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[Balance] Encounter Mechanics


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#21 Lazerdollarz

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 09:53 PM

The DPS check on Dark Animus normal is so low it's not really even worth mentioning; you'll almost assuredly want to run HotW on heroic. For Ji-Kun, standard AoE rules apply: Eclipsed DoTs and then Hurricane. Updating OP now.

#22 Zantaz

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Posted 18 March 2013 - 11:38 PM

Just got our first Animus kill tonight, clutch healing with HotW-Tranquility after Interrupting Jolt is more useful than NV, in my humble opinion.

#23 Lilija

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:04 PM

Horridon - Heroic


Typhoon, starfall and MF/SF(application, not the dot) all knock back the pink dinosaur from hell.

The problem with Typhoon, MF and SnF is that you need to have the target in front of you. FF comes really handy here. I'm using a handy macro for this:

/tar Direhorn Spirit
/cast Faerie Fire
/targetlasttarget

No need to worry about where the pink one is - just push it once in a few casts.

#24 Melador

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:12 PM

Though MF/SF have the advantage of increasing SS procs.

#25 Lazerdollarz

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Posted 20 March 2013 - 08:13 PM

Good find. I'd still recommend setting the spirit as your focus and using a focus macro instead of a target macro - I had issues with a /tar macro not working on our attempts last week.

#26 Lilija

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 06:43 AM

Though MF/SF have the advantage of increasing SS procs.

With so many targets dotted on the fight already I find this one additional target bit irrelevant - SS is already a machine gun. And the convinience of using a spell that you can cast with your back to the target is priceless. Besides, I even doubt the pink one procces SS since I don't see MF/SnF doing any dmg at all to it in the logs and without actual crits I don't think there can be an SS proc (did a fast check now - will look into it more when I'm back from work).

#27 Gebuz

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 05:23 PM

(B) Using Symbiosis on a Death Knight is the only appreciable direct raid DPS increase, as it allows them to save on runes.

This only applies to dps dks, not tanks. Also, once they reach high amounts of haste they get gcd capped and it's value decreases a lot. Might be to a point were it is not even a dps increase. I prefer to give it to my dk tank for the extra tank cd whenever I want AMS.

Jin'rokh the Breaker
A new pools spawn every 90 seconds, which lines up perfectly with NV. The healing also double dips into the pool buff. On HC it is even more useful as you will be moving for most of the lightning storm phase, reducing damage during Nature's Vigil's downtime quite significantly.

Tortos
If assigned to kicking Turtles Displacer Beast is great for getting into position to kick them.

Durumu
HotW catform + feral wep is great for movement dps during the maze phase.

Iron Qon
AMS allows you to run through fire/lightning/frost on the ground without getting debuffs. Especially handy if you want to maximize dps during frost phase.

Twin Consorts
Make sure to dot the Day boss during the night phase when she appears. You can usually get a CA/INC dot up at the very end of CA when she appears for the first time. Timing Starfalls for when she is up is a dps increase aswell.

#28 Lilija

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 06:43 PM

Good find. I'd still recommend setting the spirit as your focus and using a focus macro instead of a target macro - I had issues with a /tar macro not working on our attempts last week.

What was the nature of those issues?

As for the SS procs, I guess something might be on afterall. I checked out the log in details and I have noticed SS procs out of the blue sky when dino was up (when I was still using MF/SnF on it). I still would like to have FF in my macro tho. It would be perfect to have MF and FF in one macro so does FF is used if MF can't be, but simple /cast Moonfire /cast Faerie Fire doesn't work.

#29 Lazerdollarz

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:36 AM

This only applies to dps dks, not tanks. Also, once they reach high amounts of haste they get gcd capped and it's value decreases a lot. Might be to a point were it is not even a dps increase. I prefer to give it to my dk tank for the extra tank cd whenever I want AMS.

Jin'rokh the Breaker
A new pools spawn every 90 seconds, which lines up perfectly with NV. The healing also double dips into the pool buff. On HC it is even more useful as you will be moving for most of the lightning storm phase, reducing damage during Nature's Vigil's downtime quite significantly.

Tortos
If assigned to kicking Turtles Displacer Beast is great for getting into position to kick them.

Durumu
HotW catform + feral wep is great for movement dps during the maze phase.

Iron Qon
AMS allows you to run through fire/lightning/frost on the ground without getting debuffs. Especially handy if you want to maximize dps during frost phase.

Twin Consorts
Make sure to dot the Day boss during the night phase when she appears. You can usually get a CA/INC dot up at the very end of CA when she appears for the first time. Timing Starfalls for when she is up is a dps increase aswell.

In current gear, WM: P is still a DPS increase for DKs, and no other class gets anything in the way of DPS from Symbiosis, so I'm going to leave that there.

The math is currently showing that NV is not appreciably better than HotW on any encounter at this point (logs prove this, even for Jin'rokh), so default to HotW and pick NV if the healing is better suited to the encounter.

