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Frost DPS 5.4 - Howling Blargh


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#41 Mendenbarr

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 05:23 PM

DW
With the levels of mastery you are going to have in t16 gear, especially with the 2-set bonus, HB will hit higher than oblit even in DPET.

2H
The more haste you drop, the weaker you are without PoF active, which is 66% of the time. It's too early to look at exactly how stat weights are effected by the set bonus, it's still the first build on the PTR, and the set bonus may very well be changed. If it sticks, I will be investigating if it's worth dropping haste with the bonus, and how much it's worth dropping.

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#42 Darknocious

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Posted 18 June 2013 - 07:52 PM

What do you think for DW stick with 2 set bonus and ignore the 4 set and try and stack as much mastery as possible to make it go over haste

#43 Mendenbarr

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 05:13 AM

What do you think for DW stick with 2 set bonus and ignore the 4 set and try and stack as much mastery as possible to make it go over haste


Depends on if the 4-set stays around in it's current version, and the stat allocation on tier and offset loot in T16. Too early to tell. Mastery should already be above haste for DW, with or without that 2-set.

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#44 Mendenbarr

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Posted 14 July 2013 - 11:37 PM

New(er) set bonus math/sims


Short version:
2-set:
2.48% boost for DW frost
2.15% boost for 2-hand frost.

4-set:
0.44% boost for DW frost
1.72% boost for 2-hand frost.

This taken with 8 sec duration for 2-hand, 6 sec duration for DW, and 50% rune regen for 20 seconds (pillar's full duration)

Details on how these numbers were reached can be found at Destiny Softworks: Tier 16 DPS set bonuses.

Will update if bonuses change again, but looking like it's gonna be an overall weak set of bonuses. Screw the 4-set for DW frost. Let's hope the proc weapons make up for it.

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#45 Mendenbarr

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 05:58 PM

New frost 4-set napkin math:
(Details taken from wowdb, not sure if they are accurate)
(500 base frost damage +0.12%AP)* mastery * spell crit (assuming it takes spell crit chance)
Plugged in 541 DW frost gearset and I get:
(500 + 0.12*54173) * 1.62 * 1.11

But wait! Pillar WILL always be up when this effect procs, and and there is a good chance RotFC will also be up. Plus, we have trinkets/cds to worry about.

My orc profile has blood fury, with a 2 min cd, and a 15 sec duration, with 4514 AP. Now, it will be up for 15/40, or an average AP of 1692.75 during pillar, which is multiplied by 10% for HoW.
1862.025 AP

Feather is up 27.45% of the time for my DW frost profile, and we can assume we get one complete overlap at the start of the fight. Assuming a 7.5 min fight, that's 8 casts of PoF, and 7 unsure casts. Each unsure cast will have, on average, 27.45% of feather. so that's 58.5 seconds of feather over 160, or 36.5% benefit. The H TF feather in the profile gives 1910 str per stack, and half stacks means 9550 strength.
All in all worth 3485.75 strength (before multipliers)

For the first cast, and a second cast, we'll have a pot up. That's 40/160, or 25% of the 4000 strength a pot provides, or
1000 strength (before multipliers)

RotFC is 73.88% uptime on a 15% strength buff, or a 11.082% strength buff on average.

My synapse springs always line up with pillar, giving 1920 strength for half of it, or
960 strength total

Get another 2009.043 from spark, on average.


Base str = 20932 +3485.75 + 1000 + 960 + 2009 +1300 (flask/food)=
43628.09 after multipliers.

Base AP=275.2


That gives an AVERAGE AP of 96257 when PoF is up.

(500 + 0.12*96257) * 1.62 * 1.11


So how hard does it hit? We can assume an average of ~ 21669.82 in 541 gear.
The other question is, how often does it hit?

DW is so close to GCD capped that it's priority with PoF up is the same without PoF up.
I'm going to assume DnD and DoTs do not proc it, because that would be silly, but I have not tested it.
Abilities which I assume proc it:
FS - 162.2
HB - 124.8
Oblit - 44.3
PS - 7.3

We can assume 1/3 of these are used during PoF.
That's 112.9 total.
Or a bonus damage of
2,445,800
or about 5435 dps.
That makes this worth about 2.9% ST increase for DW frost.

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#46 onlylucky13

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 04:22 PM

Edited: Mendenbarr is already working on BIS lists and will undoubtedly do a more thorough job.


Edited by onlylucky13, 30 December 2013 - 06:44 AM.


#47 Jessamy

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 06:18 AM

It looks like you're seeking out haste gear for those lists. But for a variety of reasons, haste is the least desirable secondary stat for dps DK specs in 5.4.

