging




Originally Posted by Derevka on HowToPriest

First it is very important to keep in mind that the budget for secondary stats is DOUBLE that of primary stats. This means an item that has a budget for 1 point of Intellect would have an equivalent budget of 2 Spirit, Mastery, or Haste. This is clearly illustrated by looking at hybrid gems.

Not all items (Elixirs, Potions, Foods) show this, so favoring secondary stats that are not double of primary could be placing yourself under budget.

A) Spirit - this is our primary regen stat, even for Discipline. Intellect no longer increases our regen, and only affects our spellpower and critical strike chance, with this in mind spirit will be critical to our regen. Each point of spirit is worth roughly 0.56/mp5. Fresh 90’s will want to stack as much spirit as possible until they reach a level of regen that is comfortable for their gameplay, and then pare back introducing throughput stats in its place.

B) Haste - haste reduces our cast time, and increases the speed at which Heal over Time spells tick and how fast your channeled spells are completed. With enough haste, you can add additional ticks. A breakdown of haste ratings for each spell affected is available here. For every 425 haste rating you have, you gain 1% haste.

C) Mastery - As Discipline we have innately 20% Shield Discipline. Mastery scales 1 Mastery per 600 Mastery Rating and then we gain 2.5%, per Mastery. Or more simply put, as Disc for every 300 Mastery Rating, your Shield Discipline increases by 1%.

D) Crit - Heals when they crit, heal for an additional 100%, and as Discipline trigger Divine Aegis. However, crits can be RNG and consistency can be important to a healer. Divine Aegis is also affected by Mastery, so Crit's scaling is also indirectly affected by Mastery's scaling. Fundamentally, Discipline's critical heals are some of the best scaled critical heals in the game.

What should you stack and reforge? A lot of this really depends on your spell breakdown: what you are casting, how frequently, and how effective it is.

Stat priority is very difficult to pin down for Priests as we have such a wide arsenal of spells to choose from, and even running Simcraft or other simulations our stat weights can swing and vary wildly. The most important thing to keep in mind when running simulations is: your spell breakdown on a sim should mirror your spell breakdown on your logs. If it doesn't, you run the risk of tilting stats that favor abilities you are never using!

Your Basic Secondary Stat Priority Should Be:

1. Spirit up to the point you are comfortable with regen
2. Mastery given its direct impact to PW: Shield, DA, and Spirit Shell (See the Spirit Shell section of this guide for more information)
3. Crit and Haste are of similar priority, and are roughly equal and can vary based on spell usage and healing role.
Spirit, especially early on, will be the go-to stat for all healers since we will need to learn how to manage mana in the new world of Fixed Mana Pools.

Mastery is mathematically Disc's most powerful stat in terms of scaling. A good deal of this contribution is thanks mostly to the introduction of Spirit Shell. Spirit Shell should be a large contributor to your healing output. Mastery has a direct scaling affect on this ability, as well as PW: Shield and Divine Aegis-- key spells in our toolkit.

Disc does not have nearly as many discrete haste breakpoints that Holy does. The only breakpoint healing spell Disc has is Renew. Renew, while still a powerful spell is not as much of a staple in the Discipline arsenal. When Tank Healing, Renew should be maintained on the Main Tank, and can be cast for Raid Healing when on the move. It is powerful for Holy due to the fact that Holy has access toRapid Renewal. Unfortunately, as Discipline, we do not have access to Rapid Renewal.

That said, Haste is still a valid stat for disc as it will shorten cast time of our healing spells and provide benefit to some of our regen abilities. (HOH, Fiend, MB, and Solace). The "priority" listed above should be considered a loose system, as a good deal of it will vary dramatically based on your spell usage. I urge all priests to look at their healing logs, and determine what spells are representing the largest portions of their output and then consider which stats benefit most from them.

Crit, while an RNG stat has a direct impact to Discipline by enabling Disc Priests to reliably create Divine Aegis bubbles as well as providing a linear scaling factor in Spirit Shell-- while Haste, in terms of Spirit Shell has much more tiered scaling.





Haste breakpoints



Posted Image


Posted Image





Spreadsheet



Valen’s priest spreadsheet

Valen's Priest Calulations


Enchants


[TABLE]Shoulder |Crane Wing Inscription| Crane Wing Inscription - Item - World of Warcraft
|Greater Crane Wing Inscription| Greater Crane Wing Inscription - Item - World of Warcraft



cloak | Superior Intellect| Enchant Cloak - Superior Intellect - Spell - World of Warcraft
chest |Mighty Spirit |Enchant Chest - Mighty Spirit - Spell - World of Warcraft
|Glorious Stats| Enchant Chest - Glorious Stats - Spell - World of Warcraft
feet |Pandaren’s Step| Enchant Boots - Pandaren's Step - Spell - World of Warcraft
|Greater Haste| Enchant Boots - Greater Haste - Spell - World of Warcraft

hands |Greater Haste | Enchant Gloves - Greater Haste - Spell - World of Warcraft
|Superior Mastery| Enchant Gloves - Superior Mastery - Spell - World of Warcraft

off-hand| Major Intellect |Enchant Off-Hand - Major Intellect - Spell - World of Warcraft
wrist| Mastery| Enchant Bracer - Mastery - Spell - World of Warcraft
|Super Intellect | Enchant Bracer - Super Intellect - Spell - World of Warcraft

||
weap| Windsong| Enchant Weapon - Windsong - Spell - World of Warcraft
|Jade Spirit| Enchant Weapon - Jade Spirit - Spell - World of Warcraft[/TABLE]

Originally Posted by Derevka on HowToPriest

Weapon Enchants are tricky. If you are in desperate need for mana regeneration, have gemmed and raidbuffed yourself for spirit, a number of people are considering using Heartsong Enchant for an average static value of ~108 spirit. That being said, is 108 spirit worth more than what Jade Spirit's int proc can provide you or what Windsong's secondary stat proc can provide you--- NO.

