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[Balance] Simple questions + WoL Feedback


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#21 Valbrand

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 12:26 PM

Hello guys.

I've been thinking about our talents, and I started asking myself some questions:

Is there any situation where Incarnation isn't the most powerful level 60 talent, DPS-wise?
About the level 90 talents... Okay, obviously NV is the best talent here when you want to have burst phases in a combat. But can the other options outshine it in average DPS after a long combat?


Sorry for reposting, but does anyone know the answer to this?

#22 Lazerdollarz

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Posted 29 November 2012 - 04:48 PM

If a fight is typically going to end right before you'd get your cooldowns back up (so fight lengths of 2:50, 5:50, etc.) it's possible that HotW will be better than NV. DoC is theoretically better with 4t14 on a fight without movement, though I'm dubious of its applications in a real raid environment. SotF is devalued by haste, which is our best stat up to breakpoints, so I can't see a situation where it would be better than Incarnation.

#23 matt9882

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 05:39 AM

First off, thanks for looking - it's very appreciated. I need some serious WoL feedback. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I know my DoT up-time is bad - and I don't know why (not doing anything different from Cata as far as DoT's). I think I'm primarily screwing something up in movement-heavy fights, I seem to level out / catch up a bit when I can park and play.

I've literally gone from being top DPS in my guild last xpac, to below tanks and the new, very under geared boomie we just picked up. There are plenty of fights where I'm damned near - if not actually - the bottom. I will lose my raid spot soon if I don't fix this, and I'm an officer. That'd be embarrassing.

Armory:
http://us.battle.net.../en/character/m ... n/advanced

Logs are below:
Dashboard - 06-12 20:28 - Gaia - World of Logs (Tonight)
Dashboard - 04-12 20:07 - Gaia - World of Logs (This past Tuesday)
Dashboard - 02-12 20:05 - Gaia - World of Logs (This past Sunday)

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (Guild calendar with some others)


I used to rank on WoL all the time - now I don't have a single one, and I'm not close to sniffing any, either. I'm banging my head into a brick wall - I don't know what the hell I'm doing. If anyone wants to screw around in-game, let me know. I'm open to anything at this point.

#24 Lazerdollarz

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 06:50 AM

Using my log from last week's Protectors kill for comparison:
Mathian (7:47 fight length, 80560 DPS)
71 SF
45 SS
78 Wrath
14 Starfall
41 MF
50 SuF


Lazer (6:03 fight length, 108326 DPS)
69 SF
44 SS
27 Wrath
12 Starfall
27 MF
27 SuF

1) You're using Wrath way too much and as such are spending less time using Starfire, which has a higher DPET than Wrath by a considerable margin. I only had 2 fewer Starfire casts than you in a combat that lasted 1:40 less and you spent a much larger portion of your time casting Wrath compared to me. You should be using Starfire as your primary nuke during Celestial Alignment.

2) It looks like you're spending too much time casting DoTs. You should be applying both DoTs at the beginning of each Eclipse, at the beginning of CA and as your last cast exiting CA, then cycle through to your next Eclipse.

3) It looks like you understand not to cast more than one Starsurge per Solar except when the cast to exit Solar would be a Starsurge, but you should be using it on cooldown outside of that situation (including outside of Eclipses).

4) Every usage of Incarnation should be at the beginning of a new Lunar Eclipse, and you should use CA immediately after that Eclipse ends. You should save a Starfall to cast before you enter Lunar to get three consecutive buffed Starfall casts. You're looking at a CD rotation like this: get to 75 Lunar Energy -> Starfall -> Wrath -> Incarnation + NV + Potion -> DoTs -> Starfall when the buff runs out -> Starfire/Starsurge til 0 energy -> CA + both DoTs -> Starfall when the buff runs out -> Starfire/Starsurge til less than 2 seconds on CA remain -> both DoTs -> continue toward Solar. It's VERY important to be doing this during Heroism. Moonkin are incredibly bursty right now, so executing this CD rotation is critical to optimizing DPS.

Hope this helps. PM me for my realID if you need anything else.

#25 Dreedo

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:10 AM

Hey everyone!
Im writing this since i feel like im struggling with my dps on the fights. my DPS at the start seems to be OK but sometimes its not even top 10.. Dunno if the RNG in the starsurge dmg (50k - 300k) is playing a huge role or just that im doing something wrong? hopefully not.

