Jump to content


Photo

[MoP] Beastmastery 5.4


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
117 replies to this topic

#101 Effinhunter

Effinhunter

    Piston Honda

  • • Guide Author
  • 158 posts

Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:42 PM

Forgive me, but I'm not seeing where crit is better than haste even with the BiS T16 gear. Taking your troll BiS listing (which reforges TED mastery > haste instead of mastery > crit, as would be expected per stat priorities) and swapping that one crit gem for a haste one results in a DPS bump in SimC. Is it just in FD where crit > haste? I cannot for the life of me replicate your results in SimC.

Please don't eat me alive -- I recently switched from a mage and am new to hunter theorycrafting.


For hunters, there is no perfect stat that you can invest everything in and universally say this stat > that stat in all cases. Blizzard's changes or lack of changes to core hunter mechanics have resulted in mastery, haste, and crit synergizing well with each other and no one stat being completely dominant (this was slightly different in ToT because of RPPM mechanics and hunter RPPM trinkets when haste was much more powerful than the others). Additionally, we have shown, since MoP Beta, that pairing two stats together causes the most dps per point invested. Currently, at end of MoP, those two stats that pair together well are crit and haste. This means that small changes to crit or haste are likely to augment each other in different ways.

Similarly, there are points in your reforging where mastery will provide more dps than crit or haste. Your best bet is to simulate your gear in Simcraft or Femaledwarf.com. Simcraft and FD will disagree on final numbers, and you've seen that with your slight changes to the current FD BiS profiles. Part of this is due to the raid buffs that are defaults in SimC (banners, totems, etc.) However, you are on the right track by using SimC as it is the most accurate for modeling most hunter mechanics.

Crit >= haste > mastery is the recommended overall reforging strategy. In other words, your crit and haste are mostly identical in final investment (e.g. 14k crit and 12k haste), and as with all hunter stats, the two synergize and boost each other. Crit >= haste > mastery is also recommended due to the priority working well with SV and since Crit ~ Haste in most BM profiles, going Crit >= haste > mastery serves most hunters well in switching between SV and BM.

Haste >= crit > mastery will work better if you plan on using MM as your secondary, rather than SV.

#102 Effinhunter

Effinhunter

    Piston Honda

  • • Guide Author
  • 158 posts

Posted 07 January 2014 - 08:23 PM

Added information about the 5.4.2 hotfix, which should buff all hunter specs by 5-7% dps. You can read more about the hotfix here (35% AotH instead of 25%).

 

Edit: BTW, I'm updating the female dwarf sim rankings, but the current BiS is undergoing major changes in stat evaluations (right now, I'm simming higher dps with haste > master == crit than the old crit > haste > mastery). As with all such changes, this BiS list is likely to undergo several iterations. For now, the Troll profile I have is ~300 dps higher than Orc.

 

T16H BM Warforged DPS Troll: 400434.52 dps

T16H BM Warforged DPS Orc: 400073.16 dps

 

The dps profiles are saved to the same location (the post isn't letting me edit in links). I'll repost the current list after I get done tweaking. However, if you have found better profiles, please let me know!!!


Edited by Effinhunter, 07 January 2014 - 09:13 PM.


#103 Effinhunter

Effinhunter

    Piston Honda

  • • Guide Author
  • 158 posts

Posted 10 January 2014 - 04:50 PM

Special thanks to Frozenhawk for a tweaked BM Orc profile that is +800 dps to push it slightly above the Troll profile on FD:

 

T16H BM Warforged DPS Orc: 400,866.79 dps

T16H BM Warforged DPS Troll: 400,434.52 dps

 

I'm going to tweak the profiles to see if we can up those any more. If you find better ones, please let us know!



#104 Effinhunter

Effinhunter

    Piston Honda

  • • Guide Author
  • 158 posts

Posted 12 January 2014 - 05:37 PM

An increase of 30 dps was found by Frozenhawk for the Orc profile by swapping non-tier legs for non-tier chest and reforging a bit.

