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Like Water - The Brewmaster Discussion Thread


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#21 Bemxuu

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 08:57 PM

Thats why I said double BM, not just one. As long as there isnt constant AoE damage going on (like H will), you can shield the whole raid. Think Blade Lord, there isnt much aoe damage going on before Unseen Strike so you could get statue shield on everyone and just eat it without cooldowns. Or on Amber Shaper in p2, if most slimes are dead in later p2 you could shield the raid and eat amber explosion (for whatever reason). Just examples what you could do that might allow some weirdness in t15.

Preventing constant AoE damage like H will is nice, but wasn't really what I was going for.

Problem with Xuen isnt that taunting mobs is necessarily "bad" (unless we are talking spirit kings, thats just stupid), its that more often than not it dies because it taunts adds. Also since it acts as a guardian rather than pet healers have a hard time getting around to heal it.

If I'm lucky with my guess that each BM would be stacking stuff independently, that means there might be someone who will not be covered by shields and, therefore, will likely die to that Big Boom. Also, it is very rare for multiple tanks to have high vengeance simultaneously. Without Vengeance Guard will be absorbing little to nothing. I'm not saying it will be completely useless... It just requires quite a rare coincidence of fight gimmicks like high vengeance+high damage opportunities immediately followed by raid-wide AoE. And that still leaves a chance that someone particularly squishy will not be covered by any shields. It's randomness of such tactic that makes it highly unreliable => undesirable.

Yeah, t h a t part of Xuen is smth I don't like as well. Fella seems to last long enough, though...

#22 Kraun

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:47 PM

Thanks for putting this guide together it is quite helpful.

Though I would also add Glyph of enduring healing sphere as a great option when one of the other glyphs isn't needed. It works with GotOx procs. For fights with tank swapping it is a great way to save unneeded GotOx procs that would otherwise go to waste.

#23 Pisshands

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:29 AM

Thanks for putting this guide together it is quite helpful.

Though I would also add Glyph of enduring healing sphere as a great option when one of the other glyphs isn't needed. It works with GotOx procs. For fights with tank swapping it is a great way to save unneeded GotOx procs that would otherwise go to waste.


An interesting note. I have precast Healing Spheres on a few hard fights. I suppose one always should, mathematically speaking. It's free healing on demand.
I have not had many GotOx procs go unused for 2 minutes, but we do not have many excellent glyph options, either, so I suppose it could have some value in certain situations.

#24 Yörgle

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:33 AM

Very nice guide, thanks for that Pisshands (... dafuq is that nick ^^).

I think it would be nice to add Sunnier's weak auras, or at least the one for Stagger which is GREAT. Brewmaster Weak Auras - Sunnier's Art of War I don't how Tao is working now but on the beta it was a bit laggy, in terms of refreshing the value / color while the aura is really well made and easy to read.

#25 Kraun

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:46 PM

An interesting note. I have precast Healing Spheres on a few hard fights. I suppose one always should, mathematically speaking. It's free healing on demand.
I have not had many GotOx procs go unused for 2 minutes, but we do not have many excellent glyph options, either, so I suppose it could have some value in certain situations.


Healing spheres last 2 min. but GotOx spheres only last 20 seconds as I recall. I'll have to go in and see if they changed this, but I believe this is how it still is. Either way since there are few good choices for us on glyphs I think EHS is a good one. Thanks again and keep up the good work!

#26 Pisshands

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 06:53 PM

Healing spheres last 2 min. but GotOx spheres only last 20 seconds as I recall. I'll have to go in and see if they changed this, but I believe this is how it still is. Either way since there are few good choices for us on glyphs I think EHS is a good one. Thanks again and keep up the good work!


I tested it out myself, and you are right. GotOx last only 20 sec by default and the glyph takes it to 3:20. Not a bad choice for fights with tanks swaps, adding it to the list.