I open with 75 lunar > Starfall > Starsurge > Dots > Starfire till starfall runs off > proc NV, incarnation and starfall > Refresh dots > spam Starfire till Solar eclipse > Pop CA > Starfall > Starfire spam and refreshing dots > Wrath till lunar then another Starfall and dot refresh and keep the standard rotation up with starfall on every lunar (unless something is worth saving it for, aka 20-30 sec on dmg buffs/BL)

Other than that i cant really see what im doing wrong, i tend to drop later in on the fights and end up very low. sometimes as the last dps :(

I will post some info below with armory and WoL etc.

Dreedo @ Kazzak - Community - World of Warcraft

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis (guild logs, all of them)
Damage Done - 11-12 17:33 - The ÐreamCatchers - World of Logs (Sha of fear)
Damage Done - 11-12 17:33 - The ÐreamCatchers - World of Logs (Feng HC)
Damage Done - 11-12 17:33 - The ÐreamCatchers - World of Logs (Elegon)
Damage Done - 11-12 17:33 - The ÐreamCatchers - World of Logs (Will of the Emperor)
Damage Done - 04-12 17:44 - The ÐreamCatchers - World of Logs (Protectors Elite)

This is our latest raid and if you want more links on specific fights i can find them for you.
They all are 25 man normal with Feng beeing HC.

Notable Gear info:
Im sitting on in my bag aswell as as a viable wep option.

Thanks for taking your time helping me!

#26 Lazerdollarz

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 08:22 AM

Your opener is suboptimal. Read point 4 in the post above yours if you're looking for the standard opener. You're also not using potions, so I frankly don't understand how you expect to do top tier DPS without maximizing everything about your character. Use a potion just before the pull so you have it for your first round of cooldowns, then use another at a different point in the fight along with all your cooldowns again.

#27 Dreedo

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 02:26 PM

I am useing a pot before we pull aswell as a pot later on in the fight. Forgot to mention it but i think its in the logs ;)

#28 Domesticated

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:12 PM

Hello,

Posting here on behalf of my wife, who is looking to improve her DPS.

Armory: Serathi @ Turalyon - Community - World of Warcraft

Log of a recent MSV clear: Details for Serathi - 12-12 20:07 - The Dottagers - World of Logs

She uses Ask Mr. Robot to optimize her gear which uses a stat priority of: Hit Haste (35.73%) > Crit > Haste > Mastery which seems reasonable, and also uses a spell flash add on to help with her rotation (Bitten's SpellFlash: Druid - Druid - World of Warcraft Addons - Curse) so I assume her rotation and gearing is fine, I would be very grateful if someone can advise on what she can do better based on the logs. Is she just losing too much dps when moving?

#29 Erdluf

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:42 PM

Does that tool predict energy (based on what you are currently casting, or a spell that may be in flight)?

If not, she'll have a tendancy to cast one too many of the old nuke. I didn't look at this a lot, but near the beginning of Spirit Kings, log, she gained Solar at 20:52:02, and her next nuke was another Starfire. Also, if that log is correct, she started that fight in Lunar, not pre-Lunar (her first nuke was SS, and it gave positive (towards Solar) energy).
Edit: Author says energy is predictive.

The priority list on the website says it wants to cast CA during Eclipse. That is wrong. CA should (almost) always be cast just as you leave Eclipse. Feng the accursed, I don't see CA used at all. She used CA 18 times, but I didn't see it in the few fights I looked at.

#30 Stalv

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Posted 26 December 2012 - 03:55 PM

Hello,

Posting here on behalf of my wife, who is looking to improve her DPS.

Armory: Serathi @ Turalyon - Community - World of Warcraft

Log of a recent MSV clear: Details for Serathi - 12-12 20:07 - The Dottagers - World of Logs

She uses Ask Mr. Robot to optimize her gear which uses a stat priority of: Hit Haste (35.73%) > Crit > Haste > Mastery which seems reasonable, and also uses a spell flash add on to help with her rotation (Bitten's SpellFlash: Druid - Druid - World of Warcraft Addons - Curse) so I assume her rotation and gearing is fine, I would be very grateful if someone can advise on what she can do better based on the logs. Is she just losing too much dps when moving?


Alright mate. Chuck me a whisper in-game. I will be happy to help if it is still required.

#31 Kuruk

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:18 PM

How does Blossom of Pure Snow compare against Light of the Cosmos?

My SimulationCraft based calculations show Blossom of Pure Snow to come up ahead but I was wondering whether some of you had other results using different tools perhaps?

