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Priest Simple Questions/Simple Answers: Mists of Pandaria


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#21 urumii

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 12:49 PM

I have an alt shadowpriest with item level 480, but i am not happy with the damage done in LFR. I feel I am using the correct ability-priority. However, on this item level I don't see how should I reach the second haste breakpoint at 8085 - I am still missing around 2000. Should I keep the first haste breakpoint at 2021, and reforge to crit, or should I stick to the haste, even if is no chance to reach the second breakpoint in the near future?


To answer this question for sure, you would have to run your character through simulationcraft. However, in most cases haste will always be your best stat until you reach 8085. So even if you can't reach that number, you should still be trying to get as much haste as you can.

#22 Hamlet

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:45 PM

Could you provide a link to that?
I would be very puzzled from a programming standpoint why only one of the values would be checked and not the others...
Also testing it seems near impossible with an rng based stat like crit which has to change during a HoT/DoT.

Edit: I'm stupid... I noticed I can just go to the quoted post. Has Hamlet provided any tests or something for that behaviour? This really strikes me as an odd behaviour if crit were to dynamically update...


DoTs/HoTs roll for crits on each tick so why not use the caster's current crit rate instead of maintaining individual crit rates for each DoT/HoT placed by the caster?


I'm not totally sure about this. It's a huge pain to try to test how crit rate varies in the middle of a DoT. The one time we did test easily was with Balance 4T11: Stormrider's Regalia - Item Set - World of Warcraft (back then it was 99% to crit). DoTs definitely did update dynamically when that buff appeared or fadad.

So maybe they implemented that one set bonus in a unique way (plausible since it would have been overpowered to allow let you refresh DoT's with 100% to crit each time you got it). But otherwise, yeah, crit's just different from haste/spellpower. This wouldn't be too crazy, for the reason cited above--it kind of makes sense from an implementation perspective to crit to check each time, but it would be a huge mess for haste. Also remember DoT crits were added much later on, after DoTs had already been around for a long while.

It would be worth checking if someone could come up with a really big on-demand crit buff you could use to test.

#23 Thanator94

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:52 PM

I looked on GuildOx website at the most popular talent selections and in not one single instance did it show Shadow Priests taking Mindbender over From Darkness Comes Light. I raided with FDCL this entire expansion until recently experimenting with Mindbender and switching the Mind Spike glyph with Vampiric Embrace glyph to help my healers some. My gear is at iLevel 487 and the damage from Mind Spike is below Ming Blast and Shadow Word: Death.

I found the rotation to be much easier to maintain with Mindbender and the DPS numbers even appear to be higher as long as i dont miss a Mindbender once it comes off of cooldown. I even used a pretty complicated SimCraft simulation to test the two options and it shows Mindbender being 2K better when fighting a single target boss and even equal to two boss setups.

Anyone else useing Mindbender over FDCL?

#24 Thanator94

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:59 PM

To answer this question for sure, you would have to run your character through simulationcraft. However, in most cases haste will always be your best stat until you reach 8085. So even if you can't reach that number, you should still be trying to get as much haste as you can.


I run Simulation Craft often to assess reforging options. The difference between Haste and Crit is often about 0.05 to 0.10 which means that a shift of 1000 Crit to Haste or vice-versa would mean a change in Intellect equivalent damage of about 50 - 100 Intellect.

You are running with around 15,000 - 17,000 Intellect unbuffed. A change of 100 intellect is pretty insignificant. In fact the way that Blizzard has adjusted all the secondary stats, reforging really does not move the needle as much as it did in Cataclysm.

#25 elfa

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Posted 30 January 2013 - 10:49 AM

does Lightspring benefit from the Bathed in Light effect (+500% healing) on Tsulong for the whole duration if it is put down during the buff?

#26 Jeges

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Posted 04 February 2013 - 09:47 PM

Lightspring is affected by Bathed in Light when you have the buff while Lightspring Renew is being applied to someone, and not when you don't. This can lead to a situation where you have one Lightspring Renew ticking for e.g. 126K and another ticking for 21K simultaneously, depending on whether you had the buff when each was applied.

As a side note, Lightspring does not seem to do any healing to Tsulong.

#27 gspott

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Posted 22 February 2013 - 07:44 PM

is +hit still important? if so how much is needed for raiding?

