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[5.4 Combat] I'm Not Dead Yet


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#161 Elbereth

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 03:01 PM

From above post, better to use Shadowcraft to find which offhand is better. I think going with higher ilvl item is the way to go.



#162 frigginwizard

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 09:39 PM

Firstly, on the Combat and Rotation page under the stat weights it says "7.5% Hit > 7.5% Expertise > 2x Haste > Agility > Haste > Mastery > Crit" - I don't know if I'm completely missing something but I can't figure out what "2x haste" is referring to. 
 

 

It has to do with item budget. One point of agi is worth more than one point of haste, but in wows item budget haste gets 2 times the stat of agi. For example, agi gems add 160 agi, whereas haste gems add 320 haste. So if you could pick either the haste gem is better. That being said, decisions are rarely that straight forward, and you should be using shadowcraft to make your gear decisions. 

 

 

Secondly, I notice that these posts are from 6 months ago, but on the Combat and Rotation page it states "Always use a slow(2.6s speed) mainhand and that 1.8 and 2.6 weapons were close for offhands" while a few posts up frigginwizard said: 

 

So, does the Combat and Rotation page need to be changed to include that 1.8 daggers are no longer viable as OH weapons due to changes in recent tier? or did frigginwizard just make a mistake.

I did not make a mistake. Slow weapons are marginally better than fast ones. This is no way implies that a dagger in the OH is not viable, simply that it is not ideal.

 

That being said, the context matters a lot here. I wasn't just making a general statement about fast vs slow, I was responding to someone asking about weapon swapping in combat(and even quoted them to establish context). 



#163 nordveien

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 09:41 PM

The guide is correct. The guy saying that weapon swapping is not required is also right. See guide:

OFFHAND ONLY: 1.8s daggers, and 2.6s axe/fist/sword/mace are exceptionally close in performance. However, 2.6s weapons appear to have a fraction of a % of an advantage. Try to keep a 1.8s dagger around for when you can't use Killing Spree optimally. Because of their racial passive, orc rogues should always use a 2.6s offhand if it's a fist weapon or axe and they also use a fist weapon or axe as their mainhand.

 

x2 haste means that you're comparing Haste x2 to Agility x1 when making gemming choices. Gems contain twice the secondary stat compared to the amount of main stat. Say, when Haste x2 > Agi, that means you should use "80 Agi + 160 Haste" gem for red socket instead of "160 Agi" gem (this is under assumption that you should always go for socket bonuses, which in case of Combat and this tier is virtually always true).


Edited by nordveien, 24 February 2014 - 09:48 PM.


#164 Twoboxer

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Posted 24 February 2014 - 11:30 PM

. . . 2 pts haste > 1 point AGI > 1 pt Haste > etc



#165 eli371

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Posted 25 February 2014 - 06:32 PM

Thanks all for the replies and thanks for clearing that up frigginwizard. I'm starting to mess with shadowcraft now. Once again I greatly appreciate all the responses.

 



#166 Zekyu

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 05:14 PM

Regarding the BiS table, considering this tier is going to be over a year old by the time WoD comes out, giving many of us an opportunity to actually achieve full BiS, wouldn't it be better to use Garrosh belt/spoils boots instead of the pieces currently listed.

 

Reforing export: Head: MasteryRating -> HitRating

Back: CritRating -> HitRating
Chest: MasteryRating -> ExpertiseRating
Wrists: MasteryRating -> ExpertiseRating
Hands: MasteryRating -> ExpertiseRating
Waist: CritRating -> MasteryRating
Legs: CritRating -> HitRating
Feet: MasteryRating -> ExpertiseRating
Ring1: ExpertiseRating -> HasteRating
Ring2: MasteryRating -> HitRating
MainHand: CritRating -> MasteryRating
OffHand: CritRating -> HitRating
 
With Seismic bore this comes to 405244 DPS as a troll with all raid buffs except receiving tricks on CD/tricksing on CD. Also, there is a ~100 dps difference for Spoils weapons.
 
EDIT: Since apparently I don't know how to link a specific gear set in shadowcraft.
 
