Jump to content


Photo

Like Water - The Brewmaster Discussion Thread


  • Please log in to reply
584 replies to this topic

#41 Pisshands

Pisshands

    A.K.A. Mr. Classy

  • • Guide Author
  • 187 posts

Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:22 AM

Very quick napkin math regarding set bonuses.

Assuming stagger is always ticking on you, on average the 4pc BM set bonus gives you one free chi every 10 seconds (which can only be used to PB).

2pc WW on average gives 10 energy every 6.67 chi generator, which all cost 40 energy (ignore CJL). So after 26.67 attacks you've generated enough bonus energy for one extra chi. Assuming 15 energy/sec regen, that would take 72 seconds.

Not really a contest, assuming you are staggering damage. That said, BM bonuses look REALLY good. With the mastery buff, if you went for like 15k mastery with t15 gear, you'd be approaching 90% stagger with fort brew and 2pc up.


I think that 2pc may change the way we use Elusive Brew. I'm not certain on that, mind you, but if we use EB at 5 stacks, that's 5 seconds of EB and 5 seconds of 2-piece with only a 9-second cooldown on EB. I don't think current gear provides crit chances that can quite support 100% uptime of EB/2-piece, but it may be possible next tier. If that does become a possibility, this will provide significant damage reduction over the course of a fight.

With secondary stat values increasing with item levels inflation, 4pc t15 providing a free PB every 10 seconds (kind of), and Chi-based heals now being free, maintaining 100% Shuffle uptime should be the easiest thing in the world come 5.2, and 2pc t15 creating another buff to struggle with managing 100% uptime on is a mechanic that should prove rewarding and potentially challenging.


4. 2T15 increases value of crit for BMs until EB's uptime reaches 50% in the long run. Afterwards it's value should be lower. Still higher than it is now, I guess. After buffs to mastery and removal of T30 Chi cost, I will have a chunk of stats available, and now I know where to put them :)


Yes. Well said, I think the most basic mathematical analysis for this 2pc is that it puts a soft cap on the value of EB at 50% uptime. It also obviously improves the value of critical strike rating as a damage reduction statistic.

Now, what crit change is required for 50% uptime? That is a function of weapon type (which controls EB procs per crit) and swing speed. Sticking with simplicity, let's say it's a perfect 2.0 swing speed with a polearm, so 3 stacks per crit. To achieve perfect uptime, we need to land two crits every twelve seconds. Two of every six attacks must crit, meaning we need 33% crit chance, plus another 3% to make up for crit suppression on bosses, so 36%. That's actually not a high value, but it also assumes perfectly even spacing on crits, which is a completely unreasonable expectation.

So, I feel that, if you have a perfect 2.0 swing speed, aiming for ~36% crit is the minimum value of crit to shoot for once you have acquired t15 2-piece. Now, once weapon speeds shift around, that's where it gets murky.

There's math to be done.

#42 MomysLidlMonsta

MomysLidlMonsta

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 14 posts

Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:39 PM

Weapon speed and type don't significantly affect EB uptime, they just mess around with RNG. That said RNG will be the main problem with maintaining 50+50% EB uptime, because the stats to statistically get 1 stack every 2 seconds are not that hard to get, even in T14 content.
However I don't think that gearing for 50+50% EB uptime is a good strategy. It might be a sweet spot in overall damage reduction against constant damage, but I don't think it's possible to time it properly to special attacks while still maintaining (nearly) 50+50% uptime. Also with DH being tunneled by most attacks we already have pretty few cooldowns, so it would be unwise to throw away another by just blanketing it in my opinion.

I'd rather say the 2p adds an alternative way of using EB, which is just canceling it right away to just get the stagger bonus.

P.S. It still needs to be tested if the 2p buff gets removed when you activate a new EB. If not, this soft cap wouldn't even exist.

#43 plato30

plato30

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 10 January 2013 - 02:41 PM

I looked through the thread and did not see it mentioned. Maybe it should be obvious based on the stats. However I do not see which weapon enchant you are suggesting. I have seen different places where it is suggested that especially when dual wielding that using windsong is best. However I could easily manage to imagine that Dancing Steel was good also. I really don't have an opinion on which is better but would enjoy any insight.