#27 Larrabee

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:43 PM

Elusive Brew uptime is a function of crit chance, hit, expertise and haste


Hit & Expertise does not matter for Elusive Brew, only haste and crit.

#28 Moozhe

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 11:46 PM

On the subject of Xuen, he has saved my life on Heroic Shek'zeer adds and he survives surprisingly well.

Based on my logs, I think he inherits our dodge and parry. I've had him offtank an add for over 30 seconds before dying. I think with the Chi Wave buff in 5.2 we will be able to keep him up much better.

I think perhaps they should design him similar to the way Glyph of Leer of the Ox works (Glyph of Leer of the Tiger?) so that we can situationally choose who (and if) he should taunt.

#29 Pisshands

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:32 AM

Hit & Expertise does not matter for Elusive Brew, only haste and crit.


Yep. I thought I had fixed that a week ago.

On the subject of Xuen, he has saved my life on Heroic Shek'zeer adds and he survives surprisingly well.

Based on my logs, I think he inherits our dodge and parry. I've had him offtank an add for over 30 seconds before dying. I think with the Chi Wave buff in 5.2 we will be able to keep him up much better.

I think perhaps they should design him similar to the way Glyph of Leer of the Ox works (Glyph of Leer of the Tiger?) so that we can situationally choose who (and if) he should taunt.


I'll do some digging through my logs to see on the dodge and parry inheritance. It may be. Chi Wave will definitely help keep him up when he taunts. My biggest issue with him taunting is the absence of a Vengeance transfer.
As for actively choosing who and when he taunts, I decidedly agree.

#30 sabiczech

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:32 PM

Guys is there a way how to track guards casted by statue? I would like to show my guild how the statue is valuable, but healing export from my recount is counting only EH, Chi Wave etc.

BTW great guide Pisshands!!!

#31 Crevan

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 01:54 PM

I believe Skada tracks statue absorbs. They will also show in world of logs reports.

#32 Tsaeb

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 05:55 PM

I believe Skada tracks statue absorbs. They will also show in world of logs reports.


Both will show 2 instances of Guard, the one cast by statue should be higher frequency and on WoL won't have the self healing increase in the tooltip.

#33 Pisshands

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Posted 06 January 2013 - 10:00 PM

Both will show 2 instances of Guard, the one cast by statue should be higher frequency and on WoL won't have the self healing increase in the tooltip.


It also will not have a mana Chi cost, which is how I believe WoL differentiates between the two.

#34 Yörgle

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 06:58 AM

Yeah the statue's guard have a different TT in WoL, easily spottable by many caracteristics, one of the being them amount (in the tooltip, not the real amount) being flat -and not function of the AP- and a 100 yd range.

Examples, with the same log :
MY guard : Spell details for Garde - 07-01 20:53 - Quichons - World of Logs
Statue's guad : Spell details for Garde - 07-01 20:53 - Quichons - World of Logs

Guys is there a way how to track guards casted by statue? I would like to show my guild how the statue is valuable, but healing export from my recount is counting only EH, Chi Wave etc.

On this fight, where I recall forgetting to recast my statue from one Zor'Lok's spot to another, it did 23k HPS (with, obviously a modest active time, but still ~4% of the healing on this pull). I don't find that so bad, actually very good for something you don't have to care once the statue is correctly placed ! :)

Hope that helped, and if no one is WoL-ing in your guild, you shoud do it. It's pretty easy and it's a good tool !

#35 sabiczech

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:16 PM

On this fight, where I recall forgetting to recast my statue from one Zor'Lok's spot to another, it did 23k HPS (with, obviously a modest active time, but still ~4% of the healing on this pull). I don't find that so bad, actually very good for something you don't have to care once the statue is correctly placed ! :)

Hope that helped, and if no one is WoL-ing in your guild, you shoud do it. It's pretty easy and it's a good tool !