#28 Contradiction

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:47 PM

So i've been reading through the thread in anticipation for 5.2, and i've found a lot of the information here to be very helpful. However, with the February 19th patch notes having essentially completely redesigned quite a few aspects of Disc in 5.2, what would you guys say the damage to disc will be?

I know that for awhile disc was supposedly going to be hit with a 30ish percent nerf which would put us below the other healing specs, are we still in such a predicament, or have they pulled us out of that? Also, since Holy has not changed considerably in 5.2 as of yet, will Disc still be ahead of Holy for sustained healing or are we going to be basically just good for the large bursts of damage, and preparing it with Spirit Shell accordingly. On that train of thought, is our playstyle going to be dominated by Atonement or will that remain a filler with the exception of Penance and Holy Fire / redesigned Solace which should be used on cooldown?

Thanks in advance, i know that's a huge amount of questions, but thought i could try and get them all covered in one go.

#29 calesta_ezu

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 07:45 PM

Has anyone done a comparison of the rate of mana return between Power Word: Solace and Mindbender? If so, what makes more sense to use?

#30 urumii

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 10:39 PM

Reply for calesta_ezu

Lots of discussion around page 8 of the Disc discussion, around when they put Solace on the PTR, here are some quotes for you, there may be more as well.

SF+Solace (9attacks, 3% mana each, 1 summon per 3 minute, Solace on CD = 18 times per 3 minute) = 9 * 3% + 18 * 1% (mana regen part) + 18 * 1.8% (free mana cost part) = 77,4% mana per 3 minute

So, MB talent gives you estimate 47% mana per 3 minute and Solace gives you 77% mana per 3 minute.
Solace is nobrain choice for Disc right now.


I think solace is balanced around the logged use of holy fire for priests.

The real question here is whether holy fire is now 1.5 cast or if its still 2 sec. Since there is no longer a glyph to make it instant taking solace reduces HF cast time by 0.5s. If that is the case the either you have to spend more mana casting smite or you will also lose 0.5s everytime you cast holy fire.

If it is 2s without solace then its an absolute no brainer to take solace. You only need to cast

47.19 - 18 = 39.19 --> 39.19/3.8 10.38 i.e. 11 solace per 3 minutes to beat the mana return from mindbender. That equates to 1 solace every 18s, which you less than you need to for keeping evangelism stacked. Since you will have to cast 11 holy fires with mindbender then overall you are also gaining 0.5*11 + 3 = 8.5 seconds of casting time per 3 minutes. If you choose to use smite to save time instead you will use an additional 0.7% mana each time, which makes the mana gain from solace even more significant.




This is especially true in 5.2 when Disc will strongly favor Solace over Mindbender (Mindbender is all %-based regen, while Solace's mana benefit is partially %-based and partially through nullifying the cost of Holy Fire).

IIRC, Shadowfiend is 9% mana every minute on average, and Solace is at most 6%. 6000 added mana, at 15%/min of %-based regen, is only 75 MP5.



#31 hjackma51982

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 12:23 AM

Right now i am using a 489 Light of the Cosmos (I'm afraid I have no idea how to link items) but it is not proccing off of PW: Solace. The bug has been reported but there is no posted ETA for a fix or notation that it responding correctly.

With that in mind, am I better off to 1)keep PW: Solace and weave SW: Pain into my rotation to proc the trinket 2)swap back to Mind Bender as Holy Fire will proc the trinket or 3)keep PW: Solace, skip the SW: Pain and go back to my 470 Petrified Pickled Egg?

I've been quite happy with PW: Solace lately, but if I need to go back to my MindBender I can surely manage that as well.


ETA: In looking over mana cost of SW: Pain vs the mana gains from Solace and Mind bender-- . SW: Pain costs approximately 7500 mana to cast, so weaving it in would pretty thoroughly gut the mana returns from Solace. Back to Mind bender it is. I apologize for the needless post, but I don't know how to delete it

#32 petre

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 11:09 PM

Haven't seen much talk about holy lately, not even a sticky for them in 5.2. I've played holy for a long time and stick with it as long as it's viable.

I've had success with a movement-focused build, which has been helpful given many encounters require quite a bit of movement. I run 10-man normal content, so your experience will vary elsewhere I'm sure.