#44 Pisshands

Pisshands

    A.K.A. Mr. Classy

  • • Guide Author
  • 187 posts

Posted 10 January 2013 - 10:51 PM

Weapon speed and type don't significantly affect EB uptime, they just mess around with RNG. That said RNG will be the main problem with maintaining 50+50% EB uptime, because the stats to statistically get 1 stack every 2 seconds are not that hard to get, even in T14 content.
However I don't think that gearing for 50+50% EB uptime is a good strategy. It might be a sweet spot in overall damage reduction against constant damage, but I don't think it's possible to time it properly to special attacks while still maintaining (nearly) 50+50% uptime. Also with DH being tunneled by most attacks we already have pretty few cooldowns, so it would be unwise to throw away another by just blanketing it in my opinion.

I'd rather say the 2p adds an alternative way of using EB, which is just canceling it right away to just get the stagger bonus.

P.S. It still needs to be tested if the 2p buff gets removed when you activate a new EB. If not, this soft cap wouldn't even exist.


Tl;dr version: EB is still massively more powerful than 2-piece, and the only situation in which you should ever cancel EB early is if you are being hit by nothing but unavoidable attacks.

The listed critical strike values to maintain a certain uptime are the minimum required to mathematically expect said outcome on average. RNG occurs and we must deal.

The situations in which cancelling EB to obtain the bonus will provide the most damage reduction will be minimal, and predicated upon using increased Stagger on undodgeable mechanics.

A soft cap, since you need a review, is the value at which continued acquisition of a statistic suddenly incurs a dramatically reduced value of whatever it does (damage increase, reduction, etc.). A hard cap is when continued acquisition of a statistic has ZERO value.
T15 2-piece creates a soft cap on critical strike rating for EB regardless of whether EB and t15 2-piece are exclusive or stackable, the only variable is how hard of a downturn occurs after the soft cap. If the two values are exclusive, critical strike will incur a greater decrease than in the alternative situation. In either situation, you should try not overwrite or overlap the two buffs.

As for hard capping, the hard cap for EB occurs when you can no longer gain EB uptime from critical strike rating.
Let's throw down the procrate table for reference:
Weapon Speed | Minimum Charges per crit | Maximum Charges per crit
2.6 (1h) | 1 (50%) | 2 (50%)
3.3 (Staff) | 2 (25%) | 3 (75%)
3.6 (Polearm) | 3 (100%)


To find the average buff time provided by an individual crit, we simply multiply the charge value provided by the proc chances and add them together.
(1 * .5 + 2 * .5) = 1.5
2 * .25 + 3 * .75 = 2.75
3 * 1 = 3
In order to maintain 100% uptime on EB, we must, at the bare minimum, reach an average time between crits equal to these times.
Weapon Speed | Average time between crits
2.6 (1h) | 1.5s
3.3 (Staff) | 2.75s
3.6 (Polearm) | 3s

Now, haste values and attack speeds being varied, this results in a high-60's crit chance required to hard cap EB. Not a realistically attainable value.

The soft cap is a result of continued overlapping of EB and the 2-piece buff, as doing so is counterintuitive and diminishes the returns of the 2-piece. Let me demonstrate using numbers:

Assume with Stagger and raid buffs a Monk has 50% base avoidance, Staggers 53% of damage and has 21k armor (~31% damage reduction). In 2-piece t15, these numbers should be a reasonable/low estimate.
Let's walk through a 10-hit cycle a few times with various buffs up and compare damage taken. This is not a Purifying Brew exercise, so I won't use it in this scenario. It will create unrealistic Stagger damage. As such, I will perform no analysis on Stagger damage taken, but I am leaving it in the scenario for completeness.

Assume a mob is dual wielding with a swing timer of 1.0 sec and hitting for 200k per swing.
Monk: 25% passive damage reduction, 31% damage reduction from armor, 53% Stagger, 50% avoidance
Swing #1, 48645 Hit, 54855 Stagger
1 sec, 5485 Stagger tick
Swing #2, Dodge
2 sec, 5485 Stagger tick
Swing #3, 48645 Hit, 98740 Stagger
3 sec, 9874 Stagger tick
Swing #4, Dodge
4 sec, 9874 Stagger tick
Swing #5, 48645 Hit, 133847 Stagger
5 sec, 13384 Stagger tick
Swing #6, Parry
6 sec, 13384 Stagger tick
Swing #7, 48645 Hit, 153663 Stagger
7 sec, 15366 Stagger tick
Swing #8, Dodge
8 sec, 15366 Stagger tick
Swing #9, 48645 Hit, 177786 Stagger
9 sec, 17779 Stagger tick
Swing #10, Dodge
10 sec, 17779 Stagger tick
Damage from melee strikes: 243225
Total Stagger Damage: 123776
Total Damage: 367001