According to final clarity from Blizzard, Jade Spirit equalized, should provide 396 intellect, and additionally has a 750 spirit proc when you proc the spell under 25% mana. (which results in ~45 spirit equalized, assuming you are under 25% mana for 25% of the fight). This is using the 12 second buff duration, and 50 second ICD and assuming you proc it as soon as it comes off CD.

Windsong is a bit trickier to evaluate since it can provide three possible buffs: 1500 of either Crit, Mastery, or Haste. Each has its own ICD, and multiple buffs can be active on a player at one time. It has a 1PPM, with a 1 sec CD between each individual stat proc. This puts each stat with ~20% uptime, which means the enchant is roughly worth 300 of each Mastery, Crit, and Haste.

At first glance it seems we should be considering debating the potency of secondary stat scaling or raw spellpower scaling. This answer may depend on your healing style. The enchant is about in line with the 1:2 ratio that primary:secondary stats have in Mists. Ultimately, its about a wash and you should be asking yourself "is gaining 429 int worth 900 total of secondary stats?".




Gems


Gem choice is based on how much you prioritize spirit and your haste breakpoint goals. Remember that gems have double the budget for secondary stats. (compare with ) Socket bonuses that provide a valuable stat should be met unless breaking the bonus provides greater value.



[TABLE]Brilliant Primordial Ruby | |
Brilliant Pandarian Garnet | |
||
Purified Imperial Amethyst | |
Purified Roguestone | |
||
Reckless Vermilion Onyx | |
Reckless Tiger Opal | |
Artful Vermilion Onyx | |
||
Quick Sun’s Radiance | |
||
Energized Wild Jade | |
Zen Wild Jade | |

||
Meta | no longer have equiped gem requirement to activate bonus|

Revitalizing Primal Diamond | |
Ember Primal Diamond | |
Burning Primal Diamond | |
[/TABLE]


Originally Posted by Derevka on
HowToPriest


Based purely on regen and evaluating just the meta’s unto themselves, the Revitalizing Primal Diamond is worth ~300 spirit more than the Ember Primal Diamond (varying depending on which Regen Talent you choose at Level 45). To decide what meta you’ll want to use, you first want to ask yourself how your mana regen is working for you and to work backwards from there.

If regen is a your primary concern, and you are gemming full spirit, you simply would gem into the Revitalizing Primal Diamond. (Spirit, spirit, more spirit!)

If regen is important, but you want to begin to incorporate more throughput, and you have 2 blue sockets with Purifieds in them. You would want to use the Ember Primal Diamond and change the Purifieds to Sparklings to slowly shift to more throughput yet still maximize your regen; you'll net ahead in both Spirit and Int. As you need less and less, spirit you can start replacing your basic gems with pure throughput or spirit/throughput hybrid gems.

If throughput is a primary concern for you, and regen secondary, use the Ember Primal Diamond and gem your gear with primarily throughput or spirit/throughput hybrid gems.

If throughput is a primary concern, and regen tertiary, use the Burning Primal Diamond and gem your gear with primarily throughput or spirit/throughput hybrid gems.

Transitioning From Regen to Throughput:
As you gear up and become more and more comfortable (and able) to sustain your own regen, you should look to changing your meta gem first as it can smooth out your transition from pure regen gemming and gearing to more throughput focused strategies.







Consumables



Food


[TABLE]steamed crab surprise |300spi | Steamed Crab Surprise - Item - World of Warcraft |
Pearl Milk Tea | 200mast |Pearl Milk Tea - Item - World of Warcraft| available from vendor, usable at 90
Mogu Fish Stew |300int | Mogu Fish Stew - Item - World of Warcraft|
Braised Turtle | 275int| Braised Turtle - Item - World of Warcraft|
Fire Spirit Salmon |275spi | Fire Spirit Salmon - Item - World of Warcraft|
Swirling Mist Soup | 250int | Swirling Mist Soup - Item - World of Warcraft|
Shrimp Dumplings | 250spi| Shrimp Dumplings - Item - World of Warcraft|
Roasted Barley Tea | 100mast| Roasted Barley Tea - Item - World of Warcraft|available from vendor, usable at 85 [/TABLE]



Each specialization can make Banquets. Eating a banquet will provide you with 250 of a primary stat. If you have learned that banquet’s specialty, you will gain 300 of that school’s specialization.
This means that if you learn the Way of the Steamer (to make spirit food) and eat from a Banquet of the Steamer, you will get 300 spirit. Eating from any other banquet will give you 250 intellect.
If you want to be assured of 300 stats of your choice without worrying about what banquet will be dropped, be sure to bring your own food.