#48 MagdalenaDK

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 05:58 AM

Just a note about the Cooldown Reduction trinket: Don't let the sim's seemingly lower valuation of it fool you. At present what we see is its benefit from a purely DPS PoV (which is mostly increased Pillar of Frost uptime, more AMS soaking and more frequent access to Empower Rune Weapon), but its worth is far greater than this: It directly increases survivability by also granting more access to AMS for defensive purposes, as well as Icebound Fortitude.
For these reasons alone, I would personal prioritise it ahead of even the Amplification trinket for most Heroic mode raiders, when taking both the DPS and survival gain into consideration.

#49 Jessamy

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:30 PM

Mendenbarr has updated the guide for patch 5.4 and tier 16. Please continue to use the thread for discussion of the spec (and the "simple questions" thread for things that you feel may earn you an infraction if asked here). But be aware that earlier posts in the thread aside from the first post may be inaccurate as they refer to an older version of the game.

#50 Ralantos

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:26 PM

Item not found on all the new glyphs + gear?

#51 Tyvi

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 02:50 PM

That happens if you link to PTR items since the forum plugin does not see the difference between ptr.wowhead and normal wowhead IDs so it tries to look up item IDs that do not exist yet on live Wowhead.
Give it two days and the links should fix themselves.

#52 Ralantos

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:09 PM

Would it be possible to get some sort of text form next to the links that aren't working yet?

#53 Mendenbarr

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 03:51 PM

Would it be possible to get some sort of text form next to the links that aren't working yet?

You can find the new glyphs at 5.4 PTR Patch Notes - September 4 - World of Warcraft
and the BiS list at https://code.google....night_T16H.simc

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#54 Kurg

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 02:28 PM

Wondering if the combination of the new plague leech and buffed Glyph of Outbreak is the way to go for 2h frost. The glyph is obviously not advised for DW, but 2 runes at the ultimate cost of 10 RP every 25 seconds seems like a gain compared to the alternative of having to game a Rime proc leading up to PL CD and then wasting an unholy rune on PS.

#55 Cize

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 09:49 PM

you do not even use Outbreak
It is not worth it, losing your GCD.
Better HB + PS instead of doing 1 GCD no damage

#56 Enderon

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 11:29 PM

Does the simulator take into account Mastery's effect on the ice spikes from our 4p set bonus? Seems to me that there should be a larger difference between Evil Eye of Galakras and Skeer's Bloodsoaked Talisman due to the increased up time of Pillar of Frost creating more ice spikes. Or is our Mastery just so bad that even with that it still just barely overcomes the inherent dominance of Strength + Critical Strike Rating?

#57 Kurg

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 01:39 AM

you do not even use Outbreak
It is not worth it, losing your GCD.
Better HB + PS instead of doing 1 GCD no damage


For DW yes, but not 2h.

#58 Mendenbarr

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 06:14 AM

Wondering if the combination of the new plague leech and buffed Glyph of Outbreak is the way to go for 2h frost. The glyph is obviously not advised for DW, but 2 runes at the ultimate cost of 10 RP every 25 seconds seems like a gain compared to the alternative of having to game a Rime proc leading up to PL CD and then wasting an unholy rune on PS.


Checked in simC. Sadly, outbreak's cost prevents it from being used at the start of the fight, and it occasionally you don't have enough runic to reapply it instantly. How do you get runic? obliterate, which you can't do without diseases up. Even if you did, since you no longer get the free outbreak every 60 seconds, the cost is effectively 60 runic per minute, and you only gain 1 unholy not.

Simming as a mere 1% loss though.



Does the simulator take into account Mastery's effect on the ice spikes from our 4p set bonus? Seems to me that there should be a larger difference between Evil Eye of Galakras and Skeer's Bloodsoaked Talisman due to the increased up time of Pillar of Frost creating more ice spikes. Or is our Mastery just so bad that even with that it still just barely overcomes the inherent dominance of Strength + Critical Strike Rating?


Yes, the sims takes mastery into account for the 4-set. Still, even the 580 trinket "only" boosts pillar uptime from 33% to 50%. It's nice, don't get me wrong, but it's still the major benefit of the CD trinket, dps-wise. Skeer's bloodsoaked talisman is also just kinda good, but evil eye still downright beats it, iirc. When you take into account the shorter CD on survival CDs as well as the damage, the CD trinket should be the clear choice, with skeer's offering a decent downgrade for those who can't get ahold of the CD/AMP trinket.

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#59 sonicdragolgo

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 11:48 AM

Still, even the 580 trinket "only" boosts pillar uptime from 33% to 50%.


Huh?
no Trinket: 20sec duration, 60sec CD, ~33% uptime
580 Trinket: 20sec duration, 30sec CD, ~66% uptime

Am I getting this wrong?

edit: found my mistake. Nvm.

#60 Exx0r

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Posted 19 September 2013 - 06:19 PM

How does rank among the trinkets?




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