Now, using Elusive Brew and no other cooldowns:
Monk: 25% passive damage reduction, 31% damage reduction from armor, 53% Stagger, 80% avoidance
Swing #1, 48645 Hit, 54855 Stagger
1 sec, 5485 Stagger tick
Swing #2, Dodge
2 sec, 5485 Stagger tick
Swing #3, Dodge
3 sec, 5485 Stagger tick
Swing #4, Dodge
4 sec, 5485 Stagger tick
Swing #5, Dodge
5 sec, 5485 Stagger tick
Swing #6, Parry
6 sec, 5485 Stagger tick
Swing #7, 48645 Hit, 76800 Stagger
7 sec, 7680 Stagger tick
Swing #8, Dodge
8 sec, 7680 Stagger tick
Swing #9, Dodge
9 sec, 7680 Stagger tick
Swing #10, Parry
10 sec, 7680 Stagger tick
Damage from melee strikes: 97290
Total Stagger Damage: 63630
Total Damage: 160920

To compare the melee damage taken: 97290 / 243225 = 40% of damage taken in the initial scenario. This reflects one of the fundamental elements of EB: it is a huge white damage reduction cooldown, providing ~60% damage reduction when at 50% base avoidance. It's not entirely reliable, but this is the price we must pay for its potency.

Now with 2-piece bonus and no other cooldowns:
Monk: 25% passive damage reduction, 31% damage reduction from armor, 65% Stagger, 50% avoidance
Swing #1, 36225 Hit, 67275 Stagger
1 sec, 6728 Stagger tick
Swing #2, Dodge
2 sec, 6727 Stagger tick
Swing #3, 36225 Hit, 121095 Stagger
3 sec, 12110 Stagger tick
Swing #4, Dodge
4 sec, 12109 Stagger tick
Swing #5, 36225 Hit, 164151 Stagger
5 sec, 16415 Stagger tick
Swing #6, Parry
6 sec, 16415 Stagger tick
Swing #7, 36225 Hit, 198596 Stagger
7 sec, 19860 Stagger tick
Swing #8, Dodge
8 sec, 19859 Stagger tick
Swing #9, 36225 Hit, 226152 Stagger
9 sec, 22615 Stagger tick
Swing #10, Dodge
10 sec, 22615 Stagger tick
Damage from melee strikes: 181125
Total Stagger Damage: 155453
Total Damage: 336578

Comparing the total damage from the initial scenario: 336578 / 367001 = 91.7%. This buff provides about a 9% damage reduction in this situation.
Comparing direct strike damage: 181125 / 243225 = 74.5%. The buff, with 53% base Stagger, provides a roughly 25% transfer of direct strike damage into Stagger. Combined with more liberal PB usage, this will result in a sizeable damage reduction as well.

Lastly, let's compare having both EB and 2-piece up at the same time:
Monk: 25% passive damage reduction, 31% damage reduction from armor, 65% Stagger, 80% avoidance
Swing #1, 36225 Hit, 67275 Stagger
1 sec, 6728 Stagger tick
Swing #2, Dodge
2 sec, 6727 Stagger tick
Swing #3, Dodge
3 sec, 6728 Stagger tick
Swing #4, Dodge
4 sec, 6727 Stagger tick
Swing #5, Dodge
5 sec, 6728 Stagger tick
Swing #6, Parry
6 sec, 6727 Stagger tick
Swing #7, 36225 Hit, 94185 Stagger
7 sec, 9419 Stagger tick
Swing #8, Dodge
8 sec, 9418 Stagger tick
Swing #9, Dodge
9 sec, 9419 Stagger tick
Swing #10, Parry
10 sec, 9418 Stagger tick
Damage from melee strikes: 72450
Total Stagger Damage: 78039
Total Damage: 150489

Melee hits do 72,450 when overlapping EB and 2-piece. This is still a ~25% damage reduction from the 97290 of using EB alone. No surprise or complaints there.

I've left the Stagger damage in so you can look at it and math things out on your own, but there is a huge amount of selection bias going on in here. If I switch the dodged swings around a bit I can greatly increase or decrease the amount of Stagger damage taken in the 10 second window. Additionally, using PB will decrease the Stagger damage by a dramatic amount as well. Best to not try and make many arguments based upon numbers so easily manipulated.