Flasks


[TABLE]Flask of Falling Leaves | Flask of Falling Leaves - Item - World of Warcraft|1000spi
Flask of the Warm Sun| Flask of the Warm Sun - Item - World of Warcraft|1000int[/TABLE]

Potions


[TABLE]Potion of Focus | Potion of Focus - Item - World of Warcraft| new potion of concentration
Potion of the Jade Serpent | Potion of the Jade Serpent - Item - World of Warcraft | 4000 int
Master Mana Potion | Master Mana Potion - Item - World of Warcraft | 30k mana[/TABLE]






= Addons and UI=

Macros



Smite macros

#showtooltip smite
/cast [harm] [target=targettarget] Smite


#showtooltip Smite
/cast [@mouseovertarget, harm] [@mouseover, harm] [@targettarget, harm] [harm] Smite

Cascade macros


/cast [help] Cascade

/cast [@mouseovertarget, help] Cascade


Unit frames


COMING SOON


Auras


COMING SOON


Other Addons


one of the options for tracking Rapture:
Ingela's Rapture - Priest - World of Warcraft Addons - Curse


specifically for maximizing Halo:
HaloPro - Priest - World of Warcraft Addons - Curse





-

May the New Year be full of peace and exhilaration, in just the right amounts, at just the right time.


#2 sylverfyre

sylverfyre

    Glass Joe

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 03:46 PM

On gems:

Now, Int (and other primary stats, Agility and Strength) is penalized on gems by 50%. As such, should we be considering a more Blue-color orientation with our gems, focusing on Spirit (which is not penalized)?

Brilliant Primordial Ruby: 160 INT
Sparkling River's Heart: 320 SPI

I'm proposing - Red sockets = Purified (80 INT 160 SPI), Blue sockets = Sparkling (320 SPI), yellow sockets = Energized or Zen Wild Jade (160 Mastery or Haste, 160 SPI)

Obviously this will change based on demand for mana regen vs. throughput changes, but classically, early in an expansion is when regen is the tightest. Additionally, INT is no longer a regen or mana pool stat, further lowering its relative value to healers in addition to this 50% nerf.

#3 Polopretress

Polopretress

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 65 posts

Posted 26 September 2012 - 01:23 PM

Basically the fact that secondary stats provide you twice of what you can have with intel does not mean that intel is penalized by 50%.

To understand what you win on each stat, it is necessary to see the improvement you can have for the same amount of stat (ie : +200 inte , +200 haste etc....)

On MoP, same amount of secondary stats like haste, mastery and critical has less impact on throughput than the same amount on intel (it was already the case on previously but on Mop, the difference is bigger)
That means that , to compare with Cata perimeter, haste, mastery & critical could be considered as tertiary stats since their improvment on HpS is poor for the same amount of point stat.

The difference, you can have now on Gems is only to give a compensation of the difference between primary and secondary stats because with no compensation, everybody would used gem full intel everywhere.
The compensation is not completly done but seems to be suffisant with the gem bonus validation.

To come back now on comparaison between intel and spirit gems. i think we cannot conclude that if point of spirit is higher than intel , then we must used spirit gems to avoid the lost of point stats.
This choice is only driven by your capability to sustain your mana regen v/s your mana consumption.

#4 sylverfyre

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 04:12 PM

Well, as far as when to add int vs. when to add spirit, if you're somewhere in the middle of a switch from a spirit-oriented gearing to a throughput-oriented gear setup, it seems like gems are the LAST things you change from spirit to int. Change your food and your flask first, because those are giving you 1:1 in the int vs. spirit options. There's other options that give you better tradeoffs than 2 spirit vs. 1 int.

Disc priests, moreso than other healers, can choose to dump large amounts of additional mana into effective healing because we have the option of pre-healing, ESPECIALLY with Spirit Shell. We're less susceptible to wasting mana as overheal due to absorb mechanics (obviously, we're not immune, because if a shield never gets used up before it expires, it's the same as overheal.)

I don't know the throughput values for mastery vs. int, because it's somewhat based on how much int and mastery you currently have, but I wouldn't be surprised if 2 mastery ends up clearly ahead of 1 int specifically on absorb effects (not necessarily on overall throughput).

Hmm... Idea for graph - graphing how big is POH [counting absorb] for X int and Y mastery rating.

#5 Illowyn

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 02:49 AM

Hey Guys,

Been doing some research depending Disc Priests now because i felt like we are a lil left behind... I'll get to that later n first want to check something with you. Apparently Spirit Shell does not benefit from crit as it is now and a GM couldn't tell me if its a bug or intended. If its intended this way it devalues crit by a large margin depending on the usage of spirit shell. Personally i wouldn't use it at all unless i know the encouter gives me time to utilize it properly.

Another thing i came upon when testing was that PoH does not "double Aegis" anymore. In Cata - when PoH made a critical hit - that target got the usual 30% Aegis PLUS the crit value Aegis which resulted into a HUGE Aegis (20k crit -> 6k + 6k Aegis). Now when i crit with around 30k PoH i "only" get a ~10k Aegis. As well the GM couldn't tell if it was by accident or intended to nerf this.

I will post my results of my testing tomorrow since its all hand written and its a full list of Spells, mana usage, coefficient, base value, estimated Value at 20k SP, HPM, HPS etc...