Talent Calculator - Game Guide - World of Warcraft

Since shields are inefficient for holy, Angelic Feather provides a much more flexible and powerful movement tool than Body and Soul. You can pre-drop them for planned movement, or use them dynamically whenever you would use Body and Soul.

With no healing return from Solace, Mindbender provides a superior damage and mana return for GCD investment.

Twist of Fate works very well with Prayer of Mending and especially Circle of Healing, keeping that buff up whenever healing is needed most.

The most novel idea: Using Inner Will instead of Inner Fire for most fights.

With the glyph, Inner Will adds a 16% movement buff, double what the boot enchant provides. Since the boot enchant doesn't stack with Inner Will, you're free to go with 175 haste instead of 140 mastery. As long as you can reach the haste breakpoint with glyphed Renew, it is even more mana efficient than CoH at nearly the same HPS! You can cast a rotation of (Cascade on cooldown) CoH, PoM, Renew x 4 without ever planting your feet and your mana will last forever if you're stacking spirit and managing cooldowns.

The ability to swap Chakra AND your Inner buff makes you highly flexable for other situations. Want to survive Death Blossom on Sha? Put up Inner Fire (increased AR for damage reduction plus increased healing), use Chakra:Sanctuary and blow Divine Hymn. Need to keep a tank standing the final phase of Horridon? Inner Fire + Chakra: Serenity and just chain-cast Greater Heal to refresh Renew and stack a bunch of mastery HoTs.

The basic idea is that you're now a resto druid, but with all the Holy cooldowns and utility.

#33 Radghr

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:52 PM

(...)
With no healing return from Solace, Mindbender provides a superior damage and mana return for GCD investment.(...)


Solace does heal for Holypriests aswell as disc priests.

#34 petre

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 10:23 PM

Solace does heal for Holypriests aswell as disc priests.


I is bad priest, so it does. I haven't been giving it the proper attention. I was going entirely off the patch note:

Solace replaces Holy Fire. It deals the same damage and interacts with other spells and abilities in the same manner, but is instant, costs no mana, and restores 1% of maximum mana on each cast.

and my Holy Fire doesn't heal anyone, so I assumed that functionality remained part of the Holy Fire bonus via Atonement. My gut says that's probably not quite enough to excite me, but given I'm probably biased I will have to consider it some.

#35 snegoviK

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 12:32 PM

Apologies if this was asked before, the search function doesn't seem to work right now (500 server error).

Do healing debuffs (such as mortal strike) affect Spirit Shell heals? Thanks

#36 sweetlove

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 08:03 AM

Sorry to ask such a noob question but i cannot find reliable or consistent info regarding stats for disc priests.
I have been away from wow for most of mop returning to find holy spec less viable now than previously. I have therefore specced disc but am not putting out the sort of numbers I would expect. Some sources tell me to spec haste while other say equal crit and mastery? Can you let me know what u guys find better please?

#37 Nicarras

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 10:40 PM

snegoviK: Yes SS is affected by things like MS.

sweetlove: You can gear either way. I've found most success just going Haste. I end up casting PoH and GH so often that I want the haste. You cant go wrong either way but I'd start there. If you feel you can drop haste for crit, then go that way.

#38 Antihistamin

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 02:38 AM

Hello!  

 

I have found what appears to be a hidden 5.56% bonus to haste rating (Holy and Disc at least, not sure about shadow).  I have looked for documentation of this to no avail, hopefully I don't simply fail at search engines.

 

It seems that any haste provided by gear is multiplied by 1.0556 before being applied to the paper doll's total haste rating.  I have checked both individual and cumulative values, everything matches up as expected.  Here's the data from my toon:

 

3 pcs with haste:

 

Item Haste     = 841

Paper Doll     = 888

 

Item Haste     = 1011

Paper Doll     = 1067

 

Item Haste     = 522

Paper Doll     = 551

 

Total Item Haste      = 2374

Total Paper Doll      = 2506

 

 

As you can see, there is no variation on the "bonus" haste calculation, it is always 5.56%.  All numbers are from my own paper doll (link to armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/thrall/Antihistamin/simple), no buffs of  course, nothing in the spellbook or on item descriptions.  

 

So... what did I miss?



#39 MysticalOS

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 06:47 PM

It's more likely you are wearing an amplification trinket.




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