On the other hand, the melee damage directly taken is consistent regardless of when the attacks land, so here is a quick recap ignoring Stagger damage:
Melee damage taken in the 2-piece scenario: 181125/243225 = 25.5% damage reduction
Melee damage taken in the EB scenario: 97290/243225 = 60% damage reduction
Melee damage taken in the double buff scenario: 72450/243225 = 70% damage reduction

There is a clearly diminished return in overlapping EB and 2-piece. Other than that, EB is far and away a larger damage reduction skill (in that it actually is one, whereas 2-piece is only a damage redistribution). 2-piece is a decent damage reduction on its own and will have effect against undodgeable attacks.

As it stands, canceling EB is only worthwhile if you will not live through a large special attack without the extra 12% Stagger redistribution (just use another cooldown, you clown car) or if there are no avoidable attacks being thrown your way.

#45 Noobiisa

Noobiisa

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 39 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:26 AM

With Chi healing spells becoming free in terms of Chi costs, keeping up shuffle or purifing more will be fairly trivial. As Pisshands demonstrated above how powerful EB is above and that is at a modest 50% avoidance, this should be easy to get to 55% even in some decent T15 gear, now throw in the T14 2 set bonus there and EB even looks more lucrative and upon reaching 90% avoidance, the DR will start to be significant.

The synergy between 2 piece T14 and T15 plays quite well off each other (hopefully you can have both buffs up), how long will T14 2set bonus stay viable?

#46 Pisshands

Pisshands

    A.K.A. Mr. Classy

  • • Guide Author
  • 187 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 08:11 AM

With Chi healing spells becoming free in terms of Chi costs, keeping up shuffle or purifing more will be fairly trivial. As Pisshands demonstrated above how powerful EB is above and that is at a modest 50% avoidance, this should be easy to get to 55% even in some decent T15 gear, now throw in the T14 2 set bonus there and EB even looks more lucrative and upon reaching 90% avoidance, the DR will start to be significant.

The synergy between 2 piece T14 and T15 plays quite well off each other (hopefully you can have both buffs up), how long will T14 2set bonus stay viable?


We will have to see, but I imagine it will probably be a "Rogues in DS" situation, in which we are better off running 2pc and 2pc forever for damage reduction, and using 4pc t15 will be for dps. We'll see, but I would seriously expect that, even with how greatly diminished the extra 5% dodge becomes, it is still an increase in damage reduction to 10% chance to free PB. 5% dodge is still a lot of avoidance.
What we can all agree upon even without supporting math is that being able to Purify for free and turn that PB Chi into more Blackout Kicks is going to be a significant damage increase (should you use it that way). Add in the increased stats on t15 compared to t14 and it's even more of a damage increase.

We shall see. I would like to compare how much damage reduction t15 4pc actually provides next to t14 2pc. I am going to need a math genius to model optimal PB usage for me, though. Someone who can do better than my basic algebra and staged fight sequences.

Quickly, light the Venyasure signal.

#47 Taser

Taser

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 72 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 11:40 AM

@pisshands
You are calculating the 2pc as being a simple +12%, ie 50%+12%=62%. But it might be possible that it will be 50*1.12=56%. That needs to be checked.

50-55% aboidance without EB? How are you doing that? Lets say 3% miss + 15% Dodge + 10% parry + 20% shuffle = 48% total. But you need to deduct 4.5% from Miss/Dodge/parry = 13.5 in total for fighting a Boss, as you lose 1.5% per Level difference.

#48 Pisshands

Pisshands

    A.K.A. Mr. Classy

  • • Guide Author
  • 187 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 06:41 PM

@pisshands
You are calculating the 2pc as being a simple +12%, ie 50%+12%=62%. But it might be possible that it will be 50*1.12=56%. That needs to be checked.

50-55% aboidance without EB? How are you doing that? Lets say 3% miss + 15% Dodge + 10% parry + 20% shuffle = 48% total. But you need to deduct 4.5% from Miss/Dodge/parry = 13.5 in total for fighting a Boss, as you lose 1.5% per Level difference.


Good call on the avoidance DR, but no chance on the Stagger value increase being multiplicative. Every single other Stagger value increase is additive.

Edit:
I was a bit groggy from waking up when I first read this, but no, you only lose .6% of each avoidance stat against raid bosses, giving a total of 1.8% avoidance lost. I am not sure where you came up with 4.5% for each avoidance.

Nevertheless, reducing base avoidance simply increases the relative damage reduction value of Elusive Brew. I would think that's obvious.

