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[Balance] Simple questions + WoL Feedback

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#81 Cowa


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Posted 20 June 2013 - 03:42 PM

Question - Treants with WuShoolays final choice trinket - I have finally gotten my hands on this little beauty and I am curious in regards to the Force of Nature treants, do they update their strength dynamically in some timeframe, or is their strength static upon when they are cast?

Sorry if this was already addressed I am just trying to figure out best time to pop them with this trinket.

#82 Slippykins


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Posted 01 July 2013 - 02:48 AM

Question - Treants with WuShoolays final choice trinket - I have finally gotten my hands on this little beauty and I am curious in regards to the Force of Nature treants, do they update their strength dynamically in some timeframe, or is their strength static upon when they are cast?

Sorry if this was already addressed I am just trying to figure out best time to pop them with this trinket.

Treants will gain any effect you currently have on immediately. Any effect is that gained or lost while they're already out will update with 2-3 casts. So your best bet is to pop them with your big damage modifiers already active, and try to time them so your treants will disappear within 2-3 casts of the buffs falling off. With Wushoolay's, I'd think that's about 8-10 seconds into the proc for optimal damage.

#83 Cranymoo


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Posted 01 July 2013 - 11:52 PM

Hello owls and beasts,

I have a few short questions and I hope someone can give me an answear.
I hope I can keep it short.

1. In the Moonkin Guide which is written by Hamlet, there is the following statement: “If both DoT's are coming up at around the same time when you start Eclipse, casting the non-Eclipse DoT first gives a very minor improvement due to Lunar Shower. “, but also there is the following statement: “When casting two DoTs at the beginning of Eclipse: cast the Eclipsed DoT, then the uneclipsed DoT (unless you expect to clip the Eclipsed DoT for any reason), then Starsurge if it's up. “

In my opinion only one of this statements can be true <.<
Or did I guess something wrong?

2. Megaera, dotting both or not?

I started raiding again after the progress on this boss, so it never thought that much about this fight.
I felt, that it is an single target dps increase to dot the useless head in the following situations:
- while moving around, cause someone moves to you with an AoE
- while moving backwards, to get at maximum range
- right before the main-head dies, while moving to the front

But what´s about the rest of the time? Actually, I double dot both. The second head has a lower priority, so I often let the dots run out and I only refresh them with NG+LMG and/or another major Haste Buff.

I know this are not “the most important questions ever” but this hurts my brain =( So I need to get this questions answered.

Yours sincerely, Cranymoo

#84 Erdluf


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Posted 02 July 2013 - 10:31 AM

For the first question, if both DoTs are currently down:

1) If you end up later clipping the Eclipsed DoT (movement, decide to refresh before leaving Eclipse, CA, ...) casting it second means there is a 75% chance that the clip will cost you one extra tick compared to if you had cast it first (GCD is 3/4 as long as a tick).
2) Whichever DoT you cast second will have direct damage 45% stronger than it would have been.

So, ignoring the chance that your non-LS buffs will increase or decrease between the first cast and the second, you need to predict whether or not you will end up clipping the Eclipsed DoT. If so, cast it first. If not, cast it second.

Note that making the wrong choice costs about 0.2% of your damage for the half-cycle.

#85 Hamlet


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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:54 PM

Yeah, it is inconsistent though. Meant to say cast uneclipsed first, but only changed it in one place.

And yeah, very tiny difference.

I should review the guide for updates generally, but since I might be trying a few N raids as Balance soon maybe I'll wait until then (for whatever intuitions I can get raiding in my Resto gear with 3000 haste).

I'll try to math out extra dotting if I focus on Balance again soon. Guess though is, probably not good except for free casts from moving. 2 GCD's is a lot of time spent doing 0 DPS. I'll try to see how many Starsurges it takes to make up for that. 2 DoTs with meta/NG (11 ticks each) and 50% raid crit (generous) is 3.3 SS procs. But there's a wastage issue here once your normal DoTs are already pulling in procs at such a high rate.

#86 Erdluf


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Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:38 PM

Napkin math for dotting things that don't matter, just to gain Starsurge procs:

Using as-downloaded WC numbers
Under similar conditions, with 2t15, instant SS has a DPET almost exactly 2.0 times SF (and even more ahead of Wrath). I'll do the SF comparison from here on:

1s of instant SS + 1s of do-nothing is equal DPS to 2s of SF (but generates a bit less energy). To break even (DPS) casting "meaningless" DoTs you need every DoT cast to generate one instant Starsurge. At 12 ticks per DoT, that happens at about 28% crit (12*0.28*0.3 == 1).

Some SS procs will be wasted, and you also want enough procs to make up for the energy (keep the cycle short), but todays raiders have much more than 28% crit in-raid. I suspect dotting the extra head is worthwhile, if you can avoid wasting too many SS procs.