Yeah, none of my guild mates is WOLing, we are more like casual players, at least before 5.2:-). My question was more about recount, because that’s my main tool for measuring dmg taken/done, healing taken/done etc. I can obviously install Skada, but maybe there is some magic box that’s need to be checked in recount options. I have to test it with guildie today and find that “box” :-). 23k HPS seems pretty solid to me, I made WA to track my buff from statue so I won’t forget to recast it. Thx for help anyway!

#36 Crevan

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:20 PM

Recount will not track it, most probably for the same reasons it does not track blood shield absorbs for death knights.

#37 Netukka

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 12:07 AM

Quick note from the latest hotfix on live.

You can buy another from the VP vendor and if you are using DW Sha-Touched weapons, you CAN put an extra prismatic socket in both weapons and gem them. Can be seen from armory as well.

#38 Portrero

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:36 AM

Some of the initial t15 set bonuses were posted

Item - Monk T15 Brewmaster 2P Bonus (New) After Elusive Brew expires, the amount of damage you Stagger is increased by 12%. This effect lasts 1 sec per stack of Elusive Brew consumed.
Item - Monk T15 Brewmaster 4P Bonus (New) Each time you take damage from Stagger, you have a 10% chance to make your next Purifying Brew cost no Chi.
Item - Monk T15 Windwalker 2P Bonus (New) Your Chi generating abilities have a 15% chance to generate an Energy Sphere, which will grant you 10 Energy when you walk through it .
Item - Monk T15 Windwalker 4P Bonus (New) You have a 10% chance to gain an additional charge of Tigereye Brew every time you gain a charge of Tigereye Brew.


Both BM bonuses look pretty good, but so does the WW 2pc. Might be worth using 2pc + 2pc over 4pc.

#39 Netukka

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 09:49 AM

Very quick napkin math regarding set bonuses.

Assuming stagger is always ticking on you, on average the 4pc BM set bonus gives you one free chi every 10 seconds (which can only be used to PB).

2pc WW on average gives 10 energy every 6.67 chi generator, which all cost 40 energy (ignore CJL). So after 26.67 attacks you've generated enough bonus energy for one extra chi. Assuming 15 energy/sec regen, that would take 72 seconds.

Not really a contest, assuming you are staggering damage. That said, BM bonuses look REALLY good. With the mastery buff, if you went for like 15k mastery with t15 gear, you'd be approaching 90% stagger with fort brew and 2pc up.

#40 Bemxuu

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Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:18 AM

Another few points:
1. Big idea for tanking T15 is: 2T - moar healz, 4T - moar resourcez! Our tier is an exception.
2. I believe I already am at 15% mastery raidbuffed w/ my Stuff and Bottle. That'd be 67% total stagger percentage under 2T15 effect. Given that it might be an option to cancelaura EB for immediate 12% stagger (similar druid tier worked this way in Firelands, i think), we have a good option for mitigating undodgeable damage. Like if everything else wasn't enough.
3. I'd go for 2T15 with 2 pieces of upgraded heroic T14. I simply don't like the concept "take more damage to take less damage". It might be good for monks running with low haste and mastery, though, since they won't get hit frequently and will be sitting on green stagger much more often, than I do, and benefit from free PB more, than I do.
4. 2T15 increases value of crit for BMs until EB's uptime reaches 50% in the long run. Afterwards it's value should be lower. Still higher than it is now, I guess. After buffs to mastery and removal of T30 Chi cost, I will have a chunk of stats available, and now I know where to put them :)

Edit: I never said we should aim for 50% uptime. I still think smoothening DTPS is our best tactic. We have other cooldowns to use and be used. For instance, one should not use Dampen Harm together with other cooldowns unless that is necessary to survive that Big Boom - it is just an overkill. Using guard together with elusive also turns on your Chuck mode for a short while, but leaves you without anything to cover your kung fu ass when they both fade. Same for Fortifying Brew. And that's before accounting for tank swaps. I just said the value of crit will be higher.




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