 

T16H BM Warforged DPS Orc: 400,891.05 dps

 

BTW, Frozenhawk also found out why Simcraft is greatly overvaluing our current dps on Simulationcraft.org. The profile for hunters is currently ilvl 588, which is impossible for current content. This is being accomplished by setting custom ilvls on the items to 580 and then upgrading twice. This doesn't make sense and the results should be discarded. The highest ilvl possible should be 572 with upgrade set to 2 and then heroic tier, which is 566, with 2 possible upgrades.

 

Consequently, we're being compared to other classes with an average +8 ilvl over them.

 

Special thanks to Frozenhawk for looking into that.



#105 NoGoal

NoGoal

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 64 posts

Posted 20 January 2014 - 04:29 PM

T16H BM Warforged DPS Orc: 400,866.79 dps

Changing the weapon in this profile for HC WF Hand Cannon gets me to 400987.90 Can't check Frozenhawk's profile since the link redirects to this thread.

 

Not sure why you picked the longbow since Hand Cannon has more secondary stats.


Edited by NoGoal, 20 January 2014 - 04:29 PM.


#106 Effinhunter

Effinhunter

    Piston Honda

  • • Guide Author
  • 158 posts

Posted 21 January 2014 - 06:11 PM

Do you have a link to the new profile so I can make any reforges available for others to play with?

 

I switched to Bow because I found an intermediate profile that gave higher FD values. You know how this goes. Because of the haste calculations in FD, you can see jumps of 500-2.5k dps for small haste changes.



#107 Thotor

Thotor

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 1 posts

Posted 22 January 2014 - 03:07 PM

Using that latest version of SimC directly from their repo , Cannon ( 422 807 dps ) parse higher than Longbow ( 421 414 dps )

http://www.ttermeer....er_T16H_WF.html



#108 NoGoal

NoGoal

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 64 posts

Posted 30 January 2014 - 03:49 PM

Do you have a link to the new profile so I can make any reforges available for others to play with?

 

I switched to Bow because I found an intermediate profile that gave higher FD values. You know how this goes. Because of the haste calculations in FD, you can see jumps of 500-2.5k dps for small haste changes.

I get 401005 dps with just changing the bow to hand cannon. No reforges.

 

Saved profile at http://www.femaledwa...etting_id=20325



#109 Effinhunter

Effinhunter

    Piston Honda

  • • Guide Author
  • 158 posts

Posted 01 February 2014 - 05:38 PM

I've updated the public profile to those settings, in case people are refreshing that one.

 

Also, I've added notes on the 2+ AoE rotations. The 2 target rotation is a bit different now after the 5.4 hotfix (25%->35% AotH) and Multi-shot should be used in place of an Arcane Shot in order to keep Beast Cleave up. You can read a bit of recent discussion about this topic here.

 

I'm still trying to figure out exactly where or what items result in a recommended switch from crit>haste to haste>mastery>crit. Is it just HWF TED or what is the most discernable difference here? It's definitely not all 570+ profiles or even 575+ profiles. I can simply note that the change happens at some point during the range of heroic raiding profiles, but I'm sure people would appreciate some focused watermarks.



#110 Effinhunter

Effinhunter

    Piston Honda

  • • Guide Author
  • 158 posts

Posted 11 February 2014 - 04:20 PM

Frozenhawk at MMO Champ has managed to find a better Orc profile, clocking in at 402,462 dps. The offset piece was shifted to the HWF Chest, and reforges are more heavily haste to result in haste > mastery > crit by a 15:9:7 ratio. I've updated the Troll profile to similarly use the chest piece, but I have a feeling we can tweak at least 1k more dps out of it. Let me know if you find the appropriate reforge/gear selections!

 

T16H BM Warforged DPS Orc: 402,462.25

T16H BM Warforged DPS Troll: 401,286.75

 

Edit: Updated troll profile with increase of 500 dps with reforges.


Edited by Effinhunter, 11 February 2014 - 05:19 PM.


#111 Effinhunter

Effinhunter

    Piston Honda

  • • Guide Author
  • 158 posts

Posted 12 February 2014 - 07:12 PM

Kibu managed to increase the Orc profile by over 1k dps! I've converted that profile over to Troll as well with a simple reforge of the shoulders to increase that profile by over 1.6k dps. So, we're back to less than 1k separation. Any other suggestions or improvements are highly appreciated!

