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[Balance] Simple questions + WoL Feedback


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#1 Melthu

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 10:35 PM

New thread for MoP. This is the thread for simple questions regarding Balance. If your question applies to one of the existing thread topics, please post it there instead; if you expect to generate significant additional discussion, create a new thread. If, however, you have a simple question that only requires a simple answer and don't see a better place to post it, this is your thread.

Review the forum rules.
Though forum rule 7 is relaxed for this thread, that doesn't mean the rest of the rules are. Familiarize yourself with them prior to posting or you will be infracted.

Additionally, we are now allowing you to post your World of Logs parses if you feel stuck with respect to your DPS. Please note you must follow the criteria listed here:
  • The parse must be from a 10 or 25 man raid (non-heroic is fine). 5-mans and target dummies are not welcome.
  • In line with this, you must be max level (90). We're not about to look over a log from a level 70 Sunwell run.
  • Your profile MUST work. If you tend to change specs/log out in PVP gear please create a character profile through Wowhead or a similar site. That way if your issue is related to your gear, help can be provided. If your post is about an alt druid, you absolutely must provide an armory link/character profile or we simply can't help you.
  • You must give a few sentences regarding what you think your problem is. Are you moving a lot due to fight mechanics? Do you perform some vital secondary role that may impact your DPS? (kiting, etc). We can't help you if you don't help us.

Please note that this thread is no exception to how the rest of our forums work regarding the fact that no one is obligated to help you. Do not bump, repost, or cry about it. You will be heavily infracted if you do.

#2 gannonjf

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 08:09 AM

So what have we decided. Is this the expac of the staff or the MH/OH?

#3 damonsgame

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 11:09 PM

Haste(BP)>CRIT

or just stack up crit?

I checked most of the top druid.They are all stacking crit

#4 Slippykins

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 04:54 AM

Haste(BP)>CRIT

or just stack up crit?

I checked most of the top druid.They are all stacking crit


Hitting the haste breakpoint (5273) > crit. Stack crit after you reach the breakpoint.

#5 Lilija

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 05:30 AM

Haste(BP)>CRIT

or just stack up crit?

I checked most of the top druid.They are all stacking crit

On single target haste breakpoint is absolutly the way to go. However, multidot fights benefit a lot from crit with SS proc.

#6 ilostmahbucket

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 03:43 AM

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I am desperately trying to help this player improve her DPS to avoid losing her raiding spot. I have gone over her rotation, read through EJ and Icy Veins guides with her, and it seems she is doing her single target rotation correctly. She also seems to be geared/gemmed/reforged intelligently, I don't think that is the issue, but I'd welcome feedback there too. She has done a lot to try to figure out why her DPS is so low, videos, discussions with other players, etc.

I have scrutinized the WOL reports for a few fights but I can't seem to find something obviously wrong.

In comparison to the other boomkin in the raid Tessorak, who is doing 10-16k more dps in general, I have seemed to notice that her spells hit for less, and that she has fewer DOT ticks. She is in Borderline Amazing - Bleeding Hollow. I believe she is soft haste capped though, and that she has better crit/haste/hit/spellpower (only less mastery) than Tessorak. She is just getting outplayed.

1. Is there any mistake that springs to mind right away that new boomkins often make in 5.0.5?
2. Any recent MOP changes that would affect her DPS?
3. See anything in the WOL that stands out? (Doesn't have to be for Will of the Emperor's fight, you can look through a few of the logs if you have time)

I am completely puzzled after hours of pondering, any help would be greatly appreciated.

#7 Cardio31

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:08 PM

My question is in regard to the current balance haste caps and extra dot ticks.

From the Balance Druid MOP Guide we can see that haste break points are 5273, 10289, and 15318 for extra dot ticks when under the effect of Moonkin form and Nature's Grace. What happens when under the effect of bloodlust? Is the haste additive or multiplicative?

i.e. how many extra dot ticks do u get during bloodlust @ 5273 haste? I am curious if there are other haste break points when under bloodlust effects.

#8 gannonjf

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 07:04 AM

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World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I am desperately trying to help this player improve her DPS to avoid losing her raiding spot. I have gone over her rotation, read through EJ and Icy Veins guides with her, and it seems she is doing her single target rotation correctly. She also seems to be geared/gemmed/reforged intelligently, I don't think that is the issue, but I'd welcome feedback there too. She has done a lot to try to figure out why her DPS is so low, videos, discussions with other players, etc.

I have scrutinized the WOL reports for a few fights but I can't seem to find something obviously wrong.

In comparison to the other boomkin in the raid Tessorak, who is doing 10-16k more dps in general, I have seemed to notice that her spells hit for less, and that she has fewer DOT ticks. She is in Borderline Amazing - Bleeding Hollow. I believe she is soft haste capped though, and that she has better crit/haste/hit/spellpower (only less mastery) than Tessorak. She is just getting outplayed.