As far as Symb on Iron Qon goes, I'm still pretty convinced that Unending Resolve is the way to go. The only time you're ever in danger of dying if you play well (at least in normal mode) is Fist Smash in the final phase.

What was the nature of those issues?

As for the SS procs, I guess something might be on afterall. I checked out the log in details and I have noticed SS procs out of the blue sky when dino was up (when I was still using MF/SnF on it). I still would like to have FF in my macro tho. It would be perfect to have MF and FF in one macro so does FF is used if MF can't be, but simple /cast Moonfire /cast Faerie Fire doesn't work.


I was using /cast [target=Direhorn Spirit] blah blah blah; which doesn't work. /tar Direhorn Spirit; /cast Moonfire will work, but the reason why I like having the focus is because I can always see if it's in range or not. The macro I use is:
#showtooltip
/use [@focus, nomod] Moonfire;
/use [@focus, mod:shift] Sunfire;
/use [@focus, mod:alt] Faerie Fire

#30 Kuruk

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 03:15 AM

Durumu
HotW catform + feral wep is great for movement dps during the maze phase.


Is it still worth it even if you don't have a feral weapon?

#31 Furial

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Posted 23 March 2013 - 05:32 PM

Tortos Heroic macro:

/target Humming Crystal
/cast Moonfire
/targetlasttarget

All you need to do is face the closest crystal and you can just hit the macro to refresh your crystal shell. This is an improvement over having a crystal on focus as you may be too far away from it when the time to refresh your Crystall Shell debuff comes.

#32 Lazerdollarz

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 06:43 AM

I doubt mooncat is worthwhile if you don't have an equal ilvl Feral weapon, especially since the melee maze gives you a lot of opportunities to stand still and cast, though obviously if anyone has numbers that say anything to the contrary, feel free to chime in.

We should test if Faerie Fire works on the Humming Crystals, because that removes any facing requirement whatsoever on that encounter.

#33 gannonjf

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 07:16 AM

Tortos Heroic macro:

/target Humming Crystal
/cast Moonfire
/targetlasttarget

All you need to do is face the closest crystal and you can just hit the macro to refresh your crystal shell. This is an improvement over having a crystal on focus as you may be too far away from it when the time to refresh your Crystall Shell debuff comes.


Crystals are a bit sensative to actually being facing right at them fyi. Be careful until you are comfortable with it. Super annoying fight too, not looking forward to it again next week.

#34 Furial

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Posted 24 March 2013 - 01:52 PM

I doubt mooncat is worthwhile if you don't have an equal ilvl Feral weapon, especially since the melee maze gives you a lot of opportunities to stand still and cast, though obviously if anyone has numbers that say anything to the contrary, feel free to chime in.

We should test if Faerie Fire works on the Humming Crystals, because that removes any facing requirement whatsoever on that encounter.


Confirmed, both Faerie Fire and Faerie Swarm are giving the crystal shell debuff.

Tested this standing near a crystal (to make sure the macro would target the intended one) and facing away from it, great suggestion.

EDIT: Additionally, I hope this can be of use:

Horridon - Wild Charge can be very useful when you're targeted for a Charge. Positioning on this ability is key to ensure the raid doesn't get hit by Double Swipe, especially on heroic difficulty. You can either turn 180º and use it, make a macro to cancel your moonkin aura and /cast [target=YourTank] Wild Charge to get to him quickly or use Displacer Beast if you don't mind spending an extra GCD going back to Moonkin.

#35 Lauser

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 07:54 AM

For Ji-Kun it might also make sense to spec into Wild Charge.

- Avoid Caw with a jump backward/sideways
- Charge the boss during downdraft

For Tortos I believe it's invaluable to be aware of your own shield status. Two rejuvs will almost charge the shield up full, which lessens the burden on your healers.
The dogtag i was using was something like [(Stack / maxVal):Round:Percentage], to get a nice percentage value of the shield.

#36 Lazerdollarz

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 11:56 PM

Updating OP with new information.

I'm really not sure why you'd want to use Wild Charge for anything this tier, especially considering how powerful Displacer Beast is right now. If you find it useful, that's fine, but at this point I can't think of any situation where DB couldn't fill a niche that WC would, and I see WC as by far the weakest option in the tier.

The macro we want for Tortos is then:
#showtooltip
/tar Humming Crystal
/use Faerie Fire
/targetlasttarget

#37 Depressia

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 12:22 AM

whether it makes sense to keep 100%uptime of 2 dots on the second head of megera for more instant starsurge?

#38 gannonjf

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:37 AM

Rank 24 on Megara says yes.

#39 Lazerdollarz

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 01:56 AM

Obviously padding damage on a worthless secondary target would yield a higher rank compared to doing single target DPS the entire time, regardless of whether or not you're actually increasing your primary target DPS. However, with 2T15 and roughly 35% crit under raid buffs, I think we've reached the point where it is in fact a single target damage increase to DoT the secondary target and spam Starsurge procs into the kill target.

#40 gannonjf

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:35 AM

Don't hate on the padding, machine gun SS is very entertaining. =)




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