2nd Edit: See if this link works Combat BiS

Edited by Zekyu, 10 April 2014 - 09:19 PM.


#167 frigginwizard

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 07:06 PM

Gear snapshots are stored to your local machine. All that link does is show is the gear you are currently wearing.


Edited by frigginwizard, 10 April 2014 - 07:07 PM.


#168 daredd

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 08:21 AM

Hi I am currently sitting on 17.1k haste and find myself capped on energy more times than I can count specially during pretty much every cd I use KS/AR ( not to mention at the start with BL). So basically my question here is, has anyone tried going for a lower haste build ( switching some haste gems to agility ones to lower the energy cap situation)? Would that be a dps increase since wasted energy would me wasted dps? Or does the haste, although capped, still overcome with the melee swings a more agility base build? If so is there a "haste cap" to overcome the cap issues I assume everyone with high gear encounters?

 

Pls share your thoughts or experience.



#169 Nevernite

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 02:06 PM

Even if energy capping haste benefit is still greater than what crit or mastery offer.(oh wow misread that question)


Edited by Nevernite, 02 May 2014 - 09:28 AM.

don't mind the massive amounts of typos and grammar mistakes followed by edits


#170 Flukz

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 10:26 PM

Near or at bis gemming for haste or agi will sim very close. If you're gear is a bit lower just stick with haste.



#171 dommy

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:12 PM

I was curious if anyone has given any thought to using the subterfuge talent instead of shadow focus as combat.

 

With the amount of haste we have around 585ilvl (62%+), we can easily sneak in two Ambushes using this talent even at their full 60 energy cost.  You can either use both Ambushes back to back and then give yourself a 4CP SnD off the pull, or you can go Ambush > SnD > Ambush for a slightly faster SnD.  This also reduces the time that we're energy capped for those of us going immediately into KS after SnD to benefit from double trinket procs.

 

The downside of this would be that in order to get the two Ambushes once we're in combat (offensive vanishing), we'd have to pool energy to essentially the cap, and everyone knows this is never a good thing. 

 

If, however, the primary reason we've been using shadow focus this whole time was for its essentially free damage and 2CP during combat (as opposed to its utility at the pull), then subterfuge probably does come out much more weakly.

 

Thoughts?



#172 frigginwizard

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 04:35 PM

Ambush doesn't add bandits guile stacks, I haven't been using it at all anymore so I can get to the first level of insight faster and complete a KS while my initial Horroms proc is still up.  

As for using is during combat, I have no idea if it would be worth it.


Edited by frigginwizard, 11 July 2014 - 04:38 PM.


#173 Nevernite

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Posted 12 July 2014 - 12:34 AM

Shadowstalker -> +50% Eviscerate, anyone?


don't mind the massive amounts of typos and grammar mistakes followed by edits


#174 Ieyasu

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:26 AM

I realize I'm late to this party, but can someone explain why Shadowcraft is simming Korven's Crimson Crescent normal 4/4 higher than HS razor? I know having a slow OH is ideal, but so much so that it outpaces +299 haste and +60 agi w/ same base damage? I'm getting a 2k dps increase from the crescent. That sound right? If so, can someone explain the crafting behind that? 



#175 Ondersjaak

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 09:46 AM

I realize I'm late to this party, but can someone explain why Shadowcraft is simming Korven's Crimson Crescent normal 4/4 higher than HS razor? I know having a slow OH is ideal, but so much so that it outpaces +299 haste and +60 agi w/ same base damage? I'm getting a 2k dps increase from the crescent. That sound right? If so, can someone explain the crafting behind that? 

 

The discussion of slow VS fast off-hand is merely a trade-off between higher killing spree damage (slow off-hand) VS higher poison damage (fast off-hand). Normally, in a fight where killing spree can be used properly, a slow off-hand would already be slightly ahead because the benefit on killing spree is larger than the benefit on poisons (note: on a fight where killing spree can't be used well, a slow off-hand would probably be better). However, the current 4-set bonus, which increases killing spree damage, further pushes the balance towards slow off-hands. This is likely the reason your Crimson Crescent sims so high.






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