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Like Water - The Brewmaster Discussion Thread


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#541 Runeheal

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Posted 15 January 2014 - 06:09 PM

Hello, and thank you for the feedback so far, it has been useful.

 

I did not, since we usually swapped at four stacks, I did not have time to position the add on a sawblade before Death From Above. I did try tanking a normal attempt, and logs show the sawblade did almost 20% of the damage to the add. This was with kiting him out and tanking him on a sawblade it as soon as he spawned. The sawblade seemed to hit the boss for 35k twice every second - this is not a negligible amount.

 

 

That is a very good point, and not something I considered!

 

Based on your response, I assume you take three stacks of the boss-debuff and kite the add out as soon as it spawns?

Yeah, I take 3 stacks then run out.

 

There's no warrior in the raid group, but if there was, I'd make them drop skull banner for me during the first death from above, and not for anyone else. This would reliably allow me to kill the shredder before the fourth overload, unless nothing crit at all with ~70% crit.

 

Usually don't get many stacks of superheated on the first shredder, but the second I tank in fire the whole time, so that does a bunch of damage at 20 stacks during DFA.

 

@Gorbachop, I'd recommend grabbing diffuse magic if you can help it, and during the blood rage phases, use tiger's lust and sprint around soaking orbs with diffuse magic + zen meditation, seeing as the other tank is soloing it. You actually get pretty big vengeance from soaking a ton of orbs, and you can follow up with a massive guard and soak more.

 

However, if that's not needed, rotate cooldowns so you have dampen harm, fortifying brew, and dampen harm for each time you are tanking the boss with ~10 stacks, to carry you through to the end of 15 or whatever.

 

If you're a dangerous man, deliberately dip below 35% health, and replace jab with expel harm. When your shield is off when you are not tanking the boss you can use glyph of targeted expulsion to spam heals on the other tank. I wouldn't recommend it if you're dying, but if the reason you're dying is because your healers are struggling, then it's something to consider doing, even if you just take the glyph on the off chance you dip below 35%, and don't purposefully allow yourself to fall that low.


Edited by Runeheal, 17 January 2014 - 05:14 AM.


#542 Gorbachop

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Posted 16 January 2014 - 08:05 PM

@Gorbachop, I'd recommend grabbing diffuse magic if you can help it, and during the blood rage phases, use tiger's lust and sprint around soaking orbs with diffuse magic + zen meditation, seeing as the other tank is soloing it. You actually get pretty big vengeance from soaking a ton of orbs, and you can follow up with a massive guard and soak more.

 

However, if that's not needed, rotate cooldowns so you have dampen harm, fortifying brew, and dampen harm for each time you are tanking the boss with ~10 stacks, to carry you through to the end of 15 or whatever.

 

If you're a dangerous man, deliberately dip below 35% health, and replace jab with expel harm. When your shield is off, you can use glyph of targeted expulsion to spam heals on the tank. I wouldn't recommend it if you're dying, but if the reason you're dying is because your healers are struggling, then it's something to consider doing, even if you just take the glyph on the off chance you dip below 35%, and don't purposefully allow yourself to fall that low.

 

Thanks for the input.

 

I've gotten a decent amount more gear since last time we did heroic malk but it's been two weeks since we've tried him. Attendance issues and then the servers being down yesterday have hampered our ability to raid consistently. On Iron Jugg Tuesday night, the healers said I was significantly easier to keep alive than the previous week so I hope a combination of gear and taking the suggestions here about my execution has helped.

 

Thanks again guys.



#543 Nerz

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 12:25 PM

 

After that I take a 4th stack, immediately snapshot Xuen with the ~280k vengeance I get, then blow the next shredder the fuck up, because you really want to kill the second shredder as fast as possible, since that's when extra overloads are going to cause deaths.

 

1. Xuen does not snapshot vengeance.

 

2. I´m pretty shure xuen doesnt profit from your debuff stack, so it´s pretty wasted on the shredder.

 

just wanted to add this



#544 Pisshands

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:12 PM

1. Xuen does not snapshot vengeance.

 

2. I´m pretty shure xuen doesnt profit from your debuff stack, so it´s pretty wasted on the shredder.

 

just wanted to add this

 

http://us.battle.net.../blog/10932273/

 

Pets have not snapshotted Vengeance since MoP came out. Electrostatic Charge was hotfixed to apply to Xuen four months ago, on November 4.



#545 Nerz

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 01:20 PM

Okay that was right after our firstkill. 

 

while we progressed on blackfuse, xuen was absolutely wasted on the shredders, never tried it again since then.

 

Thanks for the info anyway :)



#546 morgrel

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 02:29 PM

Hi,

i have a trinket related question:

 

on my monk i use  Renataki's Soul Charm (heroic) and Ticking Ebon Detonator (flex) becouse dps keep stealing trinkets from me becouse they say that they need them more.

