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[MoP] Protection Warrior


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#121 zork

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:35 PM

Has anyone tried avoidance tanking in heroics and can share any experience?

I tried it for some weeks, but I'm only able to do normal modes 10man (16/16). (Currently respecced to sta/mastery)

Avoidance tanking:
Avoidance trinkets (including STR trinkets for parry conversion), Avoidance gems, SBar only. As few mastery as possible. No stamina gem/trinkets.

I did not manage to go 7.5/15 hit/exp but I managed to get 7.5/7.4 which is not optimal but was sufficient. Avoidance landed at around 11% dodge, 23% parry unbuffed in 492 gear. Since I had no avoidance trinkets I used an exp/str and a str/str trinket.

I really liked how it felt. Of course I used the lowest SBar available to smooth out damage intake.

What I really dislike of Shield Block is the situational usage, the very high rage cost and that you actually need to stack mastery to make it viable. Of course the higher the mastery the more benefitial the critical block rewards will be.

Many heroic raid tanks seem to just go all out on stamina gems/trinkets while capping hit/exp and only reforging for mastery. So damage taken does not seem to be a problem at all.
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#122 idefiler6

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 07:46 PM

So you sacrificed all of those amazing stats for ~7% avoidance? How do you even notice a difference other than not being able to optimally use your active mitigation?

#123 Spazzster

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 11:11 AM

Hi All,

I'm not sure if this question is approrpriate to post here so moderators, feel free to delete and reprimand.

I'm wondering what sequence/abilities/talents/little furry rabbit feet - that other warrior tanks are using to pick up multiple adds spawning at multiple times...being dps'd with no regard for threat - Such as happens at the doors in Horridon.

The other fight that comes to mind where this might be a problem would be Tortos and the bats or (old content) Elegon ghosts (that said, most dps had a REALLY good excuse for not dpsing them until the tank had threat....namely...they'd get their face smacked in).

Obviously this question arises after I repeatedly had trouble on my 2 doors this evening and even though he's down....it was sketchy.

Help is appreciated!

#124 Foxxy

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 02:50 PM

I used to call our third tank.
The whirling and keg throwing Brewmaster made Horridon very easy for our 25 man raid.

I think your raid has to move and position a bit better, so you don't have to run between the adds.

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#125 Xaerran

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Posted 08 March 2013 - 10:52 PM

The other fight that comes to mind where this might be a problem would be Tortos and the bats or (old content) Elegon ghosts (that said, most dps had a REALLY good excuse for not dpsing them until the tank had threat....namely...they'd get their face smacked in).


Horridon's adds have a kill order, if you focus threat on the kill order targets you should be fine. Warriors have lots of abilities to generate threat on adds though, Heroic leap for initial threat, thunderclap on CD, revenge when possible, charge to new mobs (Double time is my preference), taunt any stragglers... banner down for the last set of adds that you cannot seem to pick up... DR to make sure everything follows you as you move around (I personally dont use Shockwave as the stun makes the mobs less prone to stick with me, some tanks really like SW though). I haven't had any problems with adds on Horridon as they are pretty controlled rate of entrance to the fight.

Hopefully this helps.

#126 AmeroGER

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 03:49 AM

Since 5.2 I've been getting the consistent result in simcraft that mastery is not only eclipsing dodge/parry but also hit/expertise in terms of avoidance. Can anybody else confirm this?

#127 Berthold

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 02:51 PM

Looks *very* slightly ahead if use SBlock / SBarrier. (due to the SBarrier Nerf, additional hit/expertise isn't too valuable here)
However with a SBarrier only build it is way down below.
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#128 Hemingway

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 01:53 PM

How is the new shield slam change gonna pan out?

MMO-Champion - Patch 5.3 PTR - Build 16837, Patch 5.3 PTR Notes - April 11 Update

Buff or not?

#129 Berthold

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 02:06 PM

Assuming that gte(level,85) means "greater than or equal" the expression evaluates to 150% AP which is way more than the current 120%. We will know more as soon as simcraft has latest dbc files.
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#130 Dots

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 06:33 PM

This might just be the tooltip correction for the 25% damage buff hotfix that is already live.
GC mentioned on twitter that Shield Slam damage will be reduced at lower levels in 5.3, which would explain the other part.

