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Advanced Death Knight Tactics


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#121 Yubble

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 08:29 PM

... would it not make sense to use *any* runes (even DD) on OB whenever you can remain GCD locked while doing so?


I think that depends entirely upon whether or not you're capping runes - a situation in which you literally can't spend your runes faster than they seem to be refreshing. Definitely happens to me during bloodlust at my current haste level, at which point I do indeed burn runes as fast as possible (i.e. Obliterate), no matter what the combination, in order to maximize RP gen and minimize rune-capping.

However, if you're remaining GCD locked for extended periods of time AND burning runes with Oblit constantly, then you've got a haste problem (you're too hasty).

#122 Jeges

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:05 PM

I don't have a ton of Mastery (~11K unbuffed). Looking at my averages from last night, FS is 147K for noncrits. OB 99K. HB 144K.

Particularly if we're overflowing with resources, any KM procs will be spent on Frost Strikes, that doesn't change. Just to address the question of what to do without KM, when overflowing, let's pretend that there's no difference in crit rate for spells versus strikes. Frost Strike is our top choice, so the question is whether to fill in with Howling Blast or Obliterate. We can disregard Rime procs when considering Obliterate, because if Obliterate is better than Howling Blast when HB gives 12 RP, it's much better than HB when it gives zero RP. So our rotation is either:

FS-OB-FS-OB-FS-OBetc.

or

FS-HB-HB-FS-HB-HB-etc.

In other words, which does more damage: 3x FS + 3x OB, or 2x FS + 4x HB?

In my case, the answer is the latter, and during periods of absolute resource glut it's better to let runes cap out than to waste GCDs on anything other than FS and HB.

Of course this only holds true if you are absolutely resource capped. The instant you get back to the point where you could use a lower output but less wasteful rotation (i.e. not letting runes rot, not ignoring Rime procs, etc.) you should.

#123 Yubble

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:19 PM

...which does more damage: 3x FS + 3x OB, or 2x FS + 4x HB?

In my case, the answer is the latter, and during periods of absolute resource glut it's better to let runes cap out than to waste GCDs on anything other than FS and HB...


Fair enough. You haven't factored in Rime's value, though, which in reality might put 3xOB ahead, but that's moot if you're GCD locked anyway.

I think we're dealing in "what-ifs" and hypotheticals right now and should probably either let this specific argument rest or wait to bring it up again once we have so much haste that this actually becomes a common problem.

#124 Scyzek

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 02:49 PM

I picked up a skeer's talisman this last week, and after running new sims on myself haste has jumped a considerable gain as my second best secondary stat. Before reforging into haste, haste was valued at roughly 7-8% more than crit. After reforging into haste, it's now between 15-20% more valuable than crit. Skeer's is a really tricky thing since the proc along with KM turns crit into a less effective stat. Has anybody else picked up a skeer's and ran into this? I'm altering playstyle a little bit when it procs to not burn km FS hits, and especially burn HB during aoe when its up. Really short duration but I think it might be a fair enough gain to track it.

#125 Kurg

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 12:22 PM

I picked up a skeer's talisman this last week, and after running new sims on myself haste has jumped a considerable gain as my second best secondary stat. Before reforging into haste, haste was valued at roughly 7-8% more than crit. After reforging into haste, it's now between 15-20% more valuable than crit. Skeer's is a really tricky thing since the proc along with KM turns crit into a less effective stat. Has anybody else picked up a skeer's and ran into this? I'm altering playstyle a little bit when it procs to not burn km FS hits, and especially burn HB during aoe when its up. Really short duration but I think it might be a fair enough gain to track it.


Even if simulations are telling you to prioritize haste over crit, I found myself very much resource capped at the 70% haste you have now. I am not convinced that keeping such high haste values and swapping to an obliterate priority during high resource periods is a gain over sticking with mastery>crit>haste, but more importantly it just feels wrong to sit there rune capped for any length of time. As for Skeers, if anything I think it encourages a crit priority more than haste, as you wouldn't be forced to burn more runes on obliterate and wouldn't waste KM procs. Plus, even when fully stacked you wouldn't reach the crit cap for HB.

#126 Mendenbarr

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 10:24 AM

Running your armory profile tells me that crit beats haste, even with the mere 4.5k you have.
Crit:2.93
Haste: 2.73

Reforging 6000 crit into haste bumps crit up to 3.24 and haste down to 2.36 just as expected. Not seeing haste higher than crit at any point.

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