Recently i have put my hands on Purified Bindings of Immerseus for my healing gear (becouse all other intellect-related class already have it) and i'm wondering if i can use it becouse i have seen a lot of BM using the strength one from thok.

It's worth of using it? for the augmentation?



#547 Nevernite

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 03:33 PM

Generally not worth to lose the AGI proc. A STR proc would be somewhat arguable but since INT doesn't get you anything as a Brewmaster stick with your current two trinkets.


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#548 morgrel

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Posted 09 February 2014 - 04:56 PM

Generally not worth to lose the AGI proc. A STR proc would be somewhat arguable but since INT doesn't get you anything as a Brewmaster stick with your current two trinkets.

 

Yes the int proc doesn't give me anything but it's the amplify bonus that is strong, i have around 66% buffed crit and 9% improvement on my crit damage&healing is an huge improvement i think plus 9% extra haste & mastery

Thok's strenght trinket is same as this one: the strength proc gives us a very little extra parry so basicaly all BM tank use it for the amplify effect.

This one is stronger (becouse it's heroic) so why not use it?

 

P.S.: another question i have seen a lot of BM using warfoged pieces instead of "set" ones giving up the set bonuses for extra stats, it's worth?


Edited by morgrel, 09 February 2014 - 04:57 PM.


#549 Nevernite

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 01:01 AM

You could transform these percentage bonuses into stats and look for yourself if it is worth it.

 

7% of 10k rating are 700 rating. Lets just assume you have 10k haste and 10k mastery. The statgain you will have equals 1400 combined stats. Spirit is worthless. The crit damage bonus can be ignored more or less. The crit heal bonus gives you around 4-5% average increased heal since only critical heals benefit from it. (7% * 0.66)

 

Compare this to e.g. Ticking Ebon Detonator(N10). It brings an item budget of 1959 Mastery or 1176 mastery and 783 crit/haste/hit/expertise  and still has an AGI proc, which also increases your selfheal and crit chance.

 

Correct me if I am wrong. But I don't see it being better than any of your original two trinkets.

 

 

Can't tell you too much about breaking the set bonuses. Personally I broke both set bonuses because I have either heroic or warforged gear and I rather have more stats.


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#550 Pisshands

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 02:26 AM

You could transform these percentage bonuses into stats and look for yourself if it is worth it.

 

7% of 10k rating are 700 rating. Lets just assume you have 10k haste and 10k mastery. The statgain you will have equals 1400 combined stats. Spirit is worthless. The crit damage bonus can be ignored more or less. The crit heal bonus gives you around 4-5% average increased heal since only critical heals benefit from it. (7% * 0.66)

 

Compare this to e.g. Ticking Ebon Detonator(N10). It brings an item budget of 1959 Mastery or 1176 mastery and 783 crit/haste/hit/expertise  and still has an AGI proc, which also increases your selfheal and crit chance.

 

Correct me if I am wrong. But I don't see it being better than any of your original two trinkets.

 

 

Can't tell you too much about breaking the set bonuses. Personally I broke both set bonuses because I have either heroic or warforged gear and I rather have more stats.

 

You're actually more right than you know. For starters, you greatly overestimated the potential crit healing gain from an amplification trinket. Agility only grants Crit chance to physical abilities, so the crit chances of Expel Harm, GotOx, Healing Sphere and Chi Wave, etc., are only going to be what you gain from Crit rating and the 5% raid Crit buff (between 30-35%, presumably). More importantly, Guard and the 4pc (if you wear it), can not Crit. Additionally, Crit heals are inherently overvalued. While Crit Expel Harms have certainly saved my bacon, the overwhelming majority of Crit healing is overhealing, and the Amplification trinket only exacerbates that.

The reason one wears an Amp trinket is for dps, and you're not to that point if you're wearing Flex gear.

 

As for the set bonuses, the 2pc is a nice ~3% self-healing bump. Not shabby, but not worth acquiring if you have to drop from Heroic to Normal to match the set. The 4pc is a modest amount of off-GCD healing that can be extremely useful in particularly hard-hitting encounters like Thok, Paragons (Ka'roz in particular), and Garrosh.

 

The 4pc is contingent upon the boss dealing high physical damage, but it is still useful against a boss who deals a mixture of physical and spell damage. Garrosh is the primary example. I died more on Garrosh to ticks of Gripping Despair between successful autoattacks than anything else, and a quick 6-figure heal from PB can counteract the damage of Despair long enough to get a larger heal.


Edited by Pisshands, 10 February 2014 - 02:30 AM.


#551 morgrel

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 02:43 PM

Sorry maybe i have not explain well my char gear, i'm not flex-geared, i'm full normal with 4-5 heroic pieces (around 570ilvl) except for trinkets and the Immerseus trinket i'm talking about is the heroic one.

