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Infraction for Havoc12: 3. All discussion should be both polite and civil.

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#1 Therya


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Posted 05 February 2013 - 06:42 AM

Post: Disc Priest - Mists of Pandaria
User: Havoc12
Infraction: 3. All discussion should be both polite and civil.
Points: 1

Administrative Note:

Message to User:

Your posts are becoming progressively more and more aggressive. I understand that you are responding to equally aggressive posts towards you but keep it civil and polite. I will be addressing the rest of the people involved in this but be warned this behavior is not tolerated. Tone it down and when you reply stick to the facts.

Original Post:

The damage IS limiting. Bosses use spells in specific intervals for specific durations for specific amounts of damage. You can't heal more damage than you take. If you are already overhealing during burst damage, low ticking damage, whatever damage, healing more will overheal more. It is really that simple. And no, you can't rely on having your haste, just by chance, line up your spell casts with the ticks of damage.

How is an enforced break in casting, a time where you do nothing, NOT a detriment to the value of haste? The benefit of haste is being able to do more stuff, not the same amount. If you can make a special exception for haste in that regard then why wouldn't the same apply to crit? Landing a critical heal is just an enforced break in casting.

I will make a simulation to demonstrate this. Low damage, high damage, fast ticks, slow ticks, etc. with 3 or 4 different haste values. And measure the hps and overheal.

You can waste your time if you like. Faster smaller spells behave better in low overheal phases, because you are in competition with other healers, casting more spells faster increases your chance of getting a spell in before another healer and can thus have disproportionate return. If the damage is lower then you can spam a lower HPS more efficient spell and get the same HPS as before with higher efficiency allowing you spam more of your higher HPS lower efficiency spells later on.

If the boss has a high damage phase followed by a no damage phase, then its just another breakpoint. Continuous low level damage means every spell has a chance of getting there before another healer does and casting more and smaller spells nets you a return proportional to the spells you cast.

I will do you a favour and explain it one more time. If you don't get it this time you are on your own.

Lets say you have time T1 at HPS1, time T2 at zero HPS, and time T3 at HPS2.
Your total healing done is H = HPS1*T1+HPS2*T2. Your HPS is H/(T1+T2+T3)

Adding x% haste means you will cast x% extra spells in T1 and T3, so you get H' = HPS1*T1*(1+x/100) and HPS2*T3*(1+x/100) = H*(1+x/100). Your HPS is H*(1+x/100)/(T1+T2+T3).

Enforced breaks in casting has zero effect on haste.

There is no escape from the facts no matter how many simulations you make. If you get any other result it just means you did your simulation wrong. Overheal magnifies the value of haste vs any other stat. That is the hard fact and nothing can change it.

Havoc12, you are so excited about BT....

And even under PI, BT you still gain 7 casts (timestamp 23:18:22 for example)

....I advise you to reconsider your opinion and dont claim that BT goes with 100% efficiency in every formula.

If we count overheal for crit, then lets count BT usage efficiency. And for your situation BT efficiency for SS =0% in 22 attempts.

You have wasted your time mate. I don't have enough haste to get to the breakpoint. Borrowed time makes zero difference to the spells I can get during spirit shell, exactly as I expect. I cast PWS for the healing or for rapture. I am healing one of the tanks and the raid in this encounter. Because of the extra time I have during spirit shell that I cannot use, I often activate spirit shell before the GCD is over and spam the next PoH to avoid losing any casting time.

I have tested this a million trillion times 10.5% haste and the haste buff is enough to get you 7x2.5 casts during spirit shell 100% of the time. I can't be bothered to find someone to give me haste buff so I can get you a screenie. Try it yourself if you don't believe me. Go to the PTR reforce to 16.5% or so haste cast a PWS wait until the GCD is over activate spirit shell and immediately spam PoHs. You will get 7 of them.

I advise you to not trust the time stamps on WoL so much. Asking me would have taken you a lot less time than going through the logs too.

BT usage efficiency is not 100%, some of it is always wasted. With 10% haste though I can fit a very good number of instants during borrowed time. I never assumed 100% BT usage efficiency. Spirit shell itself does not have 100% usage efficiency, because something can easily happen to make you move or lose time. This kind of thing hurts you more with crit than with haste though. It is pointless. As I said before there is not much point in discussing this further. You are not bringing up any new arguments and I am satisfied that I am right in my assessment so far, so unless you actually have something new this discussion is over for me.

I am personally happy with the way I have come up with evaluating crit efficiency and I am happy with my estimate of what is the best haste to get for now and I will certainly be maxing spirit not intellect. This is better for my holy spec too, which as things stand I will be using in all encounters which involve aoe healing. If you are not convinced by now, I am sure you either have a good reason and it won't work for your raid and your playstyle or you are simply shooting yourself in the leg out of stubbornness. Either way its none of my business.


Aside from that renew with the glyph needs to be looked at again. I make it better HPS than PoH on 4 targets with borrowed time.

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