#131 duhwhat

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Posted 14 April 2013 - 10:22 PM

Will simulationcraft soon include prot warriors in its simulationcraft.org reference data? I am having a lot of difficulty getting the current version to run, whereas 430-4 was running fine when I last used it. Tried installing every version of VC++ 2008, 2010, 2012, x86 and 64, openssl 101c and 101e, no luck. Clicking simulationcraft.exe doesn't do anything; program appears in tasklist for a few seconds and then disappears.

#132 Berthold

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Posted 17 April 2013 - 12:54 PM

As long as we do not have properly working modules for all tank classes, I wouldn't expect any update on simcraft.org in this regard. You might want to create an issue at simcraft's website, this EJ thread isn't really the appropriate place to handle this.
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#133 omgacow

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 12:12 AM

So I'm noticing shield barrier giving me way less damage taken under most parts. I really only use shield block when I am trying to do more damage (enrage+glyph of heavy repercussions). If I am already hit/exp capped should I still get mastery or should i just do hit > exp >parry > dodge > mastery

#134 Yaargh

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 02:49 AM

Shield Barrier only will give you less total damage taken, Shield Block only will give you smoother damage intake. Hybrid strats aren't better, other than things that are not blockable or not absorbable.

#135 omgacow

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Posted 22 April 2013 - 11:26 PM

Shield Barrier only will give you less total damage taken, Shield Block only will give you smoother damage intake. Hybrid strats aren't better, other than things that are not blockable or not absorbable.


I understand, but avoidance scales better with shield barrier than mastery does, and mastery works better with shield block. Is it worth it to gem/reforge avoidance and use only shield barrier

#136 Yaargh

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 12:12 AM

I currently choose to do that for our 10-man group. Mobs generally don't hit hard enough in 10-man to make spikes super dangerous so in talking with my healers we opted for the lower total damage taken. This means I do less damage than other warriors (no heavy repercussions) but it has worked for us so far.

#137 MysticalOS

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 08:37 AM

I'm still using hybrid personally. I use Sbar spam for max active mitigation but when damage isn't threatening or when tanking multiple targets, i still like my good ole shield block. Also, shield block is total win on heroic megara when you have a head that has 100% increased attack speed. It levels out damage so much better than shield barrier. Late to discussion, but in the end it's just all situational for me really. Cannot really dispute shield block for something like dread thrash or a super fast attack speed mob or a bunch of mobs meleeing at once, vs some boring slow swing speed boss which clearly favors SBar no questions asked. Fortunately, blizz throws a mix of each at us. I could reforge all the time, but ultimately I just favor a hybrid build. Heck, back to megara, i actually need the hybrid build. Shield barrier spam on fire head for example but shield block on frenzied venom head with a barrier weaved in for breaths (since head doesn't melee swing during that).

#138 idefiler6

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 03:52 AM

I understand, but avoidance scales better with shield barrier than mastery does, and mastery works better with shield block. Is it worth it to gem/reforge avoidance and use only shield barrier


It really isn't, even if you forwent hit and expertise to solely focus on dodge and parry, the DR would hit you so hard in the face you'd barely get any value from it. Block is best for more fights than barrier (excepting situations where it's prudent to slide a barrier in, such as breaths). Mastery is still ahead.

#139 Booi

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 11:24 PM

It really isn't, even if you forwent hit and expertise to solely focus on dodge and parry, the DR would hit you so hard in the face you'd barely get any value from it. Block is best for more fights than barrier (excepting situations where it's prudent to slide a barrier in, such as breaths). Mastery is still ahead.


I'm not sure why people continue to perpetuate this line of thought. Parry rating always provides more combat table coverage than mastery regardless of where you are on the DR curve. And given that we can't have 100% up-time on shield block, it makes a lot of sense to gear for the 3 second gaps.

Mastery ends up being ~22% better than avoidance during shield block in terms of TDR, but falls to 55% of it's value between blocks. Gearing for when we are vulnerable is not a mistake.

#140 Kaytonnus

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 04:29 PM

This avoidance vs. mastery debate is quite interesting.  I may be wrong, but I figured avoidance will become a better option once I have a larger health pool to provide healers time to recover on the spikes in damage. So I'm just waiting to have a pair of stam trinks.






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