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Mists of Pandaria 5.4.x Raid Mechanics


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#41 Psilocin

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 07:06 PM

Thok: CoS and Vanish will remove his fixate. This is actually pretty useful at times, especially if you get fixated twice in a row.

#42 Enzo90910

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:48 PM

Thok: CoS and Vanish will remove his fixate. This is actually pretty useful at times, especially if you get fixated twice in a row.


I guess you meant either CoS or Vanish and not both at the same time but could you confirm this?

#43 Kryptomaniac

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 09:51 PM

What exactly do you mean by "Vanish Immune"?


Im assuming hes referring to vanish immune as the fact that foul stream is not an instant, he targets you and then casts at you, and if you manage to vanish before the cast goes goes off, he won't be able to target you and will change targets to cast.

On normal this is whatever, but on heroic you should never EVER do this. This can wipe a raid depending on your strategy. For your strategy we kited haromm with nothing but heals a tank and 2 melee dps. So if one person got foul stream you would have to move. Then everyone else moves back and the opposite direction. If it changed targets that would fuck pretty much everyone there.

#44 Kryptomaniac

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 10:02 PM

it may also allow a Rogue to soak one crawler mine with a glyphed CloS (+ Elusiveness) for a ~450k hit. Probably not the best use of Cloak on the fight, but if your group needs it that badly...


I can confirm that yes Indeed glyph cloak works. I'm not 100% sure about the timing on it, but I do prefer to use it on the knockback so I can more or less negate all 3 knockbacks. But like you said, if its required, it is definitely doable.

#45 Ech1zen

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:59 AM

Shamans:
CoS and feint both work on foul stream.
CoS do not work to remove poison DoT from you or mitigate damage.
Fient can be used on stones to reduce damage if you can not aviod it.

#46 Khanda

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 05:20 AM

With around 550 ilvl you have hp / armor enough to soak a Crawler Mine as long as you are using Elusiveness and Glyph of Cloak of Shadows,

Details for Khanda - 19-09 21:06 - Rise Above - World of Logs

Details for Khanda - 19-09 21:06 - Rise Above - World of Logs

Note : World of Logs still cannot distinguish between normal and Heroic difficulty.The links above are from Heroic mode.

#47 Kryptomaniac

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 06:37 AM

Galakras:
- Feint, Feint/Elusiveness, & Glyphed Cloak of Shadows works on Muzzle Spray on Right side tower. Ability Knocks you back, and can shadowstep back onto the platform before falling.
- Feint, Feint/Elusiveness, & Glyphed Cloak of Shadows works on Arcing Smash on Left Side tower. Ability knocks you back, and can shadowstep back onto the platform before falling.
**Note, even though you can shadowstep back, I'd suggest not using personals to try and survive these abilities, because of the knockback off the tower.
- Feint, Feint/Elusiveness, & Glyphed Cloak of Shadows works on High Enforcer's Thranok "Skull Cracker".
- Cloak of Shadows works on Poison Cloud, Feint w/elusiveness also works.
- Feint/Elusiveness + Cloak works on deadly poison bolt volley.
- Glyphed Cloak works on Bombard inside the tower from demolisher. Not recommended due to the stun.
- Cloak of shadows removes Flames of Galakras stacking debuff. Can also immune the next application and the explosion damage. Best timed at 2-3 stacks as the next orb is about to hit.

**One really cool thing that I learned that helped immensely on heroic Galakras due to the fact that I was on tower duty. If you run off the edge of the right side tower, and sprint or rocket boots or glider off the right one, you can /target Anti-Air Cannon (i think thats the name) and shadowstep to it. @sorry for the long explanation, break it down how you see fit


Iron Juggernaut:
- Elusiveness & Glyphed Cloak works on Borer Drill.
- Cloak removes Laser Burn Debuff.
- Elusiveness works on Mortar Cannon (Need someone to test cloak)
**Crawler mines are extremely odd. I know for a fact that Glyph of Cloak Works. I'm not sure why it reacts oddly on occasion to cloak. If someone can take some time to really test out lots of soaking of mines and show some logs that would be appreciate.
- Elusiveness & Glyphed Cloak works on Ricochet. (NOT RECOMMENDED)
- Can cloak w/ or without elusiveness on Seismic Activity.
- Can shadowstep, cloak, then shadowstep Shock Pulse to negate the knockback each time.
- Mortar Barrage same as Mortar Cannon, just more hits going off in a small period.


Dark Shamans:
- Elusiveness works on Toxic Mist. Cloak does not work AT ALL, to immune application, damage, or remove the debuff.
- Elusiveness works on Ashen Wall. (need cloak to be tested)
- Can feint w/ or without Elusiveness on Iron Tombs popping out of the ground.
- Can cloak and feint Foul Stream damage. *Can technically vanish when foul stream is being casted on you to make him switch targets, not recommended on heroic AT ALL.*
- Elusiveness and cloak work on Toxic Storm and Toxic Tornado
- Can cloak Foul Geyser and Foulness.
- Can cloak Falling Ash. Make sure you time it just before the big rock hits the damaging circle on the ground.
- Iron Prison just pop a smoke bomb on yourself or Glyphed Cloak.