I will add some thoughts about Stat weigths tho to at least post something useful ;)

As a base for my calculations i used PoH since its our spammable, high HPS AoE spell with a pretty low coefficient:

PoH coeff = 67.1%, base value 6766 - 7148 (~6975)
--> 100 / 67.1 = 1.49
--> 149 SP to increase Heal of PoH by 100

INT: 1790 Int = 1% crit and 1790 SP => 1201.342 PoH Power + 1% Crit (= 1% sustained HPS + 36% Aegis = 1.36% HPS ) [1.3 + (0.3*0.2)] (20 Mastery, the 1% crit HPS is to be treated carefully since its still RNG)

--> 1201.342/6975 = 0.172 = 17.2%
--> 1790 / 17.2 = 104.07 = 1% HEAL
--> 1790 / 1.36 = 1316.176 = 1% HPS
--> 1316.176 /104.07 = 12.65

--> 1316 Int = 12.65% HEAL + 1% HPS
--> 12.65% / 2.5 (casttime) = 5.06% HPS
--> 1316 Int = 6.06 % HPS increase
--> 1316Int / 6.06 = 217.16 Int = 1% HPS increase

--> 100% / 217.16 = 0.46% ==> 1 Int = 0.46% HPS

I randomly set 1 Int = 1 PP (PoH Power)


Now thats for the basis :-) With these values i can work now:

425 haste rating = 1% haste
600 crit rating = 1% crit
300 mastery rating = 1% shield mastery

HASTE

1% haste for PoH = 2.5/1.01 = 2.475 (casttime with 1% haste)
--> 6957/2.5 = 2782.8
--> 6957/2.475 = 2810.91
--> 2810.91 - 2782.8 = 28.11 = 1% HPS
--> 425 / 217.16 = 1.96
--> 1.96 haste rating ^= 1 Int ==> 1 haste = 0.51 PP

CRIT ( RNG factor not included! )

600 crit = 1.36% HPS increase
--> 441 crit = 1% HPS increase
--> 441/217.16 = 2.03
--> 2.03 crit rating ^= 1 Int ==> 1 crit = 0.49 PP

MASTERY

300 Mastery = 1% Shield Mastery (3 Things its used for: Aegis, PWS, Spirit Shell)

Aegis: 1% mastery = 1.01 * 0.3 = 0.303 ==> 0.3% Aegis increase!

--> 6957*1.3*1.2 = 10852.92 (Heal + Absorb)
--> 10852.92 - 6957 = 3895.92 (Absorb with 20% mastery)

--> 6957*1.3*1.203 = 10880.05
--> 10880.05 - 6957 = 3923.05 (Absorb with 21% mastery)

--> 3923.05 - 3895.92 = 27.13 (absolute increase of Absorb)
--> 27.13 / 10852.92= 0.0025 ==> 0.25%

--> 0.25% / 2.5 (casttime) = 0.1% HPS

As long as mastery multiplies like this to Aegis its pretty useless!


PWS: 1% mastery = PWS absorbed amount * 1.01 ; PWS base = 19428, coeff: 1.871

Assuming 10k Spellpower:
--> (19428+1.871*10000) = 38138
--> (19428+1.871*10000)*1.2 = 45765.6
--> (19428+1.871*10000)*1.21 = 46146.98
--> 46146.98 - 45765.6 = 381.38

--> 381.38/38138 = 1%
--> 381.38/1.5 (gcd) = 254.2533
--> 254.2533/45765.6 = 0.0055 ==> 0.55% HPS

--> 381.38/1.304 (gcd with Borrowed Time) = 292.4693
--> 292.4693/45765.6 = 0.0064 ==> 0.64% HPS


Spirit Shell: Pretty much works the same as PWS. Lets assume a 10k PoH

--> (10000+3000)*1.2 = 15600
--> (10000+3000)*1.21 = 15730
--> 15730 - 15600 = 130

--> 130/2.5 = 52
--> 52/15600 = 0.0033 ==> 0.33% HPS

Now for the PP Values: if it were only for PoH the PP for mastery would be:

--> 300 / 0.1% = 3000 mastery
--> 3000/ 217.16 = 13.815
--> 13.815 mastery ^= 1 Int ==> 0.072 PP

PWS:

--> 300 / 0.64% = 486.75 mastery
--> 486.75/ 217.16 = 2.24
--> 2.24 mastery ^= 1 Int ==> 0.446 PP

Spirit Shell:

--> 300 / 0.33% = 909.09 mastery
--> 909.09/ 217.16 = 4.19
--> 4.19 mastery ^= 1 Int ==> 0.239 PP

copy pasted the last part since its the same calculation ;) But OK, Now with these Values its still really hard to figure out a good Overall since its mostly depending on playstyle. I for my part usually play AA / A and rarely use shield for more than rapture proc or emergencies. But again, since this whole calculation is based on PoH spam it might fit a lot of people.

I think this is a pretty good estimate to get good values for haste and crit, depending on playstyle. For Mastery i would go as far as to check logs of the own playstyle and compare the minutes spent with PWS / Spirit shell and the other spells. for my playstyle i chose a value of 15:1 Heal vs Shielding, thus my PP for mastery would be 0.0048 and thus i try to not get mastery on my gear at all and focus mostly on haste and spirit (crit is good as well but i prefer a fast cast).

Im sorry for the long post (my first one as well ^^) and/or for my weird english. I usually don't post in forums but i wanted to share this stuff with other ones since there isnt any math on here yet... If anyone finds mistakes or errors please tell me or write here with correction. I Hope tho that everything is correct and helpful :)

Its late now so.. good night ;)

Illo

*edit*

OK i just saw the formula for spirit shell..

Non-POH Shell = Average Heal * (1 + Mastery %) * (1 + Crit %) * (1 + (Crit % * 0.30))

POH Shell = Average Heal * (1 + Mastery %) * (1 + Crit %) * 1.30

So it DOES scale with crit, it just doesnt "crit" but is a constant increase :)

#6 Polopretress

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:55 AM

Apparently Spirit Shell does not benefit from crit as it is now and a GM couldn't tell me if its a bug or intended. If its intended this way it devalues crit by a large margin depending on the usage of spirit shell. Personally i wouldn't use it at all unless i know the encouter gives me time to utilize it properly

Critical stat is already included in the formula of SS.
That is why when you cast under SS, you have no critical effect on some cast.
Read the section : "Spell and Ability Review" on the first memo , it is well describe.
If you do not use, you miss 40% of the Disc powerful.