#49 Netukka

Netukka

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 79 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 07:46 PM

They changed the mechanics how enemies ignore dodge/parry/miss in MoP. It used to be .6% per level, now it is 1.5% per level. As bosses are considered level 93, they ignore 4.5% dodge/parry/miss always, 13.5% together.

Edit: Clarified. Base chance for boss to miss an attack at you is 0.5% and 4.5% dodge/parry is ignored always.

#50 Taser

Taser

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 72 posts

Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:17 PM

Can't post a link as the class balance thread is gone. But it was posted by GC himself. Maybe there is some quote at mmochampion or wowhead...

#51 Loriel

Loriel

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 12 January 2013 - 09:30 PM

Troll – Special Mention, Best Damage Race against Beasts
If Berserking provided 20% haste, it would be alright. It provides 20% attack speed instead, meaning no extra energy regen, only a very minor increase to GotOx chance over the course of a fight.


Is this still the case? The ingame character sheet indicates that my energy regen goes up when I use Berserking, and it does say melee haste on the tooltip.

#52 Pisshands

Pisshands

    A.K.A. Mr. Classy

  • • Guide Author
  • 187 posts

Posted 13 January 2013 - 10:32 PM

Is this still the case? The ingame character sheet indicates that my energy regen goes up when I use Berserking, and it does say melee haste on the tooltip.


Checked on my old Troll Rogue. It has most definitely been changed to be Haste, and it does affect energy regen.

#53 qwas

qwas

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 8 posts

Posted 15 January 2013 - 07:33 AM

@pisshands
You are calculating the 2pc as being a simple +12%, ie 50%+12%=62%. But it might be possible that it will be 50*1.12=56%. That needs to be checked.

50-55% aboidance without EB? How are you doing that? Lets say 3% miss + 15% Dodge + 10% parry + 20% shuffle = 48% total. But you need to deduct 4.5% from Miss/Dodge/parry = 13.5 in total for fighting a Boss, as you lose 1.5% per Level difference.


you shouldn't substract 4.5% for hit (3%-4,5% ~ still 0%)

in essence you should calculate avoidance as dodge+parry-9 (or 0.5+dodge+parry-9 for night elves)

#54 Pisshands

Pisshands

    A.K.A. Mr. Classy

  • • Guide Author
  • 187 posts

Posted 15 January 2013 - 08:37 AM

you shouldn't substract 4.5% for hit (3%-4,5% ~ still 0%)

in essence you should calculate avoidance as dodge+parry-9 (or 0.5+dodge+parry-9 for night elves)


Baseline chance to be missed is 5%, not 3%, so you are subtracting from the wrong number.

I can accept that lost dodge, parry and miss are 1.5% per level, but I want to see a blue post or clear evidence to prove it. Until then, I will withhold judgment. Either way, the difference in avoidance doesn't affect playstyle or gearing, only models for relative stat values.

#55 Taser

Taser

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 72 posts

Posted 15 January 2013 - 04:08 PM

Secondly, players have been curious about the combat table chances against players of boss mobs. What is described in that blog post is indeed accurate for a boss attacking a player. That does mean that a player has a base 3% chance to be missed, 3% chance to dodge (if they know Dodge), 3% chance to parry (if they know Parry), and 3% chance to block (if they know Block). That chance is indeed reduced by 1.5% per level difference, so a 92+ will never miss a 90. So to use a simple example, a monk with no parry on gear or other buffs has a 3% base parry chance, plus 5% from Swift Reflexes, for a total character sheet parry chance of 8%. A level 93 boss attacking that Monk will get parried 3.5% of the time. Hope that clears things up.

MMO-Champion - Flippable Table, MoP Music Update, Beta Class Balance Analysis, Blue Posts

#56 Vapes

Vapes

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 7 posts

Posted 16 January 2013 - 09:02 PM

Is there a reliable BiS trinket list for Brewmaster?

#57 lairpie

lairpie

    Don Flamenco

  • Members
  • 402 posts

Posted 16 January 2013 - 10:15 PM

Is there a reliable BiS trinket list for Brewmaster?

No, it would vary Dramatically between fights, raid comps, player skill, your other gear, and amount you value your personal damage. To get a real list you'd basically have to make one for each different fight, sometimes noting differences between 10 and 25, or how abundant healing is. Generally, you're probably best off getting a and never taking it off other than Lei'Shi, and using a stamina trinket or based on the fight. If you asked everyone, you'd find a large degree of variation based on different math that is still actually just based on their (or more likely someone else's) opinions on the numbers that went into the math. There's no "this one does more damage than the other one" type ranking like you can get most times for damage trinkets.