#87 Hamlet


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Posted 02 July 2013 - 05:53 PM

Yeah, that's interesting. Forgot instant SS was twice the DPET of SF (need to add instant SS to sheet). Sort of like I hinted above, my intuition is off due to extremely low haste--multi-dotting anything is a huge pain because of how badly it cuts into NG uptime and ability to move through Eclipses fast.

Still need to figure out a way to get at this wastage problem generally. Maybe I could get 10k haste on PTR (no meta though) just to get back in touch with how things feel at high haste and how often procs come. The problem is that any simple objective model of wastage leads to very low values--in theory it only happens when a proc comes within 1GCD of a previous proc, before you cast SS. So that's part of why playing some would help; don't have a good feel for why people report such high wastage numbers generally.

Also, whole model will probably have to be reworked if you're actually spending most of your time casting SS. This was the problem when looking into multi-dotting initially.

#88 saeedswat


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Posted 08 August 2013 - 09:41 PM

Hello guys

My guild and I had like 14 tries on lei shen hc and everyone said my dps is kind of low, however I think my dps was enough with that gear. I felt my gear is kind of low for that boss.
I linked my armory and WOL here.

armroy : Iswat @ Ravencrest - Community - World of Warcraft

WOL : Details for Iswat - 08-08 19:54 - Swarm - World of Logs

Please let me know if i did anything worng. Waiting for your feedbacks


#89 Juvencus


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Posted 04 September 2013 - 05:24 PM

Seeking help for Lei Shen HC as well

My 10man guild is progressing Lei Shen 10HC (6.7% wipe yey) and I would like to ask you guys to have a look on my guild's logs (mainly for me but also the rest of the raid if possible)

26/08 : Dashboard - 26-08 17:56 - Causality - World of Logs

28/08 : Dashboard - 28-08 18:03 - Causality - World of Logs

29/08 : Dashboard - 29-08 18:07 - Causality - World of Logs

01/09 : Dashboard - 01-09 17:53 - Causality - World of Logs

03/09 : Dashboard - 03-09 17:54 - Causality - World of Logs

Obviously the logs in question are the latest but I added some more for reference.

My Armory: Juvencus @ Draenor - Community - World of Warcraft

#90 Sunshining


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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:57 PM

does anyone have a DoC weak aura string with these parameters?

1. an Aura that reminds you to cast Healing Touch with an audio and/or visual queue when you reach Direction+Ecplise(-60|60)
2. if the DoC buff is active play/show nothing
3. play audio / show aura when meta + ng are active if the doc buff isnt active

#91 Zendath


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Posted 21 October 2013 - 10:59 PM

Hey, I've recently swapped from balance to resto and am still getting the hang of working programs like Simcraft, however an issue I am having with it right now is it's giving me results that seem to differ with everyone else.  I am getting haste out to be my top stat (above crit by ~20%, can't remember exactly).  I am slightly past the 10289 HBP for my +4 ticks on both dots, and from what I can see on sims and gear choices other druids have Crit to be their top stat at this point.  My armoury link: http://eu.battle.net...endath/advanced.  This is all without editing the priority list in simcraft. When plotting a graph for my offstats, haste dips after increasing by a few hundred to be below crit again, I'm at a loss to what the cause of this could be; have I fucked up my simming or is this a correct result?


Additionally looking at a world of log parse from our Siegecrafter Blackfuse 25N last week, I have slightly sub 90% uptime on my dots, is this acceptable assuming that this is all caused by delaying reapplication of a DoT until entering the respective eclipse? http://www.worldoflo.../0/?s=695&e=981


Finally, to my knowledge FoN damage doesn't scale with Eclipse state (despite them casting solar abilities [wrath]) however they still scale with Stat procs (Int, Haste, Crit) which are not snapshotted.  Is this correct?



#92 Cloudio


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Posted 08 March 2014 - 09:16 AM


i got a quick question. I have tried to sim some friends to check the stats, but the simcraft is not showing any information regarding the weapon damage. 
For melee classes, weapon damage ( even weapon speed ) is very important so we pick up the weapon with higher damage stats. how does it go for boomkins ? if i have two weapons with similar stats but different weapon damage/speed, does it matter ?

#93 Surfacing


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Posted 26 March 2014 - 07:41 PM

Did SoO hc 25 man raid today ,and i think im doing shit dps on juggernaut. Like i would  post more, but i got like 10 dcs this night.
 this is a link of juggernaut. You can whatch  from immerseus till norushen if you want . The rest i got like early boss aggro and died :(
Would prefer some tipps to increase my dps- playing Balance since SoO Beta
Cheers and thanks - Surfacing :)

#94 Drunkendad


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Posted 02 April 2014 - 08:49 PM

Nevermind. Apparently this thread is dead.

Edited by Drunkendad, 04 April 2014 - 05:50 AM.

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