1. Is there any mistake that springs to mind right away that new boomkins often make in 5.0.5?
2. Any recent MOP changes that would affect her DPS?
3. See anything in the WOL that stands out? (Doesn't have to be for Will of the Emperor's fight, you can look through a few of the logs if you have time)

I am completely puzzled after hours of pondering, any help would be greatly appreciated.


Just looking at one fight her dot uptime is pathetically low... 72% moonfire, 70% sunfire. Should be much closer to 100% then that.
She used Incarn, CA, NV once in a 6minute fight, should definately have been twice. Have her use mr robot for reforging until she gets a better idea of how to do it. There's no reason to enchant boots for hit when you can have run speed instead.
Herbalism isn't a dps profession.

#9 Cardio31

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Posted 24 October 2012 - 02:41 AM

Pidsterooski
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

I am desperately trying to help this player improve her DPS to avoid losing her raiding spot. I have gone over her rotation, read through EJ and Icy Veins guides with her, and it seems she is doing her single target rotation correctly. She also seems to be geared/gemmed/reforged intelligently, I don't think that is the issue, but I'd welcome feedback there too. She has done a lot to try to figure out why her DPS is so low, videos, discussions with other players, etc.

I have scrutinized the WOL reports for a few fights but I can't seem to find something obviously wrong.

In comparison to the other boomkin in the raid Tessorak, who is doing 10-16k more dps in general, I have seemed to notice that her spells hit for less, and that she has fewer DOT ticks. She is in Borderline Amazing - Bleeding Hollow. I believe she is soft haste capped though, and that she has better crit/haste/hit/spellpower (only less mastery) than Tessorak. She is just getting outplayed.

1. Is there any mistake that springs to mind right away that new boomkins often make in 5.0.5?
2. Any recent MOP changes that would affect her DPS?
3. See anything in the WOL that stands out? (Doesn't have to be for Will of the Emperor's fight, you can look through a few of the logs if you have time)

I am completely puzzled after hours of pondering, any help would be greatly appreciated.


Taking a look at try #8 on Emperor

Pidsterooski

sunfire 81% uptime & 1 miss, 529 ticks
moonfire 83% uptime & 2 misses, 555 ticks

Uptime is definitely low and should be around 98-99%, I would recommend making sure he's hit capped. Not noticing a dot was missed during a rotation is a big loss in dps. Her damage distribution between her basic spells looks good, she knows her single target dps rotation and moves between eclipses well. She used incarnation, CA, and NV twice in the attempt so its not a case of forgetting cooldowns. At her gear level, she should be maintaining 50k dps on this encounter no problem. She actually beat Tessorak on this attempt, 46k dps vs 45k dps.

Tessorak Comparison

sunfire 73% 512 ticks
moonfire 81% 610 ticks

Biggest thing I would recommend for her is to get familiar with the fight mechanics. #1 most important thing. Majority of the encounters today have opportunities for balance druids to multi-dot several targets, which is key to high dps. Tessorak hit harder b/c mastery buffs eclipse phase so that is understandable. Make sure to remind her to look for multi target dotting opportunities and to apply dots in eclipse with Nature's Grace up.

#10 crimsonsentinel

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 11:10 PM

Is it a dps gain to refresh dots during non-eclipse phases?

#11 P_H

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 10:55 AM

About how much of a DPS loss should I expect if I play with reforging and gemming intended for Resto? This would entail entirely different haste breakpoints (at the moment 3043), and mastery prioritization/crit minimization. I'm just looking for a ballpark estimate.

#12 Konom

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 12:47 PM

About how much of a DPS loss should I expect if I play with reforging and gemming intended for Resto? This would entail entirely different haste breakpoints (at the moment 3043), and mastery prioritization/crit minimization. I'm just looking for a ballpark estimate.


You're absolutely right to think that staying at 3043 haste would gimp your dps pretty hard (especially with low crit). Eventually you just need to build two slightly different sets. Right now gear with haste and spirit is essentially interchangeable between the two specs, while gear heavily with mastery (like the crafted chest) or crit (some pvp pieces) should be swapped. I've probably been favoring boomkin style gemming right now simply because resto is pretty damn strong as it is, and I haven't noticed that big of an issue even during progression fights as a healer.

I couldn't really give a ballpark because it really depends on what gear you have (the better the gear, the bigger the difference between potential dps and actual dps). My suggestion is to bridge the gap a bit by reforging during progression fights that you're forced to go boomkin (and not worry about it so much during farm). An addon like reforgelite enables me to swap between the two sets very quickly. At the bare minimum I'm able to maintain haste soft cap for boomkin and gain as much crit as possible. Is it completely optimal? No, but that's the life of someone with a dual role.