Another thing i came upon when testing was that PoH does not "double Aegis" anymore

It appears that you discover a lot of things which are known since long time.
The double aegis of PoH has been removed to avoid too much power of absorb for the Disc spec.

Actually, with SS, aegis and PW:S , the total of quantity of absorb can reach more than 80% of your score. It is enough strong.

i used PoH since its our spammable

PoH is not spammable anymore. Use SS when high damages are on the raid or on the tank.



All the calculation that you have done seems to be wrong because you have do not take the good methodology.

For example ; you wrote
PoH coeff = 67.1%, base value 6766 - 7148 (~6975)
--> 100 / 67.1 = 1.49
--> 149 SP to increase Heal of PoH by 100

It is wrong. we have to integrate also the critical and mastery effect.
Good methodoly is to take the complete formula of PoH and move one parameter (1 stat) to study the improvment done with the same amount of point stats.
Then normalization with INT like you have done can be done to compare stat.


Also, SS and PW:S have the same scaling for mastery since there fomulas are the same on mastery effect.
POH Shell = Average Heal * (1 + Mastery %) * (1 + Crit %) * 1.30

When you Study the improvment when you add mastery, it is the same that to write
%improvement = (POH shell with mastery2 - POH shell with mastery1) / POH shell with mastery1 = (%mastery2 - %mastery1)/%mastery1

%improvement PoH Shell = %mastery added / %mastery1


To compare with PWS = (Base value + Coef * SP)* (1 + Mastery %)= Average absorb* (1 + Mastery %)
%improvement = (PWS avec mastery2-PWS avec mastery1) / PWS avec mastery1 = (%mastery2 - %mastery1)/%mastery1

%improvement PW:S = %mastery added / %mastery1

same result !



don't know the throughput values for mastery vs. int, because it's somewhat based on how much int and mastery you currently have, but I wouldn't be surprised if 2 mastery ends up clearly ahead of 1 int specifically on absorb effects (not necessarily on overall throughput).


It is completly depending on the distribution of the spells used.
For example , except SS and PW:S & PoH, mastery will be too low to compare it with INT (maybe a factor of 15 to 25 !!!)
For SS and PWS, il will be less that 2 and more than 7 for PoH.

#7 Illowyn

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:10 PM

Thanks for the input! But do the mistakes in the methodology change the outcome? i mean despite spirit shell and pw:s i still consider mastery a weak stat. Since SS has a max uptime of 25% you still need to do most of your healing with "normal" spells and pw:s costs far too much mana to make most of your healing with it.

Do you think i should stack mastery for the sole purpose of pushing my pw:s and SS?

#8 Havoc12

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 03:45 AM

Aegis, PWS and spirit shell together make up 60-65% of disc healing. All these scale linearly with mastery.

#9 Polopretress

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:55 PM

But do the mistakes in the methodology change the outcome?

No. conclusion is same. Mastery is strong for these spells.

Do you think i should stack mastery for the sole purpose of pushing my pw:s and SS?

As Havroc wrote, the distribution of the spells in your gameplay is pushing mastery to be better than critical and haste.(it will depend on the % done for SS and PWS because with the other spell , mastery is useless compare to others stats.
But Critical has a good scaling on SS and "normal spells"

That means that ,roughly, haste, critical and mastery are very closed each other in term of efficiency (far away from INTEL which is stronger than it has never been since beginning of wow)

If you consider that most of your effective healing is done when SS is activated, then rush mastery.
Second stat will be critical (and more if you use SS on the tank with direct spell like GH)
Of course, it will be necessary to avoid to loose absorb when SS will fade because in that case, mastery stat will not be efficient enough as it is strong only on SS (and PWS)

#10 Havoc12

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 02:37 AM

Be warned that PoH was nerfed sometime in the beta. It no longer applies aegis on crit. Thus the crit multiplier for PoH is now exactly two and does not increase with mastery. Hence unlike other disc spells PoH scales just two-fold with crit.

In other words crit is now a pretty terrible stat for disc. It increases PoH aegis only slightly and it does not affect pws.

The formula for PoH currently appears to be

Base*(1+0.3*(1+mastery))*(1+crit)

#11 Omanko

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 09:18 AM

Given that Haste usually affects a less substantial part of our output than Mastery, does that essentially mean we stack Mastery? I recall a time when we strove for a sort of "balance", but I'm not sure how it is now. Looking at the distribution of healing sources in our output, it does seem like absorption effects come out on top by a fair margin.

What does that mean for INT, though? Given how it no longer increases our regen, are we gemming straight Mastery, or Mastery/Spirit if we need regen? Are INT/Mastery gems even a consideration at this point, not to mention INT/Spirit?

#12 Genzen

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 06:14 PM

Hello,

I was browsing the healing forum on the official wow forums, and in a thread related to priest healing (specifically, the upcoming 25% buff to PoH/PoM), someone linked to a blog regarding the value of Spirit vs Int, and, supposedly, why stacking Spirit is not [necessarily?] the best option to prevent running out of mana.

The blog is here: Why More Spirit is not the Answer to your Healing Problems | It's Dangerous to Go Alone

The author initially discusses from a Druid's perspective, but in the comments, farther down the list, the discussion turns to Discipline Priests, and specifically focuses on Rapture returns. Beginning of Priest discussion here.