If you're looking for just raw damage reduction (and coincidentally damage done), (reforged to haste) and are great. If you want more help surviving through burst damage use stamina trinkets, or don't reforge the bottle to haste. If you're looking to mitigate the spikiness of the damage you take, but aren't actually too worried about dying (like Gara'jal), you might even use Bottle and but the latter is pretty much terrible. If you're trying to do content while frankly undergeared, mastery is comparatively better. If lots of the damage (that you can't Zen Med/Diffuse Magic through) is magic, stamina shoots up in value. If you're tanking only part of the time like many fights Agi shoots up in value (because of increased EB uptime making the dodge comparatively better and the crit comparatively more useful for generating EB stacks). If you're going to actually intelligently use trinket Use effects, they're worth a bit more, but still offer a much lower total uptime than proc effects.

#58 drtyprior

drtyprior

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 17 January 2013 - 04:49 AM

I have no idea how to use Venyasure's spreadsheet; however, he did mention the update to the Ox statue greatly changes the value of crit. Do you plan on updating your stat rankings so I can throw them in AskMrRobot?

Also, you don't list Stamina with a stat value. What do you normally throw into AskMrRobot? I'm running with a value of .5 right now.

Thanks!

#59 Noobiisa

Noobiisa

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 39 posts

Posted 17 January 2013 - 07:53 AM

No, it would vary Dramatically between fights, raid comps, player skill, your other gear, and amount you value your personal damage. To get a real list you'd basically have to make one for each different fight, sometimes noting differences between 10 and 25, or how abundant healing is. Generally, you're probably best off getting a and never taking it off other than Lei'Shi, and using a stamina trinket or based on the fight. If you asked everyone, you'd find a large degree of variation based on different math that is still actually just based on their (or more likely someone else's) opinions on the numbers that went into the math. There's no "this one does more damage than the other one" type ranking like you can get most times for damage trinkets.

If you're looking for just raw damage reduction (and coincidentally damage done), (reforged to haste) and are great. If you want more help surviving through burst damage use stamina trinkets, or don't reforge the bottle to haste. If you're looking to mitigate the spikiness of the damage you take, but aren't actually too worried about dying (like Gara'jal), you might even use Bottle and but the latter is pretty much terrible. If you're trying to do content while frankly undergeared, mastery is comparatively better. If lots of the damage (that you can't Zen Med/Diffuse Magic through) is magic, stamina shoots up in value. If you're tanking only part of the time like many fights Agi shoots up in value (because of increased EB uptime making the dodge comparatively better and the crit comparatively more useful for generating EB stacks). If you're going to actually intelligently use trinket Use effects, they're worth a bit more, but still offer a much lower total uptime than proc effects.



You forgot to mention , which is BIS trinket, especially while we only have to do 8x AP dmg to proc Statue and it has nice synergy with 2xT14 piece, as you will have more EB uptime.

Then apart from that, if you are not in danger of dying in the fight (fights like Heroic Empress where if you have a bad avoidance streak, the adds pulverise you or Heroic Sha with Thrash), you swap in stamina trinkets in, ideally with On-Use if the dmg can be expected. Example, the trash trinket from MSV has a nice on use Mastery, which at certain times of dmg is helpful, as it takes all RNG ouf of it atleast for mastery.

TLDR: Use and then either or , the last 2 are closish to each other. Swap out with stamina/mastery trinkets for fights with really high dmg at stages, just so you survive the hits without relying on your avoidance, i.e bad rng and the tank dies is very frustrating in a 14min fight, I personally, although this differs from each person and your current gear as well, I use Terror and then swap out 1 stamina trinket, just to make some fights totally safe for me and my healers.

#60 Pisshands

Pisshands

    A.K.A. Mr. Classy

  • • Guide Author
  • 187 posts

Posted 17 January 2013 - 09:19 AM

I have no idea how to use Venyasure's spreadsheet; however, he did mention the update to the Ox statue greatly changes the value of crit. Do you plan on updating your stat rankings so I can throw them in AskMrRobot?

Also, you don't list Stamina with a stat value. What do you normally throw into AskMrRobot? I'm running with a value of .5 right now.

Thanks!


The crit value change is only as a function of group damage reduction. It does not alter personal damage reduction values at all. I do not list Stamina because it is a damage reduction statistic list, and Stamina provides zero damage reduction. The amount of Stamina you require is a personal issue to work out with your healers, but I use base Stamina from gear.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users