General Nazgrim:
- Elusiveness and Glyphed Cloak works on Bonecracker Ticking Debuff.
- Glyphed Cloak works on Heroic Shockwave
- Can cloak damage from Aftershock
- Feint works on Warcry, as well as Glyphed Cloak.
- Glyphed Cloak works on Ravager damage from standing in its radius.
- Can disarm Kor'kron Ironblades (wut do people still use this ability)?
- All adds are able to be stunned Via Kidney Shot and Gouge. Blind appears to not worked, will confirm upcoming reset.
- Can cloak Magistrike, both ticking damage and initial burst damage.
- Can use fan of knives to break Kor'kron Assassin's initial stealth.
- Can evasion backstab and fixate mechanic from the Assassin.
- Can glyphed cloak damage from Shoot and Multi-shot. Evasion to tested on Shoot.

#48 Kryptomaniac

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 06:38 AM

With around 550 ilvl you have hp / armor enough to soak a Crawler Mine as long as you are using Elusiveness and Glyph of Cloak of Shadows,

Details for Khanda - 19-09 21:06 - Rise Above - World of Logs

Details for Khanda - 19-09 21:06 - Rise Above - World of Logs

Note : World of Logs still cannot distinguish between normal and Heroic difficulty.The links above are from Heroic mode.


Just for clarification for other readers. this is 25 man logs, which means this is fully applicable to both 10 and 25 man, as the damage is different on both.

#49 Psilocin

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 05:02 PM

General Nazgrim:
- Elusiveness and Glyphed Cloak works on Bonecracker Ticking Debuff.
- Glyphed Cloak works on Heroic Shockwave
- Can cloak damage from Aftershock
- Feint works on Warcry, as well as Glyphed Cloak.
- Glyphed Cloak works on Ravager damage from standing in its radius.
- Can disarm Kor'kron Ironblades (wut do people still use this ability)?
- All adds are able to be stunned Via Kidney Shot and Gouge. Blind appears to not worked, will confirm upcoming reset.
- Can cloak Magistrike, both ticking damage and initial burst damage.
- Can use fan of knives to break Kor'kron Assassin's initial stealth.
- Can evasion backstab and fixate mechanic from the Assassin.
- Can glyphed cloak damage from Shoot and Multi-shot. Evasion to tested on Shoot.


I don't know if someone else mentioned this before, but you can Dismantle the Assassins which helps with their backstab. I believe if you dismantle the Ironblades, they still spin (I thought I saw this someone on here but maybe another forum?).

#50 Kryptomaniac

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 05:14 PM

I don't know if someone else mentioned this before, but you can Dismantle the Assassins which helps with their backstab. I believe if you dismantle the Ironblades, they still spin (I thought I saw this someone on here but maybe another forum?).


This is correct, my apologies for missing this. I can confirm the fact that the ironblade's do continue to spin. As to whether or they not they are just doing the visual or the damage is actually place is another question. I'll try and that as well.

#51 13a5ti

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Posted 23 September 2013 - 05:47 PM

General:
If you want to maximize your DPS I suggest the following two macros:
Spoiler

Malkorok (9)
- CoS works on Breath of Y'Shaarj
Heroic
- I recommend Burst of Speed, if you have to soak Imploding Energy. It removes Languish (the slow) for 0.5-1s
- CoS works on Essence of Y'Shaarj. If you are an Engineer, I recommend the following macro:
/use 6
/cast Burst of Speed
/cast Cloak of Shadows
press it once and run through as many orbs as you can (Burst of Speed and Nitro Boosts stack (=425% run speed))

#52 Hntr

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 04:01 PM

On Iron juggernaut only glyphed CoS (so without elusiveness) is enough to soak a mine, but you take like 510k to 540k damage. (at ilvl 547 this took me to low health (~10%), but didn't proc cheat death.).
Tested on 25m normal

#53 Boomslang

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Posted 24 September 2013 - 05:31 PM

using Glyphed CoS and Feint + Elusiveness I soaked mines with little issue in 25man normal. Will keep a closer eye on my health this week when I soak them again to make sure I don't have any external dmg reduc stuff on me.

[20:59:06.785] Unknown Engulfed Explosion Boomslang 276744 (A: 87668)
[21:01:00.895] Unknown Engulfed Explosion Boomslang 358075
[21:02:14.259] Unknown Engulfed Explosion Boomslang 526922
[21:03:13.892] Unknown Engulfed Explosion Boomslang 328270 (A: 39751)
[21:04:02.241] Unknown Engulfed Explosion Boomslang 368663
[21:05:53.034] Unknown Engulfed Explosion Boomslang 514296

On Iron juggernaut only glyphed CoS is enough to soak a mine, but you take like 530k damage. (at ilvl 547 this took me to low health (~10%), but didn't proc cheat death.).
Tested on 25m normal



#54 nordveien

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 07:32 AM

Did anyone have problems clicking on a Crawler Mine on Juggernaut?