I'm curious what the people here think of this, since the theory-crafters on this forum have always, in my opinion, been the most reliable and accurate, as well as being able to apply 'common-sense' conclusions to their work, rather than just leaving it as raw data for us laymen to try to decipher.

In my own, utterly humble opinion, I disagree with the author, because his evaluations seem too far removed from the practicality of a raid situation. If I'm understanding correctly, he seems to believe that an increase in healing power correlates linearly with an increase in throughput. As someone else (in the blog's comments) mentioned, that doesn't take into account the effect of over-healing, or the effect of needing to cast two spells regardless of power (such as when two targets need healing etc).
The author makes a point that, with more raw spell power, the healer will need to cast less heals and will be able to let HoTs 'tick-up' their targets to full health, or wait to allow the target to take more damage before casting a heal. The problem I see with that is the lack of practicality. In today's environments, if someone isn't at full health, a healer is quite likely to want to rectify that. I'm unlikely to sit on my hands casting nothing when I see my tank is at 85% health, just because I know that my heal is capable of healing 20% (meaning I'd lose 5%) - I'll cast my heal, eat the 5% overheal, and feel safer knowing my tank is topped off. The same applies to all raid-members - I'm not going to allow them to sit under full health and risk them dying to the next wave of damage, just so that I can get 100% efficiency out of my every spell. Some people in the blog's comments make posts to disagree with me here - maybe it's a play-style thing, or maybe it's just my lack of experience on the cutting-edge, so insight from more 'hardcore' players here would be valuable.

However, back to the blog, I'm curious how the author's findings apply to Disc Priests. Rapture favors Spirit quite heavily, but are overheals from crits and from PoH more benefited by Int because it will still be partially effective healing by way of Divine Aegis procs? What about when we factor-in Spirit Shell? Since there isn't really any overhealing (assuming the shields are used), does Int not become vastly more valuable (because, according to the blog's author, larger shields on each cast gained from Int will be more HPM than the cast of the extra spell gained from Spirit)?

#13 Barlow

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 03:06 PM

Regarding the INT vs Spirit Debate (or throughput vs manareg in general for that matter) there hardly ever is a universal answer to what is better, especially if (as the author mentions) the value of INT and Spirit is massively influenced by (Heal)Cooldowns.

You might argue that x% more healing will lose it's value because of overheal. On the other hand more throughput can allow you to keep the tank topped with just the mana efficient "Heal" and less need to cast the less efficient Greater Heal, thus effetively reducing the Mana Needs for the fight. So let's ignore both the overhealing and the mana saved from more efficient Rotations.

I'll just take a 400 Second Fight as an example.

With my Gear I'll get roughly
300.000 base Mana, 262,920 from Mind Bender, 40,656 from Price of Progress, 33,600 from Hymn of Hope, 30,000 from a Mana Pot, 959,853 from Spirit Regen and 297,597 from Rapture (15 Sec delay assumed) netting me a total of 1,924,626 Mana.

Using Spirit Flask I will get 2,001,431 Mana which is pretty much exactly 4% more.

Using INT Flask instead my PoH increases from 24015 to 24983.93625 (roughly 4% more throughput) - so far ignoring the ~.5% increase in Crit. (Inner Will assumed, 5% Stats 10%SP)

Since most of a Discs Healing will come from PoH (Aegis, SpS) that seems to be the most important number (though we could do a detailled breakdown on the rest of the spells).

Since Disc doesn't really have any huge smarthealing CD tools benefitting from INT (like a holys Lightwell, Hymn of Hope, CoH) this seems to favor Spirit Flask.

#14 Tikah

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 02:53 PM

Hey guys! So I just noticed that currently the power auras section was blank. I'm offering up my auras I'm currently using in case anyone else wants or needs to use them. What this does is have mainly all our many main cooldowns directly below where your character is standing. These auras are easily edited, though, if you want to have your own custom textures. You can also move them around as you wish. Any questions you can post here or message me.