 

T16H BM Warforged DPS Orc: 403,649.96
T16H BM Warforged DPS Troll: 402,888.37



#112 Effinhunter

Effinhunter

    Piston Honda

  • • Guide Author
  • 158 posts

Posted 17 February 2014 - 05:25 PM

Azortharion has uncovered another BiS Orc profile. I've also tweaked the troll profile up slightly.

 

T16H BM Warforged DPS Orc: ‚Äč404,634.49
T16H BM Warforged DPS Troll: 403,119.25



#113 hanamichi

hanamichi

    Glass Joe

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 30 March 2014 - 01:12 PM

Hello ,

is it normal that my TED doesn`t proc from pet attacks ? , in the last 3 weeks I kept having really bad procs of no more than 7% buff uptime on skada , trinket procs from deterrence , disengage , using healthstone or even getting hit while in combat , is any one having the same issues with it .

If the trinket is not proccing from pet attacks is it worth playing BM with harrom`s .

thank you .



#114 Effinhunter

Effinhunter

    Piston Honda

  • • Guide Author
  • 158 posts

Posted 07 April 2014 - 03:17 PM

Hello ,

is it normal that my TED doesn`t proc from pet attacks ? , in the last 3 weeks I kept having really bad procs of no more than 7% buff uptime on skada , trinket procs from deterrence , disengage , using healthstone or even getting hit while in combat , is any one having the same issues with it .

If the trinket is not proccing from pet attacks is it worth playing BM with harrom`s .

thank you .

 

TED once proc'd on any ability usage--including feign death and dismiss pet, which was humorous. I'm not currently using TED and instead use Haromm's, simply because my guild does not have H Siegecrafter down. For most player sims, TED is less than 1k dps above Haromm's. So, if you're having problems with proc rates on TED, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using Haromm's. It's a great trinket for both BM and SV.


Edited by Effinhunter, 07 April 2014 - 03:18 PM.

  • hanamichi likes this

#115 Mericet

Mericet

    Von Kaiser

  • Members
  • 91 posts

Posted 08 April 2014 - 03:06 PM

What exactly is the problem with it only procing from your attacks and not your pet's? If there is a time when your pet is able to attack but you are not, you wouldn't want it to proc then anyway because only your pet would benefit. You also aren't losing procs because your pet can't trigger it, it's an RPPM trinket. If you want us to figure out more you need to post logs.

 

It does still proc from pretty much anything you do while in combat including feign death, deterrence, dismiss pet, misdirection, and racial abilities like darkflight, among others. It's actually more than a little annoying, you need to be careful what you do if you aren't actually able to attack a target for a while.



#116 Effinhunter

Effinhunter

    Piston Honda

  • • Guide Author
  • 158 posts

Posted 05 May 2014 - 06:23 PM

As described by Azor on MMO Champ

 

non-troll haste breakpoints to try to hit with SoO gear for extra hits with Stampede

14743

17184

19625

 

You can hit these easier as a troll if you save Berserking for every Stampede.



#117 Effinhunter

Effinhunter

    Piston Honda

  • • Guide Author
  • 158 posts

Posted 22 May 2014 - 06:05 AM

First attempt at new BiS BM profiles:

Troll: 450,306.61 dps
Orc: 450,339.85 dps
Pandaren: 446,649.78 dps


Edited by Effinhunter, 22 May 2014 - 06:16 AM.


#118 Effinhunter

Effinhunter

    Piston Honda

  • • Guide Author
  • 158 posts

Posted 21 June 2014 - 03:59 AM

As was noted in the post on January 7th when profiles seemed to switch to haste > mastery == crit, the stat priority section needed some updating. With the 5.4.8 changes, the stat priority has drifted further to the left. You will get best results in BM with a haste > mastery > crit build in both simulators at this point, especially if you have a legendary meta gem. Even more so if you have the cloak proc and a RPPM trinket (TED, Haromm).






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users