So far I've never been able to "mount" one and soak. I'm standing next to one and clicking on that little green arrow, and nothing happens. I believe it says "Immune", although not sure this text wasn't caused by something else...
I certainly didn't have Cloak buff on me before trying to jump on one, in general was not doing anything unusual. And at least visually I didn't see anyone else jumping on it.

Can it have something to do with timing? Any particular moment it should be clicked?
Wondering what could this be about: Crawler Mine Immunity - Spell - World of Warcraft

#55 Boomslang

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Posted 25 September 2013 - 03:15 PM

one of my guildies was complaining about the same thing last night. He said he had the arrow but trying to right click did nothing. Not sure if there is a mechanic in place or possibly a UI bug of some kind?

Did anyone have problems clicking on a Crawler Mine on Juggernaut?

So far I've never been able to "mount" one and soak. I'm standing next to one and clicking on that little green arrow, and nothing happens. I believe it says "Immune", although not sure this text wasn't caused by something else...
I certainly didn't have Cloak buff on me before trying to jump on one, in general was not doing anything unusual. And at least visually I didn't see anyone else jumping on it.

Can it have something to do with timing? Any particular moment it should be clicked?
Wondering what could this be about: Crawler Mine Immunity - Spell - World of Warcraft



#56 nordveien

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 04:27 PM

Malkorok
Can confirm that Cloak removes Displaced Energy without damaging the raid. Can provide logs if required.

Heroic Protectors
I'm baffled by the info on tanking Embodied Anguish provided earlier. According to logs, it melees for 5-10k, even on heroic; the main portion of its damage is magical and comes from Mark of Anguish. Thus, Evasion, Combat Readiness or Glyph of CoS should have little to do with tanking it. The only things that helps are Cloak and Elusiveness.

Shadow Weakness still stacks for the duration of Cloak, but it does no damage on its own and only increases damage taken from Mark of Anguish, from which Cloak grants immunity (it also reduces armor, but with melee hits like that I'm inclined to ignore this effect unless it's applied to a tank). According to logs, it works exactly the same for other classes with immunities (for instance a hunter with Deterrence), Mark of Anguish is immued for 5 seconds, Shadow Weakness still stacks.

So my question is, are rogues just as good a class to tank Embodied Anguish like any other class with immunities/strong personals, or am I missing something?



#57 Fivehands

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:03 PM

For Heroic Protectors, Feint with Elusiveness is sufficient to soak the first 5 seconds or so of Mark of Anguish. You can then pop CoS and prepare to pass it to another soaker before CoS ends. So if you know your position in the tanking order, you can have Feint pre-cast and running when you get Mark and have plenty of leeway for using Cloak. I've actually gone longer than 5 seconds without using CoS but I'm pretty sure my healers were not happy about it.

#58 Psilocin

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 05:07 PM

A few on the Paragons:

Hisek's multi-shot can be evaded, with the order we use (Hisek 4th to die), it actually helped a bit (It's typically my highest incoming damage). When Hisek casts AIM on you, you can actually Feint+Elu during the stun, and it will allow you to cast other things like CoS (Fire is also physical, might be able to evade it? Though I guess if you're splitting, you wouldn't want to). I'm 95% sure you still can't move though.

You can safely Cloak all of Xaril's injections, without damage to anyone, yellow will not drop a puddle etc...

Ka'roz's Caustic Amber cannot be Cloaked.

EDIT: Also, can you go more into: "Can shadowstep, cloak, then shadowstep Shock Pulse to negate the knockback each time" for Iron Juggernaut. Are you saying the knockback can be cloaked? And how are you using ST for it? It seems almost immediate and too fast to react to quick enough.

#59 Hiyori-Velen

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 06:19 PM

EDIT: Also, can you go more into: "Can shadowstep, cloak, then shadowstep Shock Pulse to negate the knockback each time" for Iron Juggernaut. Are you saying the knockback can be cloaked? And how are you using ST for it? It seems almost immediate and too fast to react to quick enough.


Yes, the knockback can be cloaked - use it just before he completes the casting time for Shock Pulse.

You use ST just as he finishes casting Shock Pulse. Just start spamming ST after he casts it, you should get used to the timing quickly enough.

#60 jsz

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 10:14 PM

Shock Pulse on Iron Juggernaut definitely can be negated with a well-timed Shadowstep, but probably not on higher latency.

Garrosh Hellscream: You can (possibly) negate getting pulled into the heart by being in the middle of Killing Spree when you get sucked in. Definitely happened to one of our rogues on 25man, not sure if it was a fluke that we attributed to Killing Spree or a reproducable event, but he was definitely able to not get sucked in and have free dps time on adds that are still killable but do not attack you back, etc




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