Set=Page 2@
Aura[25]=Version:4.3.1; icon:Spell_Frost_WindWalkOn; buffname:Inner Focus; x:-143; bufftype:7; owntex:true; multiids:89485; combat:true; size:0.21; y:-226; timer.h:1.38; timer.enabled:true; timer.cents:false; timer.y:-191; timer.x:-140; timer.Transparent:true@
Aura[26]=Version:4.3.1; icon:Spell_Frost_WindWalkOn; buffname:Inner Focus; x:-143; bufftype:7; alpha:0.15; owntex:true; combat:true; size:0.21; y:-226; inverse:true@
Aura[27]=Version:4.3.1; icon:SPELL_HOLY_PENANCE; buffname:Penance; x:-32; bufftype:7; owntex:true; multiids:47540; combat:true; size:0.21; y:-226; timer.h:1.38; timer.enabled:true; timer.cents:false; timer.y:-193; timer.x:-29; timer.Transparent:true@
Aura[28]=Version:4.3.1; icon:SPELL_HOLY_PENANCE; buffname:Penance; x:-32; bufftype:7; alpha:0.15; owntex:true; combat:true; size:0.21; y:-226; inverse:true@
Aura[29]=Version:4.3.1; icon:ability_shaman_astralshift; buffname:Spirit Shell; x:24; bufftype:7; owntex:true; multiids:109964; combat:true; size:0.21; y:-226; timer.h:1.38; timer.enabled:true; timer.cents:false; timer.y:-192; timer.x:27; timer.Transparent:true@
Aura[30]=Version:4.3.1; icon:ability_shaman_astralshift; buffname:Spirit Shell; x:24; bufftype:7; alpha:0.15; owntex:true; combat:true; size:0.21; y:-226; inverse:true@
Aura[31]=Version:4.3.1; icon:ABILITY_PRIEST_CASCADE; buffname:Cascade; x:79; bufftype:7; owntex:true; multiids:121135; combat:true; size:0.21; y:-226; timer.h:1.38; timer.enabled:true; timer.cents:false; timer.y:-191; timer.x:83; timer.Transparent:true@
Aura[32]=Version:4.3.1; icon:ABILITY_PRIEST_CASCADE; buffname:Cascade; x:79; bufftype:7; alpha:0.15; owntex:true; combat:true; size:0.21; y:-226; inverse:true@
Aura[33]=Version:4.3.1; icon:SPELL_HOLY_POWERINFUSION; buffname:Power Infusion; x:134; bufftype:7; owntex:true; combat:true; size:0.21; y:-226; timer.h:1.38; timer.enabled:true; timer.cents:false; timer.y:-192; timer.x:133; timer.Transparent:true@
Aura[34]=Version:4.3.1; icon:SPELL_HOLY_POWERINFUSION; buffname:Power Infusion; x:134; bufftype:7; alpha:0.15; owntex:true; combat:true; size:0.21; y:-226; inverse:true@
Aura[35]=Version:4.3.1; g:0.9686; icon:Spell_Holy_Rapture; buffname:Rapture; r:0.9843; Extra:true; x:1; bufftype:13; stacks:1; texture:16; alpha:0.1; owntex:true; duration:12; soundend:23; size:0.02; y:-224; texmode:2; finish:3@
Aura[36]=Version:4.3.1; icon:Spell_Shadow_SoulLeech_3; buffname:Mindbender; x:-198; bufftype:7; owntex:true; combat:true; size:0.21; y:-226; timer.h:1.38; timer.enabled:true; timer.cents:false; timer.y:-192; timer.x:-197; timer.Transparent:true@
Aura[37]=Version:4.3.1; icon:Spell_Shadow_SoulLeech_3; buffname:Mindbender; x:-198; bufftype:7; alpha:0.15; owntex:true; combat:true; size:0.21; y:-226; inverse:true@
Aura[38]=Version:4.3.1; icon:Spell_Holy_PrayerOfMendingtga; buffname:Prayer of Mending; x:-87; bufftype:7; alpha:0.16; owntex:true; combat:true; size:0.21; y:-226; inverse:true@
Aura[39]=Version:4.3.1; icon:Spell_Holy_PrayerOfMendingtga; buffname:Prayer of Mending; x:-87; bufftype:15; owntex:true; combat:true; size:0.21; y:-226; timer.h:1.38; timer.enabled:true; timer.cents:false; timer.y:-191; timer.x:-84; timer.Transparent:true@


#15 Blunts

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 04:46 PM

Hey guys, I have recently started playing disc and we start raiding on Wednesday. I am really enjoying the spec, but am still getting used to how it works but I am somewhat confused by the stat reforging. For Holy it seemed very straight forward but for disc it appears less so, there doesnt appear to be any set opinion on the way to go (Mr Robot for instance tells me to reforge everything to crit).

Ive basically gone into as much spirit as possible to start with (this will change over time), then haste to the first renew breakpoint (3,039 with +5% coming from raid buff up to 12.51%) then mastery as much as possible. Is this wise, should I be putting some crit in there, is it even worth getting the haste breakpoint?

Some advice would be most welcomed as its really the only part i'm struggling on getting a grip on....

Toon if you interested is Bënneh on Kazzak (Bënneh @ Kazzak - Community - World of Warcraft)

#16 meddle

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:02 AM

Ive basically gone into as much spirit as possible to start with (this will change over time), then haste to the first renew breakpoint (3,039 with +5% coming from raid buff up to 12.51%) then mastery as much as possible. Is this wise, should I be putting some crit in there, is it even worth getting the haste breakpoint?


The Renew breakpoint for Discipline is not worth it at all, especially not at the cost of Mastery. Moreover, Renew is one of the weakest tools in the Discipline toolbox and shouldn't be the focus of your gearing. Rather, you should be gearing towards getting more substantial Spirit Shells, Aegis, and PW:S, which make up the good majority of Discipline output.

That said, some Haste as Discipline is nice for getting out PoH in a timely manner, especially on heroic fights as there is a ton of movement this tier. With such low values of Haste it will be on you to plan accordingly (read: watch boss timers) to get the most out of your Spirit Shell and Aegis prior to incoming damage or much of the benefit to Mastery stacking will go to waste. This is pretty much how you should play regardless as Discipline, but if you were used to a lot of Haste in T13, as I was, it can take some getting used to.

#17 Omanko

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:34 AM

I think that at this point, most of our choices are limited to gems/enchants, since the rest of our gear is primarily dictated by availability. This will change as content progresses, but so will our needs (i.e. less spirit, more throughput as gear gets better).

For the status quo, I personally aim for Spirit and Mastery above all else. I find Intellect to be a fairly weak throughput stat compared to Mastery, and it doesn't add to regen anymore either so it's not very useful. As said above, Mastery affects the majority of our throughput, including our arguably most powerful spell, Spirit Shell.

Regarding Haste, it's a bit of a tricky stat at this point. It does increase throughput, but it also tends to increase mana consumption. This does however affect peoples' plays differently. I for one prefer to plan ahead when healing and rely less on speedy reactions, which is why I don't care about haste so much. Certain encounters and/or playing styles however may change that.