#32 gannonjf

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 07:49 PM

It's not even close, a little googling or reading any stickies would show that.

#33 Lazerdollarz

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 11:15 PM

There actually hasn't been an extensive discussion/testing of trinkets. If you don't need LoC for a haste breakpoint and SimC is telling you the Blossom is better for you, you're probably ok using it for any fight. Beyond that, on-use crit can be very powerful because you choose when to activate it. Especially on fights with critical burn periods (H Wind Lord, for example), an on-use trinket is going to be miles ahead of a random proc trinket regardless of the Patchwerk valuation of either.

#34 Kuruk

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:27 AM

It's not even close, a little googling or reading any stickies would show that.


Are you able to provide any links? I have read every single post on EJ and a fair amount on various other forums and blogs and I haven't found an in-depth discussion/analysis of trinkets anywhere yet.

All I could find was Slippykins's BiS thread on MMO Champion where he showed the numbers to prove that Essence of Terror HC and Light of the Cosmos HC are the two best trinkets with Relic of Yu'lon coming third. But that's not really relevant to my question.

And Graylo's gear list which puts Blossom of Pure Snow ahead of Light of the Cosmos at T14 normal gear levels.

#35 Hamlet

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 04:11 PM

I think WC has correct models in for them, although I've never actually gone in and made a list. I'll try taking a closer look soon.

#36 Dreedo

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:29 AM

Hey. Was thinking if anyone could check by this WoL. I think i probably did my absolute best on this attemt but still, i would like to know if there is anything that can be improved

Armory: Dreedo @ Kazzak - Community - World of Warcraft

WoL: Damage Done - 18-12 17:37 - The ÐreamCatchers - World of Logs

Check by all our attemts (atleast 3 first, after that i felt annoyed and i noticed i didnt put that much focus into the tries) and then the kill of amber-shaper.

Think i did my absolute best on that boss.

Note: During that boss i didnt have 4 set bonus - i had instead of my current LFR legs.

#37 markos82

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:05 AM

I read this thread so many times, I also looked armory of many and still cant decide what should i reforge now ( if i need to reforge anything ).

Can anyone please tell me if i need to reforge anything. I'm asking that since i feel my dps is low for gear i have.

Armory: Dragoness @ Aszune - Community - World of Warcraft

I'm also hoping that ill get 4 set bonus soon so how will i have to reforge then? Any help would be nice.

Also i will post one WoL.

WoL: Damage Done - 02-01 19:57 - Origin - World of Logs

I died some 20sec before kill.

#38 Dreedo

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:59 AM

you'r in feral gear so cant tell sorry. relogg in boomie spec and gear please

#39 markos82

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Posted 08 January 2013 - 03:59 PM

Done, now I am in moonkin gear :)

Probably left in feral since i OT some bosses.

#40 igdrassil

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 04:27 PM

Hello EJ !

I have a problem with the energy charges on Elegon 10 HC (although we just killed him), and I have been told to look up for a solution. Our strategy is 1dps per energy charge except our lock who just aoe them all, we have our two tanks take care of the last EC. One of my RL (the lock :rolleyes: ) is telling me that we should be able to clean 6 or 7 waves (70 or 80% debuff on Elegon per phase), however the wave n°5 is when I start losing my hair (and my feathers as a moonkin).

I use Inc+NV at the start of the fight so I can use them three times, when we hit P2 I just deal with the first 3 waves without any problems, the fourth wave can be difficult if RNG is being a bitch or if I screw up (I know I suck). I did cleaned the fifth wave a couple of times with amazing luck but this is usually my limit. I do “save” a SS proc for this wave if possible but that is still not anywhere near enough if I don't get big crits.

I know that I could/should use CA to help kill the fifth wave but even if I do the 6 and 7 are way out of my league (even if I save Inc and NV for them, I tried)
I could improve by lunar showering my way to the next eclipse, I get the feeling that my casts are way too slow and that I should be under NG for waves N°4 or 5 and those that follow.

I would really appreciate if you could give a fellow moonkin some tips/hints to perform better.
How many wave do you think you could clean “by yourself” ? How do you do it ? Is my RL crazy or not ?

My armory link : Igdrassil @ Sargeras - Communauté - World of Warcraft

WoL : Dashboard - 10-01 21:08 - Ars Magna - World of Logs

Edit for dragoness : I can see that you are short of your hit cap by 32 points.




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