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[WW] 5.4 -Siege of the Fist


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#1 tastysnack

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Posted 02 January 2013 - 07:39 PM

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#2 khel

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:11 AM

Nice work. If you get time, a BiS and stat weights section for various tier levels could be useful. Trinket lists are especially useful.

#3 Crevan

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:22 AM

Eyedore made a comprehensive trinket list in the old WW thread, it should be up to date.

#4 tastysnack

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:27 AM

Eyedore made a comprehensive trinket list in the old WW thread, it should be up to date.


I'll look into adding it later tonight. I'd also like to add the spreadsheet that Promdates made for weighting trinkets, but I would want to upload it to Google Docs first - with his permission, of course. In addition, other used spreadsheets would probably be useful.

I think a list of top-end gear would be useful - I'll also look into that, along with a "pre-raid" list. I have a spreadsheet for my own loot priorities, so I'll probably draw off of that.

Added BiS lists as a To-Do.
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#5 promdates

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:29 AM

I actually have a version of it on google docs. I'll fix a few things, update it and ship it to you either tonight or tomorrow afternoon.
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#6 tastysnack

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 12:30 AM

I actually have a version of it on google docs. I'll fix a few things, update it and ship it to you either tonight or tomorrow afternoon.


Sounds good - feel free to PM it.
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#7 Crevan

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:38 PM

In the old WW thread, Saltycracker mentioned that 5.2 mastery "scales exponentially" (this post). Just wanted someone to clarify - does this mean that the effect mastery has on overall damage output grows exponentially? After doing some draft calculations of my own, I only see linear increases, in both bonus damage provided and the average effect it has on our performance. Am I missing something here?

#8 Eyedore

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 01:41 PM

Thanks alot Calligraphy! Finally we have an up to date monk guide :)

About trinkets:
I checked your trinket spreadsheet Promdates, and it looks good, also because you included the upgrade counterparts. There is one thing I am missing though. You are calculating the procs as if they have a perfect uptime, which will never happen ofcourse. For instance the Relic will be a little less good because it only procs off of crits, while most of the other trinkets proc from hits.
What I did to solve that problem was to calculate the amount of hits and crits per second (with data from simc) and then with the chance to proc for each trinket I calculated how often you have to hit/crit and thus how many seconds untill a next proc occurs. Maybe it's an idea to add this into your spreadsheet aswell?

The thing I don't like about my trinket list atm is that haste is valued so high, which is because it is valued so by simc (which is patchwerk data). This can be solved simply by changing the values for haste and crit, but it doesn't feel good to just make them up.

I uploaded my trinket spreadsheet here: trinkets.xlsx
Just in case, my energy spreadsheet: monk_energy.xlsx

#9 Eeinx

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:27 PM

The thing I don't like about my trinket list atm is that haste is valued so high, which is because it is valued so by simc (which is patchwerk data). This can be solved simply by changing the values for haste and crit, but it doesn't feel good to just make them up.


Since combo breaker still exists its still going to be a small haste stat weight rollercoaster (but not what is has been). I'm planning to spend some time working on SimC this weekend to add the PTR mastery and begin early implementation of the new 'cleave' talent (i'm just not going to fully implement it because it could work so many different ways)

With how the new mastery functions and what was said before, it will likely scale linearly, which will very likely change with varied amounts of gear. Hopefully we'll be able to get some results back soon in preparation for T15. :)

This should make it easier to make a more reliable trinket list. (among other things :x)

I'll look into adding it later tonight. I'd also like to add the spreadsheet that Promdates made for weighting trinkets, but I would want to upload it to Google Docs first - with his permission, of course. In addition, other used spreadsheets would probably be useful.

I think a list of top-end gear would be useful - I'll also look into that, along with a "pre-raid" list. I have a spreadsheet for my own loot priorities, so I'll probably draw off of that.

Added BiS lists as a To-Do.


Gahhda will likely be doing an initial BiS list; He's pretty solid with rotations and optimization though. Are we shooting for 5.2 BiS as our main focus? I'll try and get everything up as soon as possible so we can figure things out before the patch hits.

#10 tastysnack

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 04:53 PM

Gahhda will likely be doing an initial BiS list; He's pretty solid with rotations and optimization though.

Are you calling me bad? (I kid, I kid). Sounds good - if that's the case, I'll prep a "pre raid" list (ie, gear that's found via VP and 463 Heroics). I think it's a great idea to start looking at 5.2/T15 BiS at this point, too (as item information becomes available) - at least, once we're able to derive the value of mastery (which it looks like that was potentially derived in the previous thread). I was thinking about it last night - with 5.2 on the horizon, I'm not entirely sure how much sense it would make to compile a new T14 list (I'm assuming the SimC BiS module hasn't been updated recently, but on the other hand I'm not sure how much it would change, either).

@Eyedore: I'll see about adding those. Are they available through Google Docs? I'll include the download links for now.
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#11 promdates

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 05:37 PM

Currently working on merging mine and Eyedore's trinket lists. Expect a new one in a little while.
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#12 tastysnack

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 08:49 PM

Currently working on merging mine and Eyedore's trinket lists. Expect a new one in a little while.