#13 Valbrand

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 02:33 PM

Hello guys.

I've been thinking about our talents, and I started asking myself some questions:

Is there any situation where Incarnation isn't the most powerful level 60 talent, DPS-wise?
About the level 90 talents... Okay, obviously NV is the best talent here when you want to have burst phases in a combat. But can the other options outshine it in average DPS after a long combat?

#14 Baccante

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 12:59 PM

Hello EJ !

I'm Engineer and i don't know when use my Synapse Springs after the Flashfrozen Resin Globule buff (or others trinket on use) ,should I use it in Solar Eclipse or should I always wait Lunar Eclipse for Mono?

Ps : Sorry about my English. I'm French :x

Thanks !

#15 Lhokz

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Posted 24 November 2012 - 03:49 PM

Hello EJ !

I'm Engineer and i don't know when use my Synapse Springs after the Flashfrozen Resin Globule buff (or others trinket on use) ,should I use it in Solar Eclipse or should I always wait Lunar Eclipse for Mono?

Ps : Sorry about my English. I'm French :x

Thanks !



more powerfull during lunar eclipse with starfall (best eclipse burst monotarget). However, try to use it whenever CD's up to avoid an uptime loss (try to use it =<10s when the use is up, depends on your situation, trinkets procs / reaching an eclipse).

(FR: dans ta phase de burst, tu as 15s de temps de recharge du use ingé quand tu claques ton trinket. Si tu te times a la ms près, tu devrais pouvoir use ingé sur ta 2e partie de cycle burst, a savoir sur CA)



Concerning

I have the same threat issue you describe but I have found that popping Mirror Images after you cast your second Starfall works nicely - at that point, you should be nearing your tank's threat, you pop MI and your threat is wiped (nor can you gain any more threat for the duration of MI).


For my opinion, I thing popping Mirror Images is a big loss of DPS (don't know if bugged or no, but I never break more than 4k damage with this CD, so 4k damage for 1 GCD isn't very nice). You should never use it, still when you have threat issues because the real problem isn't you, but your crap tank (never had this problem with high gear and a correct tanking).

#16 benscott

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 07:23 PM

Hello guys im klydefrog, id like some help with the haste break points and understanding them.
I thought I had them worked out and down to an art but it appears ive totally confused myself and im now doubting my understanding.

Ill link my profile and i currently have full haste reforge because of the reforge lite addon tryint to get me 5273 haste
Klydefrog @ Darkspear - Community - World of Warcraft

Id like to know/understand how much haste i can have without NG or Mookin aura and reach the highest breakpoint.

My understanding was that 425 was 1% haste, so in my current gear setup i have 32.04% haste with both buffs meaning i have 13617 haste rating but i assumed this ment i was over the 10289 haste breakpoint. I looked at Hamlets guide and i see the breakpoints are 5273, 10289 and 15318.

Is this correct?

The basic point im trying to make or find out is how much haste i can have (actual stat like 1000) without NG or Moonkin aura.

Any help here would be much appreciated!

Thanks klydefrog

#17 Lazerdollarz

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 09:37 PM

5273 rating is the breakpoint for 2 extra ticks on MF/SuF with Moonkin Aura and NG.

#18 benscott

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 10:15 PM

Could you give me numbers without NG and moonkin aura?

Im not able to grasp the idea.. even if you could write down some calculations please.

#19 Lazerdollarz

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Posted 28 November 2012 - 11:37 PM

It's not worthwhile to gear to a breakpoint outside of what you can attain with Moonkin Aura and NG. Tangedyn has a spreadsheet here with all the required haste percentages: https://docs.google....THc&hl=en#gid=1

e: My assumption is that you don't know what the breakpoint numbers mean. You need 5273 haste rating from your gear in addition to the haste granted from NG and Moonkin Aura to gain that extra tick.

#20 Erdluf

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:03 AM

Computations:
Without 4t14, MF is a 14 second dot.
If you want +3 ticks, that will be ten ticks.
10=Round(14/tick-duration,1)
9.5 <= 14/tick-duration
tick-duration <= 14/9.5
tick-duration <= 1.473684,
Wow tick durations are rounded (round-even) to the nearest millisecond.
tick-duration = RoundEven(2/(1+haste), .001)
2/(1+haste) < 1.4735
2/1.4735 < 1+haste
1+haste > 1.357313
1+Haste = (moonkin aura=1.05)*(nature's grace=1.15)*(1+ haste rating/42500)
1.357313 / 1.05 / 1.15 - 1 <= hasterating/42500
.124068 * 42500 <= hasterating
Hasterating > 5272.904
Giving the 5273 breakpoint.

If you want to leave out the 1.05 and 1.15, you end up with
.357313 * 42500 < Haste rating
Haste Rating >= 15185.78

As Lazer said, not practical.




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