So basicaly if i use Thok's one for dps, i think that i can use the Immersus Heroic one for dps having it more amplify (9% upgraded) than Thok's one (8% normal upgraded)?

 


As for the set bonuses, the 2pc is a nice ~3% self-healing bump. Not shabby, but not worth acquiring if you have to drop from Heroic to Normal to match the set.

 

Worth of acquiring if u have to drop from Normal Warforged to Normal?



#552 Pisshands

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 05:50 PM

Heroic Int and regular Thok's are going to be fairly close.

 

As for set bonus, it depends on the secondaries you're trading. If you're trading good secondaries for bad ones (e.g., Gloves of the Golden Protector vs. Gauntlets of Seven Sacred Seals), no.


Edited by Pisshands, 10 February 2014 - 05:50 PM.


#553 Tazic

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:46 PM

Thinking about trying out the Spreedsheet featured and im not sure if its 80-100% reliable as i've been using Askmr.robot for ages

and i feel i gem and stuff the wrong way

http://eu.battle.net...e/Sinese/simple

recently started doing heroic 10 man currently on the protectors

 

may aswell ask if there is something i can improve cause having 1035977 health makes me look like a heroic warforged geared...

 

11k haste ye i know but i feel i have to slow regen if i have lower.. always waiting for dat energy

34% Crit would love to have closer that 60% but im not sure...

Hit and expertise is just to high.. trying to gem and reforge out of it but omg so hard...

Mastery is ok i guess?

 

Windsong on both is bad i know but getting Dancing steel is hard :/

 

anything i can improve? as i feel im doing wrong



#554 Nevernite

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 08:45 PM

I hope you've read Pisshand's Introduction to Brewmasters if not - well,.. do that first ;)

It should explain fairly well how you should equip your Brewmaster. As a Brewmaster you don't get an additional bonus from stamina (as DK's do). Monks don't need that much stamina in the first place, because of their mastery.

You get less incoming damage in one strike anyways. In that regard you should only get as much stamina as you need to live through the highest damage attacks. Stamina gives you a buffer, so that healers have time to actually heal you before you die. But stamina in itself doesn't provide any damage mitigation. Mastery+Purify does.

Generally you would only want 'some' stamina if you are raiding 25-man or heroic, but even then not that much.


Edited by Nevernite, 12 February 2014 - 08:54 PM.

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#555 Pisshands

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Posted 12 February 2014 - 09:29 PM

I hope you've read Pisshand's Introduction to Brewmasters if not - well,.. do that first ;)

It should explain fairly well how you should equip your Brewmaster. As a Brewmaster you don't get an additional bonus from stamina (as DK's do). Monks don't need that much stamina in the first place, because of their mastery.

You get less incoming damage in one strike anyways. In that regard you should only get as much stamina as you need to live through the highest damage attacks. Stamina gives you a buffer, so that healers have time to actually heal you before you die. But stamina in itself doesn't provide any damage mitigation. Mastery+Purify does.

Generally you would only want 'some' stamina if you are raiding 25-man or heroic, but even then not that much.

 

Monks get +20% Stamina, Warriors get 15%, Paladins get +25%, Death Knights get +39%, and, since 5.4, Druids get +40%. More importantly, Mastery is worth more effective health than Stamina, point-for-point, and Mastery is much cheaper than Stamina (320 Mastery vs. 240 Stamina). Additionally, each point of Mastery is worth slightly more Effective Health than the one before it. As such, there is no reason to ever gem Stamina instead of Mastery unless doing a fight that features no physical damage, of which there has been only one in MoP (Lei Shi in Terrace of the Endless Spring).

 

Crit is an incontestably more effective stat for damage reduction than Mastery over the course of a fight, but Mastery provides resilience against burst. If you're looking to play a mitigation-centric sponge tank, which I don't prefer but do not actively discourage, Mastery is overwhelmingly more effective and efficient than Stamina.

 

In the simplest terms, I recommend a mix of Crit and Mastery. Mastery is the cushion stat and Crit is the damage reduction stat. You want to put as much of your item budget as you can into Crit while keeping as much Mastery as you need to not be splattered by consecutive autoattacks.Those values are a matter of experience and preference. As for Haste, a lot of people assume 8k is a magic number. It isn't. Haste gearing is, again, a matter of experience, preference, and comfort, and it provides a greater quantity of heals through increased GotOx procs and more Energy/Chi for Expel Harm/PB/Guard.


Edited by Pisshands, 12 February 2014 - 10:00 PM.


#556 morgrel

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Posted 13 February 2014 - 09:05 PM

Stamina is good only for heavy magical-damage encounters where mastery doesn't work.






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