Fantastic. Let me know when it's ready.

In the meantime, I compiled a list/spreadsheet of items not requiring raids/VP. I'll add another sheet to it later with items requiring VP (the idea being a list of items users could receive prior to stepping foot in a raid instance). (Perhaps it isn't useful to us specifically, but I imagine it could be useful to other people attempting to learn Windwalker).
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#13 promdates

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

Completed the first version of the trinket spreadsheet incorporating Eyedore's proc math.

filehosting.org - download page for Trinkets_5.1.0a_v1.xlsm

1) Run SimulationCraft for yourself to get your stat weights and other information.
2) Set the fight duration from the top of the "Results" page (usually if you have it set at 450 fight length, it will be 360-540)
3) Put your weights into the blue boxes, adjust hit/expertise to the highest secondary stat value (to not have hit/expertise trinkets be so over-valued)
4) Check the "Abilities" section of SimulationCraft and put in the number of hits/ticks and what the crit % for each is.
5) Choose a reforge option
6) Rank
7) ???
8) Profit.
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#14 tastysnack

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Posted 03 January 2013 - 11:25 PM

The amount of lime green Office '03 (work computer :( ) created is rather blinding. Otherwise I would call this a beautiful work of art :)

I love it. Adding a download link immediately. I find it interesting that Flashing Steel outweighs the LFR trinkets - definitely something to think about.
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#15 Saltycracker

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 12:25 AM

In the old WW thread, Saltycracker mentioned that 5.2 mastery "scales exponentially" (this post). Just wanted someone to clarify - does this mean that the effect mastery has on overall damage output grows exponentially? After doing some draft calculations of my own, I only see linear increases, in both bonus damage provided and the average effect it has on our performance. Am I missing something here?


Go ahead and disregard that. I thought I had a working model of how mastery affects our damage output, but I must have gotten a formula wrong. I was verifying that your DPS gains are equivalent regardless of how many stacks of TEB you consume, and this is still the case:

https://docs.google....ENHVmSHc#gid=10

The spreadsheet should be ready for 5.2 but let me know if you see any problems.

I'm seeing mastery be the best secondary stat with the 5.2 changes:

DPS gain in 1% Stat gain:
Mastery - 0.96%
Crit - 0.74%
Haste - 0.63%
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#16 Kiræl

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 03:22 AM

Calli, I believe that Siimcraft is using FoF on multitargets simply due to the fact that each "tick" on each target has a separate chance to crit, this would be a slight gain I would think given how much damage it does in addition to the stun.

#17 tastysnack

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 04:11 AM

Calli, I believe that Siimcraft is using FoF on multitargets simply due to the fact that each "tick" on each target has a separate chance to crit, this would be a slight gain I would think given how much damage it does in addition to the stun.


That's what my data has suggested as well - on Garalon, especially, when used between body and leg.

A snippet from a combat log (our logs are private, otherwise I'd just link), with a space between ticks (stun also removed):

[23:34:41.752] Calligraphy casts Fists of Fury

[23:34:41.922] Calligraphy Fists of Fury Garalon 32148
[23:34:41.922] Calligraphy Fists of Fury Garalon's Leg *132449*


[23:34:43.050] Calligraphy Fists of Fury Garalon *66224*
[23:34:43.050] Calligraphy Fists of Fury Garalon's Leg *132448*


[23:34:43.933] Calligraphy Fists of Fury Garalon *66225*
[23:34:43.933] Calligraphy Fists of Fury Garalon's Leg 64296


[23:34:44.671] Calligraphy Fists of Fury Garalon 32147
[23:34:44.671] Calligraphy Fists of Fury Garalon's Leg *132449*

[23:34:45.379] Calligraphy's Fists of Fury fades from Calligraphy

In addition, I can see it as being a "chi dump", per se - for example, in Heroic Wind Lord, I could see myself easily Chi capping if I were not to do FoF. I'll add it into the rotation.
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#18 Portrero

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:12 AM

One thing I've noticed with FoF is that it snapshots your stats (I assume like most other channels) at the beginning of the cast, so if you start it 0-1s before your trinkets or TeB drop, you can effectively extend their duration a few extra seconds.

#19 tastysnack

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 08:07 AM

I noticed tonight while working on H Ambershaper that Spinning Fire Blossom appears to not hit the globules. I had it glyphed (for a handful of reasons that are unimportant, but it's worth mentioning that it is glyphed).

Anyone else have this issue? I know I hit it a few times, and absolutely nothing happened - not even an error message. I use scrolling battle text, so I also verified that it wasn't hitting anything. I didn't try it unglyphed, as I didn't want it to accidentally hit the wrong target.

@Portera that appears to be correct. In the log above, I had it synced with dancing steel/Relic proc (probably part of why most of the hits ended up being crits).

Edit: I just ran a query for Spinning Fire Blossom and found that the only targets it appears to hit are the constructs, monstrosities, and Ambershaper... I attached the results in a text file.
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#20 Ruga

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 08:21 AM

I can confirm the issue with SFB and the little adds on Ambershaper.
The first time I noticed it was when I took one out that was on me, used Leg Sweep to stun it then ran away and wanted to kill it with a SFB - nothing.




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