Healing has traditionally been a much less clearly defined role than DPS in terms of mathematical modeling, because it is contingent on so many different factors, preferences, and circumstances. Try and understand the reasoning behind the choices, and then you can use that to make your own, adapted to your personal situation.

#18 Polopretress

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:08 PM

I find Intellect to be a fairly weak throughput stat compared to Mastery, and it doesn't add to regen anymore either so it's not very useful

I think , it is not true.
Intel is the best stat for healers including disc spec and will stay for long time like this.

The only circonstance where Intel could be under the mastery is when your overhealing is so important that adding Intel will be transfered into Overhealing while adding mastery can be used in the first priority in the healing table.

MoP has additionaly increased the difference between INT and the others HpS stat compare to Cata and previous release of wow.
That is also the reason why , with MoP, has appeared these gems with a double value of secondary stat compared to primary stat like INT.
It is just a compensation but the compensation is not totale.

I agree that mastery is scaling well on SS and PWS but Intel has still a better scaling on these 2 spells.
In addition, you are not under SS or PWS during all the fight and all the others spells have a real bad scaling on Mastery including PoH.

Anyway, it is difficult to oppose Intel vs Mastery because we have to choose the stats compared to the gems color.
So i cannot imagine (when spirit is at the right level) that we use , for example, a 80 int/160 mastery on red or 320 mastery on yelow.

Basically, the double value of mastery compared to the intel on gems does not compensate completly the gap between the effect of the intel on the whole gameplay.

To come back on the initial question, i agree with you with the choice of mastery but this choice does not impact really heavely the performance.
When you consider the global gameplay of the disc spec, Haste / Mastery / Critical are quite at the same level of performance.
The choice of mastery will be better in some phase where an overhealing is possible.

As you have written, Haste is still a great stat but , i think, it is more applicable in progress (for boss first down) where the reactivity is more important than the HpS itself.

Compared to pre-Mop, my feeling is that haste has been devaluated because of 2 reasons :
- haste does not scale with the new spells chosen @LV90 (only on the gcd of the spell)
- haste does not scale really under SS since it is not possible to add a cast of PoH under SS without using Power Infusion.

When you integrate these 2 effects in the global gameplay, the weight of the haste is reduced depending on the weight of those 2 spells (SS and spell @LV90) in the global gameplay.

#19 Polopretress

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 03:25 PM

I have an additional subject link to haste breakpoints given at the first page.

I have not a lot of time today to give long details of calculation but i do not agree on the breakpoint totally.
in fact, i am not in accordance with the haste value needed for breakpoints.

For examples :
- First additional tic of renew is not at 12,51% haste but at 12,50 haste.
- Same for sanctuary which is at 10% instead of 9,98%

And all the others are wrong also except Renew (Glyphed) and sanctuary for 5 and 6 additional tics.


the general formula of haste depending on the number of added tic is :

%haste =MAX(1/(2*N)+(N+X-1)/N -1;0)

where :
N : Number of base tic without haste = total Time of Hot without haste / interval between tic without haste)
X : number of aditional tic

So i do not understand why we can find also 16,66% for Renew (glyphed) and 16,65% for Sanctuary when the formula give the same value.

If anyone can confirm or correct me, it will be a pleaser !

#20 Havoc12

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 01:58 AM

[edited to correct some typos and copy/paste errors]

Intellect is not strong for throughput its actually rather weak. spirit below 13k is roughly 1.2 times better than intellect, except for gimmick encounters. For disc mastery is nearly 1 to 1 in value with intellect.

At 18k spellpower (before raid buffs), 1 additional point increases healing by all spells by 0.004610465985% (including the crit bonus) and ignoring all overheal.

1 point of mastery increases absorbs by 0.0072%

Assuming 20% overheal and 50% of your healing from absorbs. 1 mastery is about the same as 1 intellect

Holy mastery is 0.0021% per point of mastery, so it is ~2:1 with intellect, but it is a little worse due since it overheals more.

Basically disc priests should never gem intellect at all, unless the set bonus makes it worthwhile.

Haste stacks multiplicatively. That means your haste increases the benefit you get from borrowed time, serendipity and power infusion. Haste theoretically is currently the best throughput stat, but unfortunately since healing is HPM limited at the moment, it turns out to be the worst.

Crit due to very poor scaling with PoH and no scaling with PWS, is currently a terrible stat for disc. Intellect is currently better than crit even at 50% penalty.

The correct stat weights for disc are now dependent on your spirit

Below 13k spirit

spirit >> mastery = int > haste > crit

Above 13k spirit

spirit = mastery = int > haste > crit

At 17k spirit

haste > mastery = int > spirit > crit.

For holy things are not so clear cut its tough to determine the value of crit vs haste and the exact point where more spirit is pointless is harder to judge.

If you struggle with mana you need more spirit.

If mana is not a problem haste >= int > mastery > crit, for gems. And int > everything for enchants, consumables.

==============================

Haste and SS:

to add one more PoH in 15s without any haste requires ~17% haste normally.

However because haste and borrowed time stack multiplicatively you only need 14.5% haste to get an extra PoH in if you have borrowed time up when you activated spirit shell.

Thus by arranging to have borrowed time up when you activate spirit shell you only need ~10% haste before raid buffs to squeeze an extra PoH in. That is a lot of haste rating admittedly but its still there. You can have PI up for every 2nd spirit shell too.




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